Michigan Votes Forum

Introduced in the House on February 22, 2011

Click here to view bill details.

Kill the bill.

 Dave although you come up with some great legislation I do not like this one. Just make it so these employees are not threatened by the MEA if they do not want to join the union. Bus drivers and food service workers are part time and do not make that much money. Most food service workers are moms with kids in school. They work great hours so they can be home when their kids leave for school and when they get home. They have the same days off as their kids so there is no need for childcare. Please rethink this one.

 OUCH!  I feel the pain already!  Snyder says, recreate...ie: create  jobs..easy to do if all you do is eliminate jobs of thousands of school employees so that a "new"  start up business can rehire some of us, if we're fortunate, at half the pay and no benefits or retirement.. and call these NEW jobs!  Why are they calling us out,  but leaving secretaries, grounds workers, maintenance, librarians, techies, recreation attendants and secretaries, etc.  While they're at it, why aren't they outsourcing admin services too?  Many of us have put in many years of service to our school district and take pride in our jobs.  In my school district the recreation department outsourced its' cleaning dept.  Their floors are filthy, their toilets are not clean.  In my county, some of the cleaning also has been outsourced.  The restrooms are filthy.  A neighboring school district privatized a few years ago and the teachers can tell you the school is not nearly as clean as before outsourcing to the lowest bid.  Some of their drawers have been rifled through, and things have come up missing.  Turnover is high.  When will they learn?  You get what you pay for!  Snyder and his cronies could just put a pay freeze in effect for a couple of years, raise the sales tax, put bottle deposit on bottled water, cut the next legislators pay to half of what is now is (after all, it is a part time job), change their insurance plans and pensions, turn the heat down in the Capitol, take away free postage and depend on e-mail and the mega calls for correspondence, outsource their own support staff...and the list goes on and on.  They should start in their own home before they try to change everyone elses.

I can understand the need for new bills and laws----but not this one.

It is my feelings that the local school board should have the right to operate the school district as is best for the community. Not all school districts have had such good experiences with private companies and there are some that have, but each one should have the right to decide and not be forced either way. I am sure this idea was suggested by one of the large companies like Chartwells. Chartwells is in business to make money and they do that at the schools districts expense. If a school districts food service dept is operated correctly, all the state programs are adhered to, food safety, labor hours and food costs and the cost to the students is kept low and the students eat nutritional meals, which is important if a student is going to retain what is presented in the classroom.

Allowing this bill to go to law would be a mistake--not only for the dedicated school employees but the kids and the entire state.

 I am a lunchlady in a small rural community that has been hit hard with the economy dropping out from under us. Our Food Service is self-op and totally supports itself. We have tried privitized companies in the past, but the last 5 years we have been self-op and have been in the "black".  It should be up to each indiviual district what works for them, not the States place to mandate schools to privatize any non-instructional services. Do not let this bill 4036 pass, it is not in the best interest of our State, Schools, and our
Communities. I hope you have the courage to stand up and fight for the lunchladies, custodians, and bus drivers of Michigan.

 

Privatization is a bad idea for our  community that is already struggling to survive and keep their heads above water.

admin:

Introduced in the House on February 22, 2011

Click here to view bill details.

 

This a terrible bill!  The legislators are mandating the working class out of their jobs!  The people who have these jobs are not living extravagantly.  They are living paycheck to paycheck.  They NEED their insurance and benefits.  Our school district privatized our custodial department last year.  They hired very few of our people and those that were hired were offered insurance by the private company, but it is so expensive that they can not afford it on the wages they receive from the company. Only 1 position with this company was full time, and that is only on school days.  All others are part time.  "We, the people", is no longer true.  Government is now the "We".  The people have no say anymore.  It is not right that our legislators, that we voted into office and are supposed to be representing us, are forcing school districts to do this.  Let's make the legislators take the same hits we are and see how they feel.

 This bill seems quite "heavy-handed" and controlling to me.  I believe these decisions should be up to the local area.  One school system in our county is working to bring locally grown produce into the school and has really been working to improve school meals.  They actually use their kitchen to make the school meals!  Many schools in this state use the heat-and-serve meals or have turned the meal service over to other companies and I have not heard a lot of good comments.  Farm-to-School aims to not only provide a market to local food producers but to increase the intake of fresh quality foods and freshly prepared foods.  This is a win-win for everybody.  I don't think that the "State" should get heavy-handed about this but leave this up to the local taxpayers; if the schools are able to manage their budgets to provide better food, jobs, greater student satisfaction with meals and still stay within budget it should be up to the local area.  There is already too much state control of these matters.  I agree with the person who stated that we do have bloated administration in many areas; all areas should be looked at.  Don't make a quick decision on something as important as what schools feed their children.  The AIM should be for better nutrition for all and reducing unnecessary spending, and it should be up to the local voters to decide on which areas their money should be spent - not someone who isn't even involved in the area.  A properly fed child does better in school, as many studies have shown. 

Privatizing is not the answer, at our schools they have already privatized the custodial and I believe 2 people from the previous staff were hired.  Our food service has started a farm to school hook-up with our local farms and not only does that help to keep cost in the kitchen down it helps our local farmers.  We are one of the few schools in the area that are not already privatized and the food service here are paying their own wages and benefits besides adding to the general fund.  I think the government needs to really look at this, every school is different.   I think we should look at administration maybe sharing superintendents should be looked as a way to help save schools money. It would be a start. I would also like to know has anyone every check to see if is 5 years after privatizing a school service did it really save anything? I'm sure an honest answer would take an audit but it would be nice to see the actual savings if there were any.

I am a School Bus Driver. It's a wonderful job. We have a familiar relationship with students and their parents. This bill would take that away. We don;t make that much money. Making ends meet on our wages is very difficult. If faced with what this bill will mean for our jobs, many of us will have to find employment someplace else. We are the first face that students see in the morning. We make a difference in their day. Students are happy to see their lunch ladies and their bus drivers everyday. Please don't fix something that isn't broken. How much will really be saved when these displaced workers need monetary support in the form of food stamps or WIC or welfare in general because they aren't earning enough money to make ends meet. Maybe the more you try to save the more you will have to spend. You might be looking to save money in the wrong place. I just heard about a government subsidizes subdivision in Flint. Ground breaking begins in a few months. These homes will cost 175,000. to build and they will be sold for between 50,000 and 75,000. It seems like these are the kind of things you should be looking at. We are working and paying our own way.Please think about this bill! It will affect a lot of people in a very negative way. Thanks for listening to a very frighten bus driver.

 This bill will be devastating to alot of good people who have worked hard for there schools. leave the choice with local districts. my group took hugh pay cuts and insurance changes last year to avoid the threat of privatization. kill this bill. The public should be outraged at this bill , putting people in your schools around your kids from a for profit company is a bad idea. not to mention the drage on the retirement system with all these people let go not paying into it.... stupid idea not well thought out kill the bill....

 RECALL SNYDER AND ANYONE VOTING FOR THIS BILL THINK ABOUT IT  KILL THE BILL

 This is the right thing to do.  You can either take money out of the classrooms, which directly hurts the students, or you have to start looking for other ways to save money in the school systems.  Privatization of services makes sense because state Government has no reason to be in the business of driving busses, cooking meals, or custodial services.  Schools could save even more money by reducing the number of administrators.  The issue with leaving this up to the districts is that the heavy union districts are generally the one's who need this reform the most but refuse the make the changes.  I would hope that the private companies who take over these services would hire many of the same people originally in those positions.   

 

 While some may believe that this bill will have no fiscal impact on the state that is not true. It will result in the State of Michigan losing tax revenue as is a well known fact that privatization means lower wages which equals a reduction of income taxes, a reduction of sales taxes being paid will also be realized as the workers whose income will be cut will be force to cut their spending, also with the house foreclosure rate going up in the State of Michigan more people will be forced to face this issue as they could face the possibly of not being able to pay the mortgages they have on their house’s as they have based these mortgages on their current income and also with a health care crisis in this state as well as the rest of the country more people will be losing their health care insurance benefits.

  This proposal not only affects Public School Employees but it also will have an effect on the income of the people in the communities in which they live and spend their income as less money will be spent at the local Grocery Stores, Hardware Stores, Bakeries, Movie Theaters, Barber Shops/Hair Salons, Restaurants, Car Dealers, etc. which in turn means that the income and spending of the merchants that own these business’s will be reduced and also could force the possibility of layoffs in the workforce that these business’s have as they will see a reduction in profits which again the outcome will be less taxes being paid in addition to more people facing the house foreclosure and loss of health care issue. This will have also have an effect on the tourist industry in the state and will result in a loss in tourist revenue as these workers (Public School and Private Sector Employees that are impacted by the spiral effect of this bill) will not be spending as much on vacations which in turn means layoffs in the tourist industry and again less taxes being paid. School employees will also lose part if not all of their retirement which again results in fewer taxes paid, less money spent in the local communities that they live, loss in tourist revenue, and layoffs in the Private Sector. As you can see that with all of the events that will happen if this bill is passed it will have a fiscal impact on the state. By outsourcing services, hundreds of thousands of Michiganders will lose jobs and out of state, profit-making companies will benefit.  Our tax-payer dollars should be used to Hire Michigan First!
 Why should the state legislate how local units spend their money?  For a governor and Republican-lead legislature that preach "smaller government", this legislation seems to do just the opposite.
 Finally, privatization has not been proven successful or to provide positive outcomes in districts in which it has been implemented.  In many school districts, internal departments have been able to match the lowest bid of private companies.  Why should  this optionbe taken away?

 

 amen brother you said it....

 If this happens our state is really going to be in trouble. God help us all. All those people that worked all those years and this state wants to turn there back on them? Rick Snyder is only taking a dollar this year though!  Bet thats gonna be tuff on him and his staff. How is he gonna make it? How are they gonna make it? If I was a millionaire I could live on a dollar this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So maybe we should balance the budget by doubling your pay?

 

Turning their back?!? Didn't you get paid all those years? Did they force you to work there?

 I wasn't forced to work in the school district I chose to work in the school district as a custodian after bieng medically removed from my other job.  That was about 9 yrs ago.  I enjoy working in the school district and make a decent wage.  I am not living wealty or above my means.  I dont have credit cards or all the good baubles in life.  I have learned to live by shopping in cheaper grocery stores and to tell my kids that they can be spoiled on their birthdays and on christmas.  I dont have to money to save much and own my beater truck but keep things going with the wages I make in the school district cleaning the school.  I have recently taken a pay cut right about 10% and have to pay for some of my insurance, that really sucked but I am sucking it up and thought everything would be ok with my job as we just negotiated a new contract.  Then I hear that this bill gets passed and is just waiting to be signed off on by snyder.  If and when this goes through what am I supposed to do, I learned some skills in my other job that could help but there is nothing in Michigan that my skill set is good for the only other skill set I have is custodial and if I took a job in one of the privatized sectors I more than likely would have to pick up a second job to make ends meet. 

As for a second job what is really out there?  More than likely I would be forced to leave this state and I really dont want to do that because except for the trips as a kid I have lived hear for my whole life and enjoy what Michigan has to offer.  I really dont know what else to say on this matter but we have given up alot on our side and were hoping "The Nerd" would support us.  Guess I was wrong again.

 So agree RECALL SNYDER.  Any person that doesn't  agree is making way to much money.  I want to know why this bill only says keep teachers and Administrators.  Why pick on the lowest paid departments that don't make much anyway.  The bill doesn't say anything about Ground personnel are they included in the bill to.  KILL THE BILL.  Everyone employeed at the schools works there because they like it there and they are wrecking moral for all employees at the schools.

Hello my name is Ron and I have worked for public schools for 26 years. I have been a bus driver, custodian, substitute teacher, and mechanic.

Many think I make an astronomical amount of money and that I will retire with a pension that will allow me to live like a king. (still waiting for my crown to arrive)

I understand that the state is in trouble and needs to make cuts. I see that in order to make changes the people of the great state of Michigan will have to sacrifice much. I lay blame at no mans door. I simply would like for the "shared sacrifices" to be across the board.

I hear much talk of people who work in the public school system who make large amounts of money and retire in leisure. The only people in my district who make anything above $50,000 are the administrators. There are a small number of them compared to the general employees but their salaries increase the "average" a public employee makes.

In order to make change the people at the top of the pay scale are the ones who will have to make a change. When a superintendent makes almost 6 times what other employees make, something has to change.

The attitude of, it's always better to farm the work to the lowest bidder, is unproven at best and scary at worst. Why do people think that if a company is trying to make a profit they can do a better job?

Would I be willing to share in the funding of my pension, yes? Would I be willing to pay for my part of Health Care, already do? Will the state be willing to support school district initiatives instead of dictating terms, we'll see. Will those who have, be willing to share the responsibility of saving this state with those who have not?

The choices of what to do and how to do it are few and far between. But until the ones at the top realize that the ones at the bottom are voters too, we will never see real change and innovation.

Restrictive laws are not what we need but more innovation and creativity to get out of the situation that nobody created but everyone is to blame.

 

 

 I agree.  But in my district we have teachers that make almost as much as our superintendent.  We have teachers making 130K.  We are one of the highest paid districts for teachers.  This information is all public records.  If the teachers and admin. would take a cut the schools would not be in the shape they are in.  Take away from the little person and keep giving the big person more.  It's always been that way and I don't see it changing.  How about when these people get elected into the house for two terms they are set for life with insurance and all benefits.  Take that way from them michigan would be doing good.  It all needs to start at the TOP.

It's astounding how the rich have set the middle class fighting against each other for their scraps, like dogs.

 

 I hope this bill 4306 is not passed . I think instead of crushing the little people who  need their jobs so we can feed our families we need to start at the top of society and dig into the pockets of the rich. I have worked in transportation  for public schools for years and  can  feed my family with what I make and  my heart is into driving a  school bus, but when you go to privitizing school buses  do the schools really know what they are getting and will the new group be willing to do the little extras like making sure children get home safe. Bus drivers are more than drivers we are like baby sitters, referees,  mentors and councelors all rapped up into one.   The children are like my children were I will protect them at every measure that I can. Please  I beg of u there must be another way for the state to  save the budget.  PLEASE DON'T PASS THIS BILL 4306    You are going to force more and more people to leave the state of michigan.  Let the districts decide for them selves what to do  or get opinions from  all the employees of public school system  BECAUSE I JUST WANT MY JOB.. Please let all of us have and opinion and let the little people opinion count as well because we are voters to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Making the division of the wealth and poor more clear, with the passing of this bill.

When the teaching and administrative staff have outsourced/privatized all the non-instructional employees, who next will be the target for financial budgeting for the public school system ?   They do not seem to have enough common sense to see, they also stand in a position for wage cuts, higher insurance costs, higher retirement cost, and (or) privatization.

Tenure/seniority someday will be a notion from the past and quality will supersede quantity of years, as in seniority. there will no longer be the 'Glorified Babysitter' taking high wages for the definition of teaching.

 An email I received from Rep. Agema:

The bill does not requires all food service to be fired- it allows the school to decide who they want. The bill does not require the school to take any bid posted but does require them to post why they took what they did. Comptetition always drives down prices. The Grand Rapids school system alone saved $19.5 million just by taking bids on transportation. Please get your facts from the bill not some organization that stands to continually milk a system that can't afford it any more- like part time bus drivers to recieve full medical benefit at age 60 just like a teacher of 30 years only after 10 years of part time service- it's called a legacy cost and is unsustainable. Wake up!

MY RESPONSE:

Dear Representative Agema,

Here are some of the key points I know you are aware of.

1. The hiring of the people interacting with our children. The companies can hire whom ever they want to meet their low pay criteria and the school will not have any input.

2. Most of the companies that will take over our schools will be from out of State or in some case out of country (First Student Inc. is from England). This means the money being made will be going to other states economy's. The local vendors like Truck Service lose the sales they were making to local districts because the large out of state companies will import their products from out of state warehouses.

3. The state will lose the 3 percent of the State employee payroll that it is currently receiving, this would be a significant impact to the retirement system.

4. Think about the number of drivers in the state. When summer vacation comes all of these people will go on state assistance for unemployment.

5. Some districts have used their ISD's to cut costs that were competitive enough to beat Dean Transportation. Livingston ISD took over the county and has maintained integrity and reliable service using drivers that are still contributing to the state's retirement system. I think the state should look into using this type of format much like the southern states do to operate their school system.

6. The part time bus driver has to work more hours per year to meet the state requirements. It takes more than 1 year driving to make up 1 year of retirement time, also the driver is only paid on the percentage of pay he or she was making not the 100,000 dollar 10 month employee teachers salary. The cost cuts need to take place with the over paid teachers and administrators severely milking the system.....

Remember Representative Agema, these companies are not out to save the districts money but to line their own pockets. Dean Trans., First Student, Durham and DHT are all salivating waiting for this bill to pass.

You tell me to WAKE UP!?! I understand that YOU believe this is best but please look beyond yourself and see what the people of the State are saying and believe in. I have spoke with other Representatives who agree that my points are truthful and valid PLEASE look at this from the people of the States perspective and not just your own!!!

 

Hello my name is Ron and I have worked for public schools for 26 years. I have been a bus driver, custodian, substitute teacher, and mechanic.

Many think I make an astronomical amount of money and that I will retire with a pension that will allow me to live like a king. (still waiting for my crown to arrive)

I understand that the state is in trouble and needs to make cuts. I see that in order to make changes the people of the great state of Michigan will have to sacrifice much. I lay blame at no mans door. I simply would like for the "shared sacrifices" to be across the board.

I hear much talk of people who work in the public school system who make large amounts of money and retire in leisure. The only people in my district who make anything above $50,000 are the administrators. There are a small number of them compared to the general employees but their salaries increase the "average" a public employee makes.

In order to make change the people at the top of the pay scale are the ones who will have to make a change. When a superintendent makes almost 6 times what other employees make, something has to change.

The attitude of, it's always better to farm the work to the lowest bidder, is unproven at best and scary at worst. Why do people think that if a company is trying to make a profit they can do a better job?

Would I be willing to share in the funding of my pension, yes? Would I be willing to pay for my part of Health Care, already do? Will the state be willing to support school district initiatives instead of dictating terms, we'll see. Will those who have, be willing to share the responsibility of saving this state with those who have not?

The choices of what to do and how to do it are few and far between. But until the ones at the top realize that the ones at the bottom are voters too, we will never see real change and innovation.

Restrictive laws are not what we need but more innovation and creativity to get out of the situation that nobody created but everyone is to blame.

 You should congratulate yourself for beginning what will be know as the worse mess in Michigan ever. As if, blatently dipping your dirty paws into the "Ol Folks" fixed income ( retirement pension ) piggy bank wasn't bad enough. Now the attack on the lowest payed groups within the educational arena.  Obviously you are only blind in one eye and just don't see to well from the other. Replacing these groups are not the answer to Michigans financial woes but moreover the last straw in Michigans demise. Whats another 3000 or 4000 foreclosers in Michigan ? Oh and, the unemployment rate beginning July 1 2012 is most likely to astound you. Had your eye sight been repaired while you had health insurance, you might have seen that the cushy union jobs your looking to destroy have a top pay just under the top pay for Mc Donalds employees and relatively the same health care program, NONE... The top dollar, no work to earn pay union poisitions you're exagerating about, went out with the Beach Boys a long time ago. These folks break their back for pensions that are far from adequate or even close to a means of survival. The give backs from any one of the contracts you claim to be such a burden, will simply show the amount of benefits and wages that have been given back over the course of the past 8 - 10 years. On the other hand, had your one bad eye been even close to examining what goes on at the Administrative level in any educational establishment, you MIGHT HAVE seen such instances such as admistrators that were allowed to retire to pensions upwards of $65,000 and at the same time be hired back into the sytem as "Contracted Cunsaltants" at the tune of $110,000 per year with additional perks. Now that's cushhhhhy. Hmmm, did I miss something here?  Yup congratulations on totally missing the boat.  After these guys are gone, your position will move to the next lowest...  Quite an acheivement...  Yur gonna love the new Michigan

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This bill is another scheme at paying back the business interest that supported the Republicans.

I find this a way of optimizing institutional processes and activities. As I said it before, every institution must acknowledge it can`t always work as an organic system, by providing itself everything it needs to function properly. The outsourcing method can prove to be more effective in such case. Externalizing services like guard, utilitarian cleaning, junk removal san jose, renovating, who knows maybe even accounting, public relations or marketing services. The point is the sum of all these factors should contribute to building a reliable institutional development.

Our elementary and secondary educational system needs to be radically restructured. Such a reconstruction can be achieved only by privatizing a major segment of the educational system--i.e., by enabling a private, for-profit industry to develop that will provide a wide variety of learning opportunities and offer effective competition to public schools, such as the best online university for example.

The part you left out is that by paying less for services the state can tax less so that everyone will have more of their own money. 

Mandating privatization isn't a good idea, as many have mentioned, their school district makes it work fine with employed staff.  If employed staff are the cheapest way to go, why should a school board want to pay more for a private company to do it?  Only if a private company can do it cheaper should this be an issue. 

If ten lunch ladies got together and wanted to form their own company to provide meals for less than they were being paid with benefits and the cost of administration, the school board should go for it.  If the lunch ladies can be more efficient, better purchasers, any profit (or loss) goes to them.