Michigan Votes Forum

Introduced in the House on April 30, 2008

Click here to view bill details.

What a pile of fluff! This is what you waste time in writing and debating? We already have a science curriculum that outlines what topics to teach. We don't need this fluff piece of legislation.

This legislation is very important to uphold liberty, freedom of speech and to allow our childrend to understand that new discoveries are still possible. There was a time that everyone believed the world was flat. We still hold assumptions, unchallenged, like that today (though we don't know it now any more than those "flat worlders" knew it then.) Our children will grow and become scientific leaders IF they are taught the principles of scientific inquiry without propoganda and interferance. Thank you for introducing this!

Perhaps you like your food pre-chewed, but most of us find that distasteful. Think about what this protects: the right to speak freely about science, the right to go somewhere new when we get new information. If you're so satisfied with the past, just hop into your buggy and go home and churn the butter, baby, cause that's where comments like yours will have left us.

Lets get this at the National level also. this is definetly "freedom of choice" Freedom to hear etc.

Better get back under the bed, you'll be safe from those scary opposing ideas there. Pathetic Do this country wide today!

This bill sounds like a sneaky way to introduce creationism, also called intelligent design, into our school curriculum. If parents want their children to learn this unscientific religion based teaching, church is the proper place, not our public schools. We have plenty of problems in this state for the legislature to deal with without creating(no pun intended)a new one.

It is very interesting to note that some folks are so thin-skinned that they object to efforts to encourage pupils to explore scientific questions with open minds. There is too much indoctrination taking place in education, leading people to uncritical acceptance of things where they should be thinking about the outcomes and how they might impact their lives and those of others.

Pass by the legislature at micro-managing school curricula. Keep the authority over curricula where it belongs -- with qualified educators and academics, administrators and local boards -- and keep the politicians' noses out of it. Bad bill. Put it in the trash bin.

Wrong control freak lib. This bill keeps them from "micromanaging" the curriculm. Why are you libs/socialists so afraid of different viewpoints? How about teaching kids that algore invented global warming, not the internet? How about teaching them that we have been coming out of an ice age since the mid 1800'snd thousands of actual scientists think what algore and him climate control freaks are doing is criminal? Man, you libs aren't very tolerant, are you?

What are you so afraid of? I thought learning was about exploring all the ideas.

The ability to research all idea's and opinions is tantamount to have a well rounded education. Whether weighing Darwin's evolution theory or studying Intelligent Design all theories should be studied, discussed and evaluated. After watching the documentary "Expelled" it seems like we are the only free country that denies the ability to teach "Intelligent Design" and treat it as if it is some voodo theory. A trial took place dubbed the "Monkey Trial" over the theory of evolution. Do we have to have another trial take place in order to teach "Intelligent Design?' This country was founded on freedom and liberty for all individuals, not just a select few. Our young have to have the ability to question, research and look into all possibilities. That is how discoveries are made.

"After watching the documentary "Expelled" it seems like we are the only free country that denies the ability to teach "Intelligent Design" and treat it as if it is some voodo theory." That's because anything that might give credence to religion is like kryptonite to libs, after all, if there really is right and wrong and not just some big gray mush then most of the tenets of the liberal religion fall apart. it's real hard to kill your baby when you believe it just may be wrong. "Our young have to have the ability to question, research and look into all possibilities. That is how discoveries are made." It's also how some of the bright ones may figure out that global warming is actually just a facade for total control over your life by a select few that think they are smarter than the rest. The global warmists are really the anarchists from yesterday, agenda is still the same...destroy the U.S. Knowledge scares the crap out of these control freaks.

Should keep their grubby hands off and their noses out of school curricula. That is the only way to guarantee academic freedom -- the freedom to inquire, investigate, examine, discuss the broadest possible range of ideas and bodies of information. Only those who loath true freedom want politicians and governments to define it.

"Should keep their grubby hands off and their noses out of school curricula." Exactly! If they would have done that then they wouldn't need to do this. i think this may be a plan of theirs, pass stupid laws and then pass other laws to get rid of the first one. Sometimes they can even charge you a fee to get out of obeying the first one.

"Only those who loath true freedom want politicians and governments to define it."

I forget. Is this Moolenaar's third of fourth attempt to add Creationism to the public school science curriculum? This time he's proposed it using such permissive language that the flat earth "theory" could be taught as science. How does that benefit our kids? He just wants Jesus in the schools. Period. Why can't he be honest about it?

"He just wants Jesus in the schools." You are wrong but why this would be terrible, Why? What are you so afraid of? Why do you only want to teach the children one viewpoint? Do you think it makes kids smarter when they only hear one side of a story? Don't forget that your beloved darwins theory is still, after all this time just a theory and there lots of things to dispute it.

Intelligent design, or more correctly, creationism, is not science. Neither has ever proposed a scientific hypothesis that has been successfully tested or can be tested. This is a issue that should be considered in another setting, such as a civics or religion class. If Michigan is to successfully transition into a knowledge-based economy, we need to keep religion out of our science curriculum.

You will be the gatekeeper and decide what is taught and not taught according to your agenda? Teach all theories and let the kids learn. Why are you so afraid?

Unfortunately, i.d.er’s like to blur the distinction between a regular theory and a scientific theory. Scientific theories describe coherent framework into which observable data fit. Predictions can be made and tested based on this theory. Try that with i.d. Without this distinction, i.d. will end up in the scientific dustbin, where it belongs.

then why are you so against letting folks know that there are two theories? Nothing darwin said has ever been proven. The other side has a history book explaining it all.

You said it: History book. I have no problem with i.d. being discussed in a non-science class. Not only has Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection been proven, we live within its laws every day.

If you are evolved from an ape why are apes still here?

Who created the Creator?

Modern humans did not descend from modern apes. Modern humans and modern apes had a common ancestor species that has since gone extinct. Speciation does not demand or even require that every member of a parent population be changed or go extinct. Speciation generally occurs in a subpopulation that becomes reproductively isolated from the main group. Therefore, both the parent species and the daughter species can exist simultaneously.

Before there was Tao there was Tao.

and always will be. he IS the beginning. he WILL BE the end.

created the Creator? no circular reasoning, please.

The opposition to this bill is not opposition to free speech or academic freedom, it is about academic standards. There are a myriad of reasons to not "teach both theories." Here are a couple I find particularly important: Firstly, "Intelligent Design" is not an established scientific theory; simply because a few dozen people have conspired to write a book and found an institute does not merit that their beliefs are worth mentioning in a classroom. There is a great deal of more important information that needs to be taught and learned and time should not be spend teaching non-science. Secondly, quality and enthusiasm of instruction is as important as content for students to decide what is true and what is not. A situation where teachers are not required to teach an established curriculum allows for teachers who deny evolution to teach ID like established theory and mention evolution in passing. That is the situation this legislation seeks to create. (Moolenaar has a track record of introducing anti-evolution bills.)

"quality and enthusiasm of instruction is as important as content for students to decide what is true and what is not." You are wrong on that one. You sound like a teachers union rep. Since you guys have been on this enthusiam and self esteem kick our kids are getting dumber by the minute. Now put down the kool aid and think for yourself, time to fall out of lockstep with the nea or public education as you guys have invented will cease to exist. The parents are starting to wake up to the fact that we aren't getting our moneys worth and we are ready for, as the cocialist running for pres says We Need Change. Hehehe

I thought this forum might be a good place to exchage or debate ideas in an intelligent and mature manner. But I guess (hehehe?) not.

I guess that because we don't agree with your lib/socialist agenda then we can't be as "intelligent" as you.

The topic of this forum involves how science is taught. none of the pro-id/creationist posts have issued a specific hypothesis as an alternative to evolution by natural selection. Care to try?

Our Theory. Why don't you want to expose the kids to both? Maybe if they started to understand the other "theory" it would start to chip away at the "anything goes because we are just glorified apes" mentality of today. That is what scares you relativists and your agenda. Must be tough going through life knowing that if you are wrong you might have to answer for all that if it feels good do it crap....

What specifically is your theory?

:-)

And id says?

Do you have a theory or facts?

Intelligent Design has a history book supporting it, what is the title of that history book, and who is the author, etc?