Michigan Votes Forum

Introduced in the Senate on June 3, 2008

Click here to view bill details.

Interesting that Creationism isn't mentioned in the Bill. And why is it only science teachers that will be free from interference? What about Lit teachers or Government teachers?

Can we have a law that offers freedom from legislators interference in the classroom?

I notice there is nothing about discussing "intelleigent design", but there is room to present the Global Warming religion view. The statement below leads me to believe the objective of this legislation is to allow teachers to force their views on students without interference, rather than debate topics. In that case, it is not science, but an agenda. SHALL NOT 23 PROHIBIT ANY TEACHER IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL IN THIS STATE FROM HELPING 24 A PUPIL TO UNDERSTAND, ANALYZE, CRITIQUE, AND REVIEW IN AN 25 OBJECTIVE MANNER THE SCIENTIFIC STRENGTHS AND SCIENTIFIC WEAKNESSES 26 OF EXISTING SCIENTIFIC THEORIES PERTINENT TO THE COURSE BEING 27 TAUGHT.

Now that we have this, lets get creation science and include gov't courses, english and mathmatics without interference

Is superstition. It is not science, and has no place in science curricula except to illustrate the difference between superstition and mythology, and science.

Protecting the Theory at Any Cost "I think it a shame that discussion of evolution usually boils down to a pledge of allegiance either to Darwin or to the handling of snakes. This view admirably distracts attention from the observation that much of Darwinism doesn’t square with observation or even make sense. Religion has nothing to do with it, being an innocent bystander. I recently read Understanding Human History, by Michael Hart, which deals with the influence of intelligence on history. Hart is an astrophysicist, and his book is well worth reading—except when he deals with evolution, when he goes ditzy. They all do. Permit me an example. A standard theory among a large school of evolutionists is that intelligence is low among people in sub-Saharan Africa, where humanity apparently originated, because life in tropical climates doesn’t impose great intellectual demands; when people migrated to colder climates, as for example in Europe, they had to evolve higher intelligence to survive. To most people it seems obvious that higher intelligence would be useful anywhere at all, so why, they ask, didn’t it arise below the Sahara? Hart replies that larger brains carry not only benefits but also costs and, by implication, that in some places the costs are greater than the advantages. The costs of larger brains are, he says: “1) Larger brains require larger amounts of energy. 2) Larger brains require larger heads, which create strains on the muscular and skeletal structure. 3) Larger brains (and larger heads) require wider female pelvises and the wider pelvises result in less efficiency in walking and running.” This is evolutionary boilerplate, and also absurd. The two are often seen keeping company. Let’s start with 1) that larger brains require more energy. A concrete example: I once asked a list of ardent evolutionists why humans, in evolving from lower primates, had largely lost their sense of smell. Their answer was in two parts. First, men evolved an upright posture, and evolved it in the savanna, where the comparatively unobstructed terrain allowed them to see all around them. They therefore did not need a sense of smell. This makes no sense. At night it obviously would be useful to know when predators were about. Lions are astute at using cover to approach their prey, and are the color of dirt. Horses, which have eyes at about the height of a man’s, and have good eyesight, also have an acute sense of smell. The upright-posture stuff is sheer story-telling. Second, I was told that brain tissue uses a great deal of energy, and that having olfactory lobes to allow a good sense of smell would require humans to find more food, causing a grave selective disadvantage. Let’s think about this. How much of an energy drain would a good olfactory lobe cause? A quick web search pulls up the assertion that rats have quite good olfaction, and use it extensively to find what they regard as food. Another quick search reveals that a rat’s entire brain occupies two cubic centimeters. A man’s brain is some 1350 cc. Let us assume that the rat’s brain consists entirely of olfactory tissue, which of course it doesn’t. So 2/1350 x 100 reveals that the rat brain is .148% of the human. Since according to Hart the brain uses twenty percent of the resting energy expenditure of a man, adding the additional two cc of olfactory tissue would increase the body’s energy demands by.148 % / 5, or .03%. This minute sum, we are to believe, is so draining as to overcome the advantage of detecting predators at night or in brush. I have heard of suspension of disbelief, but I am too weak a cord by which to suspend that much disbelief. What astounds me is that evolutionists believe it without effort. I encounter the Argument from Metabolic Burden repeatedly. Its virtue is that of being superficially plausible but not verifiable. Now let’s examine the claim that large heads weigh more, and thus burden the body. It is a commonplace of evolutionary IQism that in Europe humans evolved brains larger by 100 cc; the increase allowed them to invent such things as computers. If you are of European stock, you will doubtless have noticed the terrible musculo-skeletal strain caused by your head. One imagines the Vikings attacking Normandy with their heads lolling uncontrollably to one side, so crushing was the burden. This is arrant nonsense. It is transparent nonsense. It virtually waves a flag saying “Look! Nonsense!” But few notice. It never ends. Also in the book, Hart argues that men like women with large, firm breasts because this signals to them that the woman is young and healthy and will bear many children. This too is typical Darwinian story-telling. Does it square with observation? Does it make sense logically? If selective pressure favored large-breasted women, then large breasts would quickly become the norm (at which point they would have no selective advantage, but never mind). Look around you. Do most women have particularly large breasts, or are they in fact a bit unusual? Do you see that women with small or average breasts are unhealthy? Do you note that women with moderate breasts remain spinsters? Do you see any connection at all between size of breasts and conjugal state? Note that “large” and “firm” work against one another. Large breasts begin to sag long before small ones, especially in the absence of brassieres. A bosomy woman on this reasoning would lose her attractiveness well before her planar sisters. Why does Hart think that large breasts indicate health? They probably indicate that the woman isn’t starving, but they are perfectly consonant with countless diseases. Can you think of a disease that causes breasts to shrink? And of course it is easy to make up counter-stories. E.g., Hart says that “wider pelvises result in less efficiency in walking and running.” What does he think large breasts do? And anyway they would use more energy and (really do) cause musculo-skeletal stress and…. What solemn nonsense it all is." Fred Reed

creationism but keep indoctrinating the children into algores church of global warming?

I just don't want school kids indoctrinated to believe that non-science superstition and myth is science. Creationism is useful in science education to illustrate the difference between superstition and myth, and science. But that is the extent of its usefulness and legitimacy in science curricula. Of course, you and anyone else who wishes to do so remain free to believe that superstition and mythology are equal or superior to real science.

Is to banish ignorance. It is not to perpetuate and indoctrinate students in superstitions and myths. Creationism, and its bastard child, "intelligent design" is superstition and myth wrapped in a cloak of mumbo-jumbo to conceal the true nature of what is being marketed. It is fraud, insofar as science is concerned. It is not science, never has been science, never will be science. As such, neither creationism nor intelligent design has a legitimate place in science curricula, with one exception: These doctrines are useful to illustrate the difference between superstition and mythology and fraud, as compared to real science in the modern day world.

Is superstition. It is not science, and has no place in science curricula except to illustrate the difference between superstition and mythology, and science.

to indoctrinate them into the cult of global warming? How about liberal agenda indoctrination? That has been proven to be some of the stupidest ideas in the history of the world. I think you talk out of both sides of your face.

I either have evolved beyond talking out both sides of my face, or have not yet evolved to the point where I do that. So, either I am way ahead of or way behind the anti-science crowd in that respect. Being a religious sort, I thank God for that. In any case, I don't believe our kids should be indoctrinated in the superstition and mythology of creationism and intelligent design through their school science classes. Leave that to parents and preachers and TV evangelists. The only legitimate use or place of creationism and and its illegitimate offspring, intelligent design, in science curricula is to use them as examples of science fraud, to illustrate the difference between superstition and mythology, and real science.

Whoever wrote that we need a law to keep legislators from interfering is forgetting that they make laws, which is how the schools initially received the permission to use evolutionary curriculum in the first place. Of course, teachers are individuals and perfectly capable of having unsubstantiated ideas that this law will now allow them to present without interference. The law doesn't seem to REQUIRE them to show all sides and reasons but just to ALLOW them. So, they can tell the students anything they want without interference. This is NUTS!!! However, I also believe that people who think that Intelligent Design is religious are not being intellectually honest about their own Darwinist religion. Both are non repeatable and therefore not capable of standing up to the scientific method. This takes both ideas out of the realm of science and into the realm of history. I'm baffled as to why it so important to have either of these thoughts in the SCIENCE curriculum. Since it so controversial, and so unneccesary to basic HS level science, why can't we just move it into the universities?