Michigan Votes Forum

 Wow about a constitutional amendment that would make Michigan a Rigth To Work state? Screw the unions.

That would leave out federal employees, since they don't have bargaining rights for wages and other work conditions.  Why should state employees have a right that is not the same for all workers.  This seems to be a method to install card check.  Nice going.

Sounds like a great way to make sure that those companies that haven't already left Michigan will pack up and go to a business friendly state.  It's no surprise that it would be Genesee County Representatives pushing this type of legistlation.  I guess the unemployment rate still isn't high enough for them in the Flint area. 

All employers that have a collective bargaining agreement with their employees should be required to bargain with their union.

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Is this what you want?  I didn't think so! 

http://biggovernment.com/mikeflynn/2011/12/13/union-disenfranchises-workers-in-contract-vote/

or this:  This is your typical Union thugs that Barack Obama caters to.  From "Little 
Jimmy" Hoffa and his SOB remarks about the Tea Party and Republicans 
to Maxine Waters and even the Vice President of the United States we are 
wittnessing the complete assault and harassment on American citizens who do not 
agree with Unions or liberal/progressive, entitlement, ideology and tactics.
  
1.  Union goons:   http://weaselzippers.us/2011/09/09/video-union-goon-of-the-day/
  
2.  Jimmy Hoffa:  http:/www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/09/05/jimmy_hoffa_at_obama_event_on_gop_lets_take_these_son_of_bitches_out.html  

3.  The Hoffa effect:   http://moonbattery.com/?p=2032

 .................and then we have this from our elected representatives:
  
These are "all" Barack Obama supporters.  He has not said one word to 
curb this type of hate speech.
 
  
Maxine Waters:  
http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/2011/08/kerosene-maxine-tea-party-go-hell 
  
Andre Carson:  
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/08/rep-andre-carson-tea-party-wants-to-see-blacks-hanging-on-a-tree/
  
Joe Biden:  
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/09/biden_equates_tea_party_gop_with_barbarians.html

I support this bill. All employers that have a collective bargaining agreement with their employees should be required to bargain with their union.

 .....but not to use "extortion" as a means of getting a contract.  Boeing Airlines and the NLRB are just another good example.  2013..............It's over.  Unions............the whole country will go "Right to Work".

If you mean going on strike is extortion, for one, the law doesn't view it as such, and if it did, locking out would also be extortion.

I doubt it is ever "over", as long as working men and women demand a fair wage and safe place to work.

 Yes Extortion.........as with the UAW and "pattern agreements" that were used.  One company doesn't have the sales and revenues to meet their bottom line, yet the UAW demands the same agreement as the other companies, thus pitting or wip-sawing the companies to give in to these outrageous demands.  Thus........bankruptcies!  If you argue otherwise then the Kool_aid must be stronger than we all thought.

It's not Kool-aid I'm drinking, it's truth serum. The truth is the UAW contracts were not the reason the auto companies went bankrupt. Bad management, poor attention to quality, competition from the Asian automakers, and an ingrained hubris caused their demise. The UAW constantly worked with the companies to adjust their contracts to the reality of the markets. May I suggest you take a shot or two of truth serum and see if it doesn't taste better than the overly sweetened pablum you get from Fox noise. Warning though. Take it in small doses at first. It may be a shock to your system.

 Gypsy....you are entirely wrong again on the UAW and the contracts.  Making things up and then getting people to believe are two different items.  Your batting .500 on this one because the UAW did have something to do with the bankruptcies.  I know all about this because I was involved.  Pattern agreements with the big three did NOT let the companies "adjust" like you "mis-stated again".  I do see that you mentioned Asian automakers which you did not in a different post.  Hypocrite or just lost for words of acknowledgement?  You really need to get your head out of your as_ and take a deep breath because your knowledge of the UAW is not your biggest assest to say the least.

You may claim to be a business man and now claim to be "involved" in the auto companies bankruptcies, but I for one have a hard time believing anyone with such a lack of knowledge and civility could possibly attain any position of importance. If you are going to make claims about your personel involvment, state your legal name. I don't recall reading about anyone named "tatersalad" being involved in the auto companies bankruptcy procedures.

The pattern bargaining method used by both the companies and the unions worked for many years, and when the Asian auto industry threatened market share of American auto makers, the UAW offered concessions and longer contracts. These are facts, not right wing talking points. The UAW did not have control however, over quality and product development, or business decisions like GM buying Hummer and other poor decisions. These are also facts.

 gypsy................you have absolutely NO room to even talk about stating names, That one you have seems to lead all of us to believe that you are using Michigan as a summer residence and have multiple residences like most Public Union members have while claiming they are broke and over burdened on expenses.  Typical liberal occupier that whines while enjoying taxpayer funded entitlements.

As for the UAW:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hhJ_49leBw

As for involvement:   http://mansfieldtransitioncenter.com/web_documents/UAW-GM_2009_Modifications.pdf.pdf

I have the same amount of room on this forum to express my opinions as any Michigan taxpayer has. You may speculate to your hearts content on my occupation, residency, or union membership, but my opinions stand on their own, and don't need my identity, as you feel yours do, to withstand scrutiny.

My opinion is, I support this bill. If employees have organized into a union to bargain collectively with their employer for wages, benefits and working conditions, employers should be required to respect that and bargain with them.

 ..

 Yes you are right!  Employers have to bargain with Unions and also to settle grievances.  Here is a very good example why business's do not want to relocate to this state because of BS just like this:

 .

Inside the liberal mind.  Liberals do have a conception of what is good and what is bad.  The problem is........they apply it "Backbards"!

http://moonbattery.com/?p=6948

 Gypsy...I'm a betting man I'll bet you a good cigar and  a bottle of Jack Daniels that you are or were UAW transplant worker. Why?  The street called employees "Gypsies" because they moved from plant to plant when they closed down so they could get their 30 years in for retirement.  Am I correct?  Answer this question please:  The placement of these workers to other plants kept them and their families out of bankruptcy.  The bigger problem that occured was the fact that GM, Chrysler and Ford were  forced into bankruptcies in the end because of the bloated contracts. Why?  Because the unions did not want to compress legacy costs and the executives at the highest levels didn't want to give up their big bonus's and jets.  Look at Detroit right now...........same thing.  No one wants to face the actual problems............legacy costs!

 Bad corporate decisions???  I'll give you a "little" of that argument but not a "pass"!  Lets see!  Bad corporate decisions on all three companies that have Union contracts???  Yeah, right!  These companies must have had "ALL" bad executives with your argument.  You my friend..............have been what we call........indoctrinated!  Sad, but true.  With your arguments, the teaching institutions that you and your liberal scholars are behind (with public Unions) and producing these bad management types in charge of GM, Ford & Chrysler were the problem then.  Liberals always blame someone but in these cases.............your blaming is running out and there is no one to blame but yourselves now! 

In the Introduction to this series of articles, I stated that a disturbing number of young Americans find socialism not just acceptable when compared with the free market, but an attractive system.  One can only hope that their misguided worldview is the result of not knowing the truth about socialism.  This is a truth all Americans should know because socialism is destructive of freedom and prosperity and because socialism is where President Obama and his fellow travelers on the left want to take America.  To those who argue that President Obama is a statist not a socialist, my response is always the same: statism is to socialism what the acorn is to the oak.  Since this is the case and since most Americans who attended public schools and colleges were instructed by teachers who either subscribed to liberal orthodoxy or who felt coerced to toe the liberal line, it is necessary to this series on socialism at the beginning: with a definition.

When defined strictly from an economic perspective, socialism is a centrally-planned economy in which the government controls the means of production and distribution and seeks to make people economically and socially equal by taking from those who have more and giving to those who have less.  This so-called redistribution of wealth—one of President Obama’s favorite concepts—is done without any consideration of the merits of those who benefit from it or the rights of those hurt by it.  However, defining socialism as just an economic system is like defining terminal cancer as just an illness.  Socialism is more than an economic system.  It is part of a broader worldview in which the state is god and the power of government is used to take from the more productive members of society and give to the less productive (forced redistribution of wealth).  Think of President Obama’s constant attacks on the wealthy and continual demands that they pay more in taxes.  I begin in this article with an explanation of the economic aspects of socialism.  I explain the worldview aspects of socialism in a subsequent article.

Writing for the Library of Economics and Liberty, Robert Heilbroner, a socialist for most his life before seeing the light, describes socialism as “…the tragic failure of the twentieth century.”  Originally envisioned as a remedy for the perceived defects of capitalism, socialism has failed dismally everywhere it has been tried.  Writing about socialism’s history of failure, Helibroner says:  “…it has far surpassed capitalism in both economic malfunction and moral cruelty.  Yet the idea and the ideal of socialism linger on.  Whether socialism in some form will eventually return as a major organizing force in human affairs is unknown, but no one can accurately appraise its prospects who has not taken into account the dramatic story of its rise and fall.”

This is the problem with the American left.  Its members continually proclaim the supposed benefits of socialism—a system few of them have ever experienced first-hand—while enjoying the proven benefits of economic freedom and the free-market.  This is hypocrisy at its worst.  Socialism is a concept that works only in theory.  It quickly breaks down when subjected to the reality of human nature.

TaterSalad:

These companies must have had "ALL" bad executives with your argument. 

 Ford had a smarter CFO because he anticipated the downward spiral in the socialist economy that was coming and the Union demands.  Investments of their "futures" saved them from having to "bow" to the messiah Obama.  Remeber when Cong. Brad Sherman asked Fords CEO, Allen Mulalhey about his yearly compensation.  Allen said "He was OK".  Another words..........but out of our business.  Had it not been for FoMoCo, all three companies would have been owned by the communist in charge.  No more Mustangs, no more corvettes and no more Vipers if that would have happened. Ford was there at the table because "all" of the second and third tier suppliers are enter-twined and if one of them goes down, they all go down.  Can you understand now gypsy-moth?

 Here is an article that all liberal/progressive Kool-Aid drnikers out there who think they are so intelligent and know it all.  Read this and then tell us all what your plans are for the future. You are being scammed and used like a wet towel by the Party of Food Stamps!

http://www.westernjournalism.com/bill-maher-admits-his-audience-are-brainwashed-liberals/