Michigan Votes Forum

'all about the children', they would ban any children from riding in any cars for any reason. auto accidents are the leading cause of death in this country. they are the leading killers and maimers of children. so, why do we (as 'responsible' adults) allow our children to be killed and maimed? because we ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE. the state has taken away our choice and our responsibility. if we no longer can decide whether or not to put our children into carseats, we cannot be held responsible if the children die or are injured. it's the state's responsibility now. it has taken it upon itself to be responsible, as the citizens obviously cannot be. children are still dying. children are still being maimed and injured. perhaps child seats are responsible. perhaps the government is responsible. the government DID build the roads... the government DID set 'safe' speed limits... the government DID mandate safety features on cars... yet people are still dying on government roads... why isn't the government being held responsible for those deaths? why are we continuing to allow our government to kill us? stop putting OUR children into those rolling death traps called cars and get those harbingers of death off of the government highways. let's make the government highways SAFE for our children.

preventable cause of DEATH would be such a hard concept for people to handle. For $20 for a booster?? For a car they ride in probably everyday?? When car accidents are children's number one cause of accidental death. Because it is higher risk, and parents aren't responsible enough to do it on their own, the State has to make laws. I hope they make tons of money off you fools and you get your kids in proper seats. Look up the term "internal injury caused by seat belt" or internal decapitation from improper seat us. Do the research before you throw stones. I've got $600 into 2 car seats that I guess I wasn't dumb enough to need the state to tell me to buy them. I did it on my own, because i did he research and am a RESPONSIBLE parent. There really should be a license to be a parent....

preventable cause of DEATH would be such a hard concept for people to handle. [yes, it is strange that stopping all cars from riding on the state's highways hasn't been brought forward as a viable cure for the deaths on those highways. it would be 100% effective and would save us billions in tax dollars.] For $20 for a booster?? [why do you need a booster when the only REAL way to stop all those deaths is to stop all that driving.] For a car they ride in probably everyday?? [not anymore, the liberals are going to ban driving altogether for any purpose. that is the only way to stop all the killing. anything less will only stop SOME of the killing. how much are you willing to sacrifice for safety?] When car accidents are children's number one cause of accidental death. [how can you have a car accident in something you aren't going to be allowed to drive?] Because it is higher risk, and parents aren't responsible enough to do it on their own, the State has to make laws. [which is why the state has taken the responsibility away from the citizens, who are only useful for funding government safety programs.] I hope they make tons of money off you fools and you get your kids in proper seats. [they do make tons of money off the fools, and they will not be able to make it much longer. there will be no money to have them give the government, as there will be no jobs, as the people will not be allowed to drive to work because they are not responsible enough to do so without killing themselves.] Look up the term "internal injury caused by seat belt" or internal decapitation from improper seat us. Do the research before you throw stones. I've got $600 into 2 car seats that I guess I wasn't dumb enough to need the state to tell me to buy them. [you will be treated as a subversive influence, to be exterminated immediately. all references to personal responsibility must be eliminated without remorse and with extreme prejudice.] I did it on my own, because i did he research and am a RESPONSIBLE parent. [never mention those words again. they will summon the 'goons' who will kill you on sight.] There really should be a license to be a parent.... [there will be, soon enough. parenting is a weapon to be controlled by the state.]

It's called FREEDOM of choice! I know not having a child in a car seat is stupid, but I want that FREEDOM to CHOICE! not same law telling me that I have to! They don't tell me how to prayer so why should they tell me on how to take care of my kiddos! YES MY KIDS ARE IN CAR SEATS NOT BECAUSE OF A LAW BUT BECAUSE IT IS FOR THEIR SAFETY!!!!!

truly SAFE, then no children would die in them ever. we are told that they are SAFE and that we should give up some of our freedoms and liberties for the sake of that safety. the truth is, if they were SAFE they wouldn't have to be mandated. so we have given up our freedoms and liberties for nothing.

Good for you and anyone else who already is *choosing* to use child restraints. The law passed to encourage those who aren't already doing so to properly protect their kids by utilizing an appropriate child restraint. Sure, it's common sense to use one, and I applaud anyone who has already wisely made the choice to do so until their child properly fits an adult seatbelt. It's ultimately up to the parents/caregivers to choose to follow the law or risk the potentially detrimental and catastrophic consequences, and they truly owe it to their kids to opt to comply. A relatively inexpensive child restraint as a hedge against devastatingly severe injuries or worse and steep medical bills/funeral expenses should really be a no-brainer, yet many are either unaware of the risks, or choose to ignore them. Mandating child restraint and booster seat usage by law ultimately serves a higher purpose to highlight their importance and promote their usage for older children. The law is well worth it in the big picture.

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/03/new_michigan_law_to_put_older.html

Did you have a chances to vote yes or no. If I had the chance I would have voted yes, but the fact is that we had no say so on this!

approach would be to not place the child where it could be killed in the first place. to do so is foolhardy. you can't kill them if you don't put them in the car in the first place. no driving, no deaths. anything less is a lie.

Booster legislation has been repeatedly proposed over the years in the Michigan legislature. Citizens of Michigan have had plenty of opportunity for public feedback through online forums such as this, through the elective process, and through open and direct communication channels to our elected officials. We've all had plenty of chances to have our say prior to the enacting of the new booster law, and it's rather "sour grapes" to claim otherwise. Rather than allow yet another booster bill to succumb to party politics and fizzle and die in committee, our state lawmakers have finally gotten the message from the public and child passenger safety advocates to make child passenger safety a higher priority in Michigan.

It is sad that so many out there believe that they should be able to mandate other people's behavior. That's all well and good, they think . . . until something is mandated that they disagree with . . . although for some of these people, I wonder if there would ever be a mandate made "in the name of keeping us safe from ourselves" that would ever go too far. For those who love quoting statistics, do some personal research on causes of death. The number one cause of death in America (and elsewhere) is medical mistakes (120,000 per year compared to 41,826 in car accidents). Those "experts" that have been quoted are actually THE number ONE cause of death. The people coming up with all this have all the best of intentions. Everyone is for keeping our kids safe. The problem is that everyone's idea of exactly HOW to do that differs. What is supposed to be GREAT about America is that it was founded on FREEDOM to make those decisions yourself. Now I can just hear the "ignorant" talk spewing from people who think we need to regulate everyone's life at the talk of freedom. After all, "times have changed," we "know so much more now than we used to," "if people knew then what we know now, they'd agree," etc. However, people then did know what we know now. It's just that they understood the value of freedom over safety. As someone once said, "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." (For those who don't know, it has been attrituted to both Benjamin Franklin and Richard Jackson). The point is, our founding fathers, men who were smart enough to understand people's attraction to "safety," also understood that people who are more interested in safety than liberty, don't deserve either. The point is not whether or not booster seats/seat belts make us safer. The point is that we live in a country where decisions like that are supposed to be left in the hands of the individual . . . . even if the individual is someone we think is an ignorant idiot.

My parents had child seats for me as an infant/toddler, long before they were mandatory by law in Michigan. :) They even had seatbelts retrofitted in their cars that were manufactured before seatbelts were mandatory standard equipment in U.S. vehicles. Car safety goes way back in my family, and it's ingrained in my kids. I hope your kids, if you have any, are riding in appropriate child restraints until they pass the 5-step test to fit an adult seat belt.

puckey... i don't believe a word of it.

You find the truth mind boogling, and I pity you.

that you wouldn't regulate as long as it sevres your so called "higher purpose" ? Are you that much of a control freak that you think we need mommy government to pass laws that cover every minute of our lives? You control freak nannies are pathetic. You twits wouldn't know freedom was if it bit you on the big hook nose that you want to stick in everyones business.

The Higher Purpose we should all live by, in relation to legislating other people's actions, are based on the tenets of our founding fathers. They believed that our FIRST priority, our HIGHER PURPOSE should be to advance the cause of liberty in general and protect personal liberty first of all. Contrary to many people's opinions, our founders understood that there were laws and regulations they could make that would make people safer. The point is they chose to make LIBERTY their HIGHER CALLING. They chose to protect individual liberty over government control. It's not that they were opposed to safety, they just didn't believe it was worth the price that was paid. A price they has experienced in their own lives prior to the American Revolution.

No arguement that many people are easily persuaded that laws made to protect us from ourselves are ok, especially (and we hear this a lot) if it is for the kids. Let's take this in one direction first (what next after law is broken?), let's look at what this means; what this means, is that yet another thing can be enforced. Question... will it be? Will it be prosecuted? Answer, well, who knows... Demographics is going to decide this one. Now, let's take this another direction, why are we doing this? Is this for the safety of the kids, the cost of not doing so (worthless lawsuits allowed to go on by lawyers, judges, legislators, lobbyists (all lawyers)?), or because this country (some of it, anyways) is moving to the socialistic mindset (all for the greater good, everyone's the same with the sam *rights*, etc.)? Or, perhaps there is a third way to look at this... Government is here to take care of us all, leave 'em alone why don't we... they take our money, insure our neighbors get an equal shot at life (wealth redistribution), insure we are save (stupid law after stupid law, stupid only in that we are to stupid to do follow common sense without a law). Let the liberal democrats and moderate republicans build a life-time in governmetn, and kick back, wondering why the cost of goverment has not gone up at the rate of inflation (starting back BEFORE social security became the norm). Anyone else wondering if they will see a dime, after the baby boomers suck it down, taking with them the last of the pension days? Look around, and you will see that we are either incredibly stupid, or impressibly lazy, when it comes to the use (or lack there of) of common sense, the main cause for these laws, the thousands of hours that go into enacting them, the hundreds of people involved in the process, and the millions (I know, no one cares if this is not in the billions, or trillions) of tax dollars wasted as governmetn, known for it's efficiencies, puts your money to work and then comes back like your kids, asking for more... Bottom line, as mentioned already, it's the law, no disputing this.. put the !@#$ booster seat in place, and shut up already... remember, we asked goverment to take care of us (ok, some of us did), and that's just what their doing.

the words 'IT'S FOR THE KIDS', i know that what they are REALLY SAYING is... IT'S FOR THE MONEY. every time i hear the words 'IT'S FOR THE KIDS', i know that what they are REALLY THINKING is... YOUR GOVERNMENT DOESN'T TRUST YOU. every time i hear the words 'ITS FOR THE KIDS', i know that what they are really doing is... TAKING AWAY MY RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES AS A PARENENT because they truly believe that they are a better parent than anyone else in the state. every time i hear the words 'IT'S FOR THE KIDS', i know that what they are planning is... TAKING AWAY MY HARD EARNED TAX MONEY FOR ANOTHER PROGRAM THAT THEY HAVE NO BUSINESS UNDERTAKING. all this because they don't have a clue how to really run a state.

Is dying in a car crash "freedom" if you chose to ignore the laws of physics and skip using a proper child restraint for your kids, or a seatbelt for yourself? Freedom to die foolishly, perhaps.

Have you received your income tax incentive rebate yet? A booster could easily be funded with that money with plenty left over for other expenses/savings. Cheaper than high medical bills or a funeral if you forgo a booster/child seat for your child.

able to choose FOR MYSELF WHAT IS BEST FOR ME. not having it chosen for me. seatbelts that are installed today are NOT the best passenger restraint system available. yet i MUST use them. i'm NOT free to USE SOMETHING BETTER.

of people in the country today. IF your concern is safety, why not ban them? it WOULD be the SAFE thing to do. millions of people are killed in automobile crashes yearly. why not just ban the most dangerous item in our lives? or is your ULTIMATE goal NOT SAFETY, but CONTROL?

Banning cars doesn't accomplish much in our car driven society, where most of us need a car to get to work/school etc. Promoting safer crash outcomes by encouraging seatbelt and child restraint usage is a more realistic and rational approach. It's not about control but common sense for those who unfortunately lack it.

You don't like being told what to do to improve your odds of surviving a crash using the existing safety equipment in your car or child restraints on the market? It's a no brainer, really. You're much better off statistically using the seatbelts present in your car than not, and the same is true with child restraints. Not using them greatly increases the chance of being ejected from the car during a crash, and ejection in turn greatly increases the odds of severe or fatal injuries. Surely you can appreciate the notion of improving your odds of survival?

Please don't gamble with your own life or that of your kids purely because you think your freedom to refuse to obey a seatbelt/booster law outweighs the risks of not doing so. Car crashes are the leading cause of death until age 34 in the U.S. and it's beyond time for that statistic to decrease. Teach your kids to buckle up in an appropriate child restraint, and lead them by example, so they will grow up.

"Please don't gamble with your own life or that of your kids purely because you think your freedom to refuse to obey a seatbelt/booster law outweighs the risks of not doing so." You are missing the whole point. Nobody is saying not to buckle your kid in, we are just saying that the creeping nanny state is not the one to decide. If you think they are doing this because they care about your kids then you should seek help now. They are doing this and lots of other stupid things because they are spending our tax dollars quicker than they can raise taxes. Laws like this are a blank check for the agents of the state to pull you over at any time, all they need to say is "I didn't see your kids booster seat lady. How many of your responsibilities are you willing to give up to the state? Maybe we could just put all kids in a cage sorta like a jail cell at birth, I'll bet you the farm that childhood injuries and deaths will fall drastically. Try to be a responsible adult and you may find that you also like freedom.

over to the big mommy government you are going to decrease "your odds of survival" the first time big nanny government isn't there to tell you what to do and since you haven't made a decision on your own in years you will be too stupid to do so at that time. Let me know how that works out for you. or maybe I should go ask your mom.....

"encouraging seatbelt and child restraint usage" I have a problem with an order backed by the force of the government. You are so dependant you can't tell the difference anymore.

You Say "Freedom to die foolishly, perhaps." Freedom has always been dangerous, that's why it scares the pants off of nanny staters like you.

if car crashes are the leading killer... BAN CARS. REMEMBER: it's for the children.

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