Michigan Votes Forum

The Mackinac Center has published a list of one-line public policy suggestions with links to fleshed-out versions called "101 Recommendations to Revitalize Michigan." They are mostly all from a center-right, free-market point of view. I suspect others will have their own ideas (or may want to say "me too!" to some of these).

Let this thread be "Ideas No. 102, 103, 104, etc."

I'll start:

102. Withdraw from the multi-state compact that's been working on a scheme to tax the internet and catalog sales.

 103. stop issuing "permits to purchase" for pistol purchases. this is an unneccesary cost to the taxpayer, it solves nothing, accomplishes nothing, and shows great distrust for the citizen.

104. stop registering weapons. this shows a great distrust for the citizen and a plan to one day confiscate weapons from citizens.

105. encourage school choice by using vouchers on demand, that is, when a parent is dissatisfied with the performance of their particular school system, they can demand a voucher to cover the cost of sending their children to the school of their choice.

106. Eliminate all forms of "Income Tax" in Michigan. Implement the FairTax as outlined at www.MIFairTax.org, or www.FairTaxMI.org. The National site is simply www.FairTax.org, for the entire elimination of the IRS and implementing the FairTax through the country on the Federal level. Also eliminate the non federal "Federal Reserve". The Federal Reserve and Income taxes are corrupting this country to no end!

 107. reduce the per inmate per day fee to comparable to the national average, this will serve to reduce the BILLIONS we spend on our prison system.

108. get rid of gun boards. they have no place in a free society.

109. mandate eliminating unconstitutional provisions in our state constitution.

110. require every state department to cut 10% of their spending per year until the budget us balanced.

 111. issue a liquor license to anyone who applies for one unless there is a valid reason not to.  "too many bars" is NOT a valid reason.

112.  stop being obstructionist with business permits. if a person wants to give the government money to operate a business, and is willing to pay taxes for the privelege, let him.

 113. get government out of the business of OBSTRUCTING BUSINESS.

Build a retirement home for cops from Louisiana, stock it with PCs and gumbo, and liquor. Pipe in Rush Limbaugh and Hannity 24/7.

They'd flock here like fleas to a dog.

 let's build an asylum for leftist Michiganders.

we could stock it with sauerkraut and bratworst and near-beer. they'd provide enough gas to end the energy crisis.

we could have 'da guvnah' do stand-up comedy, and nancy pelosi give lap-dances.

the place would be packed.

Sounds like a great idea. We'd have some fun, and help others at the same time. Perfect democratic idea.

I have a feeling your a closet democrat cajun. Come on out and enjoy the sunshine.

 only one hitch....

no government involvement.

still think it's gonna be fun??

 by the way, no one ever said they would be prepared to USE all that gas... they would just GENERATE IT. i can imagine several thousand people hanging around, half smoking, the other half demanding a NON-SMOKING asylum. the only people it would HELP is the playing card manufacturers. all those long term eucre turnaments....

 let's totally get government out of the schooling business. let's let THE PEOPLE decide how, when where and even whether their children are educated.

before the civil war, there were VERY FEW public schools, and they were looked upon poorly. the government got involved, and now there are millions of public schools, and they are STILL looked upon poorly.

you call THAT improvement?

jmangan:

Build a retirement home for cops from Louisiana, stock it with PCs and gumbo, and liquor. Pipe in Rush Limbaugh and Hannity 24/7.

They'd flock here like fleas to a dog.

 LOL   Amen !!

 no ideas from the socialist camp about how to revive the michigan economy?

oh... i forgot... the socialists don't care about how well an economy works, only how much of it is  controlled by the government.

crazycajun:

 no ideas from the socialist camp about how to revive the michigan economy?

oh... i forgot... the socialists don't care about how well an economy works, only how much of it is  controlled by the government.

 Thats quite a statement comming from a supposed "republican"  who's capitalist policies have bankrupted the USA and the banks have basically been "socialized" under  "Bailout Bush".

Would have expected it from Dems, they help people, but for Repubs to do it means they wrecked the country worse than even they thought.

Hmmmm.  8 years of bush and repubs in Congress since 94' ........what do we get???

Capitalist USA Broke, bankrupt,

Highest unemployment since the FIRST depression (caused by republican DE-regulation)

Highest bankrupties....EVER

Value of Dollar ....LOWEST EVER.

Communist China......... Middle class growing

Has.....Trillions of OUR dollars in surpluses.

Anyone see something WRONG HERE???

    If anything is controlled by the government its because of the failure of "conservative republicans" and unfettered Capitalism.

Oh.....I forget,  republicans don't care about how well an economy works, only how much of it can be BAILED out by the government after they ruin it..

Word of advice.......not a smart time to be "knockin" socialism,  when even baby Bush knew that "socialism"  was the only thing that  would save the USA from a total collapse.

(thats why its soooooo painful to watch you make a fool of yourself, the fact is ....you dont know what your talking about. Plain and simple.)

TrueBlue:

crazycajun:

 no ideas from the socialist camp about how to revive the michigan economy?

oh... i forgot... the socialists don't care about how well an economy works, only how much of it is  controlled by the government.

 

 Thats quite a statement comming from a supposed "republican"  who's capitalist policies have bankrupted the USA and the banks have basically been "socialized" under  "Bailout Bush".

<now THAT'S quite a statement from a supposed SOCIALIST who voted republican. obviously YOU didn't believe that leftist socialism would save the day, THAT'S why you voted for mccain. a man you KNEW would continue bush's policies. yes, that's quite a statement indeed."

Would have expected it from Dems, they help people, but for Repubs to do it means they wrecked the country worse than even they thought.

<so why is the current administration simply dumping money into the bottomless pit? because they were OUT-GUNNED in the political smarts department. GW brought up the bailouts. formulated the plan, and had it broadcast over all the news agencies just days before leaving office. not long enough to get it to congress, but long enough to let the idea catch on with the left. just as soon as the new president took office, the first package SAILED through, with only minimal resistance. the SECOND installment has met with much more resistance. even from the so-called liberal media. your candidates sit there with egg on their faces. duped again. believing that their way is best, but the people are making their displeasure clear. that's some situation to be in after only a few days in office.>

Hmmmm.  8 years of bush and repubs in Congress since 94' ........what do we get???

<the highest tick on the nasdaq EVER. the highest S&P 500 ever. the highest G.N.P. AND G.D.P. EVER.>

Capitalist USA Broke, bankrupt,

<REALLY??? i'm not broke... just the big swindlers are. the guys who sent their money to madoff. THEY'RE broke.>

Highest unemployment since the FIRST depression (caused by republican DE-regulation)

<michigan has had the highest unemployment in the nation for eight years, WITH a democrat in the mansion. if your way works, why isn't it working here? or is grandholm just a DEMOCRAT IN NAME ONLY?>

Highest bankrupties....EVER

<check your facts, they were higher under carter, who brought us 27% interest.>

Value of Dollar ....LOWEST EVER.

<another whopper.>

Communist China......... Middle class growing

<only because communism is slipping away, making room for capitalism. if not, ALL the money those middle class would make would belong to the state, like it was before the slippage.>

Has.....Trillions of OUR dollars in surpluses.

<a trend started by clinton. who also sent them state secrets. are you AGAINST a communist country INVESTING in the united states?>

Anyone see something WRONG HERE???

<yeah... your supposed FACTS. even your OPINIONS.>

    If anything is controlled by the government its because of the failure of "conservative republicans" and unfettered Capitalism.

<so, the nationalization of the big three after the bailout is because of conservative republicans? WE don't want to take over a business we know nothing about running. YOUR SIDE DOES. >

Oh.....I forget,  republicans don't care about how well an economy works, only how much of it can be BAILED out by the government after they ruin it..

<not one republican voted for this bailout. EVERY democrat did. let's hope that works out for you and your side.>

Word of advice.......not a smart time to be "knockin" socialism,  when even baby Bush knew that "socialism"  was the only thing that  would save the USA from a total collapse.

<word of advice... not smart to be "knockin" the system YOU VOTED FOR.>

 

 

(thats why its soooooo painful to watch you make a fool of yourself, the fact is ....you dont know what your talking about. Plain and simple.)

<yeah...right.... believe dat.... next time... bite the bullet and vote your mouth, not your heart. it makes you look a whole lot less like a lying hipocrite.>

 You have never demonstrated anything but ignorance.

Your entire diatribe is drivel.

You dont even understand that the Auto industry was given a LOAN.

As opposed to wall street and the banks.....which DIDNT. (They were Straight up bought by the tax payers, US gov.)

You are an ignorant person that doesnt even realize he is an idiot, and  sadly that is typical of republicans.

Considering you talk the most, but are obviously uninformed and self admittedly LACK an education, the best thing is for people to ignore you and vote against anyone YOU support.

Thankfully that is JUST what has happened.

Frankly your kind is just not worth the time.      Pffft !

 pity... all we get from you is more diatribe, rhetoric, and trash mouth.

'your kind' must certainly be worth the time, you wasted YOUR TIME, YOUR EFFORT AND YOUR VOTE on MY KIND.

you didn't waste it on YOUR kind. YOU didn't even pick the WINNING HORSE IN THE RACE. pity...

as for ignorance. how can a man who says one thing, and votes another be considered even remotely HONEST, much less REMOTELY EDUCATED?

 lol. 

Pffft !

 so, once again...

how is socialism going to get michigan out of it's current mess?

by cutting taxes? NO, it can't cut taxes and still afford the mound of social programs necessary to a socialist state.

by cutting spending? NO, it can't cut spending for exactly the same reason.

by shrinking government? NO, it can't shrink government, it wants government to  be the owner and possessor of all of michigan, controlled by the workers, and totally disregarding those who will not work.

by emulating the other successful socialist countries in the world? NO, because there ARE NO successfull socialist countries.

so, let's hear it...

you avoided it before, try and answer now.

 that must be your default answer for every problem faced by the world today.  just flatulate and it will go away.

now, impress us with your brilliance and actually answer the question.

 yeah. 
Your "powder"  is wet dude.

 prove it.

 114. let's elect a PRO-BUSINESS governor. not just one that SAYS she's pro-business.

115. let's take a FIVE YEAR TAX HOLIDAY and see how successful michigan is then.

 dear trueblue.

you said...

"Communist China......... Middle class growing

Has.....Trillions of OUR dollars in surpluses.

Anyone see something WRONG HERE???"

well, the truth is, we do. you mention COMMUNIST china. a china WITHOUT CLASSES. a china WITHOUT such mundane social labels. all are WORKERS, ALL ARE UNITED, ALL ARE COMMITTED, ALL ARE ONE.

but YOU, a socialist who should know better, have shot yourself in the foot with your own statement. the FACT (and according to you, everything you say is a fact.) that you OPENLY ADMIT that there IS a growing middle class in china is very telling from a LET'S MAKE OUR SYSTEM SOCIALIST POINT OF VIEW.

it tells me that COMMUNISM ISN'T WORKING. that CAPITALISM IS WINNING.

if the GROWING MIDDLE CLASS is a FACT, (and according to you, everything you say is a fact.) then it MAY no longer be correct to claim china as COMMUNIST, BUT indeed CAPITALIST.

so, if the bastion (the last bastion, by the way) is crumbling around Mao's ears, and people are buying cars at incredible rates, and the government has built the high dams to provide power to new businesses (like gm.) perhaps it's time to change their title to CAPITALIST CHINA.

FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

 i didn't think you could answer the question.

another white flag of surrender.

 Theres nothing to answer, you waste your time pounding on your keyboard.

It is quite clear you have no education.  I am sorry, but you are a waste of time.

None of what you "pound" out,   is relevant, factual or coherent.

"Jmanaga"  actually took the time,  many times to respond to you and all to no avail.

I am surprised the admin  has let you rant and babble  here.  They obviously know that you have nothing to contribute and are a hinderance to  "adult" discussion.

Pffft !

crazycajun:

 114. let's elect a PRO-BUSINESS governor. not just one that SAYS she's pro-business.

115. let's take a FIVE YEAR TAX HOLIDAY and see how successful michigan is then.

Please define "pro-business" in concrete, meaningful terms.  What does a "pro-business" governor do?  Exactly what would such a governor accomplish and how would having the pro-business governor you define and describe benefit all Michigan citizens?

Please tell us in meaningful and concrete terms and detail exactly what you mean by your "five-year tax holiday," what its outcome would be, and why and how it would work to benefit all Michigan citizens.  

Again, no sloganeering, no sound bite stuff, no negativism, please.  Just give us coherent ideas and explanations. 

SaneMichigander:

crazycajun:

 114. let's elect a PRO-BUSINESS governor. not just one that SAYS she's pro-business.

115. let's take a FIVE YEAR TAX HOLIDAY and see how successful michigan is then.

Please define "pro-business" in concrete, meaningful terms.

<pro-business is ALREADY in concrete, meaninful terms.>

  What does a "pro-business" governor do?

<works to repeal all the laws, fees, taxes, and practices that make business wish to move elsewhere.>

 Exactly what would such a governor accomplish and how would having the pro-business governor you define and describe benefit all Michigan citizens?

<if not impeded by ANTI-BUSINESS legislators, this governor would accomplish a repeal of regressive business taxes, favoring a low FAIR sales tax. this governor would accomplish a repeal of regressive fees, licensing, and government interference. this would result in michigan becoming MORE ATTRACTIVE TO BUSINESS, AND MORE CONDUCIVE TO THE BUSINESSES ALREADY HERE. this may not benefit EVERY michigander, but it would benefit the VAST MAJORITY of them. our current governor has hurt every michigander in the state, some several times. not only with high taxes, but with high government interference.>

Please tell us in meaningful and concrete terms and detail exactly what you mean by your "five-year tax holiday," what its outcome would be, and why and how it would work to benefit all Michigan citizens.  

<what is it about "FIVE YEAR TAX HOLIDAY" DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?  it's outcome would be to keep more money in the hands of businessmen and their employees. every dollar that the government takes and wastes is a dollar that could be paying an employee's salary. it might not benefit every michigander, but it WILL benefit the vast majority. the state will have the added benefit of learning the lessons of FRUGALITY. ALWAYS HANDY IN TOUGH TIMES.>

Again, no sloganeering, no sound bite stuff, no negativism, please.  Just give us coherent ideas and explanations. 

 now, tell us how SOCIALISM will benefit every michigander.

Around and around we go.

<pro-business is ALREADY in concrete, meaninful terms.>

No, the phrase, “pro-business” or “pro-business governor” is merely a sound bite label.  Please define what you mean by your terms in clear, concise and concrete terms.

If you do not know what the term means in your lexicon, then just say so and we will move on and ignore it altogether as being meaningless.  You don’t have to be ashamed of using language without meaning.  Just quit doing it.

<works to repeal all the laws, fees, taxes, and practices that make business wish to move elsewhere.>

Give us a list of such things, so we can know what you are writing about in direct, clear, specific and concrete terms.  Explain why each encourages business to move elsewhere.  And explain in equally direct, clear, specific and concrete terms how and why repealing such laws, fees, taxes and practices would keep businesses in Michigan.

Further, explain how repealing the laws, etc., you have identified will restore the collapsed markets for goods and services that have caused businesses to not just move away but simply close the doors and shutter the windows, and quit altogether.

Specifics and details always count.  No sound bites.  No rants.  Just a straightforward description, discussion and assessment of what, why and how. 

<if not impeded by ANTI-BUSINESS legislators, this governor would accomplish a repeal of regressive business taxes, favoring a low FAIR sales tax. this governor would accomplish a repeal of regressive fees, licensing, and government interference. this would result in michigan becoming MORE ATTRACTIVE TO BUSINESS, AND MORE CONDUCIVE TO THE BUSINESSES ALREADY HERE. this may not benefit EVERY michigander, but it would benefit the VAST MAJORITY of them. our current governor has hurt every michigander in the state, some several times. not only with high taxes, but with high government interference.>

Obviously, the author of that little diatribe does not know the difference between regressive and progressive taxation systems.

By definition, a regressive tax places relatively heavier economic burdens on those who can least afford to carry them.  A progressive tax takes into consideration ability to pay, balancing tax burdens so they are bearable for people for in all of society’s economic strata.   

Sales (or “consumption”) taxes are regressive, and especially so when they are applied to necessary goods and commodities such as clothing, food, essential services and fuel.  All buyers pay the same rate, but those who reside in the lower reaches of the economy pay a proportionately greater share of their earnings in these taxes.  Consumer spending – the current mainstay of our American economy – is thus discouraged by such taxes.

Don’t believe that?  Then ask people who were in the retail sales business in Michigan when the sales tax rate soared from 4% to 6% back in the mid 1990s -- a 50% increase -- under then Governor John Engler.  They’ll tell you what happened to their sales and businesses.

The heavier tax bite for people at lower income levels makes it more difficult for them to accumulate savings for large purchases, or savings that will help them become increasingly secure and independent, which is the American Dream. 

In fact, the loss of accumulated savings in the recent economic collapse is a true American tragedy.  Ask people who have experienced it.  You won’t have to look far to find them.

At the same time, regressive taxation works to further concentrate wealth at the top end of the scale.  We see how well the latter has worked out for the increasing numbers of unemployed, broke Americans in recent months.  Fat cats get fatter, working stiffs wonder if they can survive.

Furthermore, remember who actually pays sales taxes.  Michigan consumers rarely write checks for sales taxes directly to the state treasury, and they never fill out sales tax returns unless they also happen to operate businesses under a sales tax license.  The burden of actually paying sales taxes falls almost exclusively on business. 

In reality, as noted above, sales taxes discourage rather than encourage commerce when the tax is passed on to buyers. 

In the end, businesses are pressed by market forces to absorb the cost of sales taxes.  That slashes business profits.  Reduced profits limit availability of operating and expansion capital, encourage debt, restrain growth of the job market (or cause shrinkage of the job market) and hurt everybody except the already well situated. 

So, no, the idea of a sales tax based system will not benefit Michigan’s economy or its people.  In fact, it would make things far worse than they are.

It can be argued that income and other types of taxes do the same thing, of course.  And no doubt somebody will make that argument, perhaps even rationally.  So much the better.  That demonstrates in the end that the situation is complex and won’t yield to simplistic, one-dimensional reasoning and quasi-solutions based on ideological dogma.  The sooner we digest and assimilate that fact, the sooner we can get down to the real business of dealing effectively with the real issues at hand.

<what is it about "FIVE YEAR TAX HOLIDAY" DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?  it's outcome would be to keep more money in the hands of businessmen and their employees. every dollar that the government takes and wastes is a dollar that could be paying an employee's salary. it might not benefit every michigander, but it WILL benefit the vast majority. the state will have the added benefit of learning the lessons of FRUGALITY. ALWAYS HANDY IN TOUGH TIMES.>

I still do not understand exactly what you mean by a “five-year tax holiday.”  Please explain it without the histrionics.  And please explain in meaningful, concrete detail how and why you think your idea would work.  Then we will have a basis for examining whether or not your idea has merit.  At this point it stands only as a sound bite.

Of course, what was said above stands here, too.  If you don’t know or can't articulate what the term means in your lexicon, that’s OK.  Just quit cluttering up the place with it, to clear space for adult discussion.

SaneMichigander:

 

Around and around we go.

 

<pro-business is ALREADY in concrete, meaninful terms.>

<pro. the latin opposite of  CON. pro meaning FOR...IN SUPPORT OF... CONCRETE ENOUGH? or do i have to define what IS is?>   

No, the phrase, “pro-business” or “pro-business governor” is merely a sound bite label.

<and DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST is DOUBLE-SPEAK.>

  Please define what you mean by your terms in clear, concise and concrete terms.

<please consult websters. no codes here. no buzzwords or hidden meanings.>

 

If you do not know what the term means in your lexicon, then just say so and we will move on and ignore it altogether as being meaningless.

<if you don't know what pro-business means, we can't discuss anything intelligently anyway.>

  You don’t have to be ashamed of using language without meaning.  Just quit doing it.

<you should be ashamed of yourself for not knowing the meaning of simple, three letter words.>

 

<works to repeal all the laws, fees, taxes, and practices that make business wish to move elsewhere.>

 

Give us a list of such things, so we can know what you are writing about in direct, clear, specific and concrete terms.  Explain why each encourages business to move elsewhere.  And explain in equally direct, clear, specific and concrete terms how and why repealing such laws, fees, taxes and practices would keep businesses in Michigan.

again, if you don't know what PRO-BUSINESS means, you WILL NOT grasp the concept of government behind it.>

 

Further, explain how repealing the laws, etc., you have identified will restore the collapsed markets for goods and services that have caused businesses to not just move away but simply close the doors and shutter the windows, and quit altogether.

<when you repeal regressive laws, businesses look more favorably on the business environment. more business means more jobs. people move to where the jobs are, which is why they are leaving michigan in droves.>

 

Specifics and details always count.  No sound bites.  No rants.  Just a straightforward description, discussion and assessment of what, why and how. 

<if you don't understand the three letter WHAT, the rest is an exercise in futility. ask again when YOU can define PRO-BUSINESS in clear, concise terms.>

 

<if not impeded by ANTI-BUSINESS legislators, this governor would accomplish a repeal of regressive business taxes, favoring a low FAIR sales tax. this governor would accomplish a repeal of regressive fees, licensing, and government interference. this would result in michigan becoming MORE ATTRACTIVE TO BUSINESS, AND MORE CONDUCIVE TO THE BUSINESSES ALREADY HERE. this may not benefit EVERY michigander, but it would benefit the VAST MAJORITY of them. our current governor has hurt every michigander in the state, some several times. not only with high taxes, but with high government interference.>

 

Obviously, the author of that little diatribe does not know the difference between regressive and progressive taxation systems.

 <and you tink our tax system is not regressive to the business climate?>

By definition, a regressive tax places relatively heavier economic burdens on those who can least afford to carry them.  A progressive tax takes into consideration ability to pay, balancing tax burdens so they are bearable for people for in all of society’s economic strata.   

<my point exactly. unfortunately, they are TOO HIGH, and businesses cannot afford to pay them.>

 

Sales (or “consumption”) taxes are regressive, and especially so when they are applied to necessary goods and commodities such as clothing, food, essential services and fuel.  All buyers pay the same rate, but those who reside in the lower reaches of the economy pay a proportionately greater share of their earnings in these taxes.  Consumer spending – the current mainstay of our American economy – is thus discouraged by such taxes.

<so you missed the words FAIR tax.> 

 

Don’t believe that?  Then ask people who were in the retail sales business in Michigan when the sales tax rate soared from 4% to 6% back in the mid 1990s -- a 50% increase -- under then Governor John Engler.  They’ll tell you what happened to their sales and businesses.

<so, why hasn't our current governor lowered, or even repealed those taxes ENTIRELY?>

 

The heavier tax bite for people at lower income levels makes it more difficult for them to accumulate savings for large purchases, or savings that will help them become increasingly secure and independent, which is the American Dream. 

 <I THOUGHT YOU SAID THE AMERICAN DREAM WAS TO JOIN A UNION, BE PAID FOR NOT WORKING, AND ELECT SOCIALIST DEMOCRATS.>

In fact, the loss of accumulated savings in the recent economic collapse is a true American tragedy.  Ask people who have experienced it.  You won’t have to look far to find them.

<i know right where to find them. they're on my side now.>

 

At the same time, regressive taxation works to further concentrate wealth at the top end of the scale.  We see how well the latter has worked out for the increasing numbers of unemployed, broke Americans in recent months.  Fat cats get fatter, working stiffs wonder if they can survive.

<and businesses leave in droves.>

 

Furthermore, remember who actually pays sales taxes.  Michigan consumers rarely write checks for sales taxes directly to the state treasury, and they never fill out sales tax returns unless they also happen to operate businesses under a sales tax license.  The burden of actually paying sales taxes falls almost exclusively on business. 

 <no, it falls entirely to the people who buy stuff. businesses only COLLECT sales taxes.>

In reality, as noted above, sales taxes discourage rather than encourage commerce when the tax is passed on to buyers. 

<see note above. lower taxes equals more purchasing power in the hands of the people.> 

In the end, businesses are pressed by market forces to absorb the cost of sales taxes. 

<since WHEN??? name one business that ABSORBS THE COST OF SALES TAX.>

 That slashes business profits.  Reduced profits limit availability of operating and expansion capital, encourage debt, restrain growth of the job market (or cause shrinkage of the job market) and hurt everybody except the already well situated. 

 

So, no, the idea of a sales tax based system will not benefit Michigan’s economy or its people.  In fact, it would make things far worse than they are.

 <SO, WHY DO WE HAVE A SALES TAX HERE?>

It can be argued that income and other types of taxes do the same thing, of course.  And no doubt somebody will make that argument, perhaps even rationally.  So much the better.  That demonstrates in the end that the situation is complex and won’t yield to simplistic, one-dimensional reasoning and quasi-solutions based on ideological dogma.  The sooner we digest and assimilate that fact, the sooner we can get down to the real business of dealing effectively with the real issues at hand.

 <SO, WILL MORE TAXES GET US OUT OF THIS MESS?>

 

<what is it about "FIVE YEAR TAX HOLIDAY" DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?  it's outcome would be to keep more money in the hands of businessmen and their employees. every dollar that the government takes and wastes is a dollar that could be paying an employee's salary. it might not benefit every michigander, but it WILL benefit the vast majority. the state will have the added benefit of learning the lessons of FRUGALITY. ALWAYS HANDY IN TOUGH TIMES.>

 

I still do not understand exactly what you mean by a “five-year tax holiday.”  Please explain it without the histrionics.  And please explain in meaningful, concrete detail how and why you think your idea would work.  Then we will have a basis for examining whether or not your idea has merit.  At this point it stands only as a sound bite.

<FIVE... the number of piddies you have on one hand... YEAR... 365 days ans change... TAX... those things we pay too much and too many of... HOLIDAY... time off... time away FROM...   SIMPLE ENOUGH???? got it THIS time????>

 

Of course, what was said above stands here, too.  If you don’t know or can't articulate what the term means in your lexicon, that’s OK.  Just quit cluttering up the place with it, to clear space for adult discussion.

 <re-read my aqbove comments, please.>

Thanks, crazy, for once again demonstrating that you have nothing of substance to bring to the discussion here.

Now the adults can feel free to ignore you and get on with the real conversation.

Keep your powder dry, chum.

 so you DON'T understand what i said... why didn't you just SAY SO...

now that we know that you have no clue what we are talking about, the adults can feel free to ignore you, as we have for weeks. try and catch up, you may be able to add something of substance, instead of just begging for definitions constantly.

if common words taken in their common meanings confuses you, you have no business involving yourself in these kinds of discussions. begging for 'concrete' definitions when you know, or should know, the meanings of words simply shows you for the bungling boob you really are.

if you TRULY don't know what PRO means, please ask a teacher, but next time, try a PRIVATE school teacher. the public schools in this state have obviously failed you miserably.

now, if you are through begging for me to tell you what your fifth grade teacher should have, there are more important things to discuss than the meaning of PRO.

LOOK IT UP FOR YOURSELF. EDUCATE YOURSELF. and if you can't do that... EXCUSE YOURSELF.

 "JMANGA" sounds a lot like you on prozak.

been taking your meds?

 for this entire thread, we have not read one single, serious suggestion from the left that would revitalize michigan's economy.

all we have read were derision, and devisiveness. could it be that the left has no good ideas that will bring michigan back from the brink?

crazycajun:

 for this entire thread, we have not read one single, serious suggestion from the left that would revitalize michigan's economy.

Nor have we read a coherent, well defined, serious proposal from crazycajun.

 if you've read this thread, you've read SEVERAL.

 here are a few more...

make welfare a LOAN instead of a gift. have it to be repaid in ten years after being paid out. this would be ONE MORE INCENTIVE to stay off welfare, and ONE MORE INCENTIVE to get back to work and repay your debt to society.

have colleges offer 'LIFE CREDIT' towards earning a degree. these use job experience as the equivalent to college prep credits for job related degrees. it would cut down the need for extended college loans, cut down on time students have to spend in school, and cut down on unnecessary faculty at the universities. this would help many PUBLICLY EDUCATED students who don't have thousands of dollars, or two years time to spend on college prep courses that pertain to a job they have been DOING for years.

mandate that every eligible individual purchase, train with, and carry a weapon on their person at all times while in public. the only individuals who would be exempted are those that APPLY for the exemption. that way we can REGISTER the people who DON'T have guns instead of those that DO.  there are three cities that are trying this now, and it seems to be working. and before you ask.. look it up for yourself.

change divorce laws to state that any couple divorcing before five years has elapsed do not have to divide up the combined assets. both leave with what they came in with. this would, of course, require that married couples REGISTER what assets they enter a marriage with. (if it works for guns, it should work for money).

let's limit the amount of abortions to ONE in five years. i can see a woman making ONE mistake, but not more than that.

lets give a permanent tax holiday to injured veterans. they deserve it.

let's make campaign promises a binding instrument, and hold them responsible for those promises they don't deliver on. defaulting on a promisory note is serious business, politics is too.

crazycajun:

 "JMANGA" sounds a lot like you on prozak.

been taking your meds?

Just to clear the air, I don't take prozac. Can't get it anymore since Rush got off oxcy-contin. Seems he has the market cornered on prozac now. Well, that's ok though, he needs it more than I do.

crazycajun:

mandate that every eligible individual purchase, train with, and carry a weapon on their person at all times while in public. the only individuals who would be exempted are those that APPLY for the exemption. that way we can REGISTER the people who DON'T have guns instead of those that DO.  there are three cities that are trying this now, and it seems to be working. and before you ask.. look it up for yourself.

I did, and again your opinion contradicts fact.

http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2007/01/kennesaw_gun_ordinance_yet_aga.php