Michigan Votes Forum

as usual, beat up and tax the indefenseable. After all, its the driver's fault for receiving a citation, right? State government cannot increase their revenue any other way. So increase the sin taxes (beer, wine liquor cigarettes), put slot machines thruout the state, and then sit back and act like a pimp collecting a larger percentage of the action. Speaking of action, why doesn't Granholm legalize prostitution? As long as it is regulated and taxed, its ok, right?

You crack me up, man. What fantasy world do YOU live in? Dems just got the power back after many years! And we are here to fix your screwed up world! :)

while we bust our butts to get a job or keep our jobs so we can raise our children and hope we can give them some kind of a future in this lousy state we get to pay ridiculous taxes to support an economy that is not worth spitting on and then the governor is making laws that are taking food right from our families mouths while she cojntinues to create more ridiculous ways to cost the residents of this state even more by raising taxes again and punishing us multiple times through the state laws for things that we haven`t done or cant be proven it is very clear that Granholm needs to go out the door with the companies that she is forcing out of this state by raising businness taxes and other taxes that are forcing companies to leave michigan if we let this go on we will all be working in a fast food resturant and living in the streets when she finishes with this state. I guess we have no constitution or any rights as residents of this state. whats next bring back debtors prison or should we just give up and let another country run the state

ready. a dem has been in control for over four years, and she has YET to even START to fix the problems. what's the hold up?

Imagine my suprise when i get a call from my insurance company informing my my license would get suspended for unpaid fees due from this law. I was never aware of this law and am quite shocked and appalled at getting slammed with more fees. I already pay for car insurance, never been in an accident, barley scrape by from paycheck to paycheck and now i owe 300 dollars. I am still a college student, and still live 30 miles from school and work. I think I will get the hell out of this state as soon as possible.

The ticket is paid. Now Jennifer wants more? I really could use the 400 dollars to purchase insurance.....I already could not afford. Dah

Does he mean how to spent our Money? Or stand up for what is right.

Double Jeopardy in Michigan – Crime and Punishment “Checks and Balances” Broken - Driver Responsibility Fees The Framework and Philosophy of the American Government legal system and process is being broken in Michigan when it comes to the principal question: What branch of Government in the framework and philosophy is supposed to IMPOSE punishment for a conviction of a crime? (Only choose one) A. Legislative B. Executive C. Judicial D. None of the above In Michigan: 1. Courts Costs Paid to the Court (Judicial Branch) 2. Court Fines Paid to the Court (Judicial Branch) 3. Court Fees Paid to the Court (Judicial Branch) 4. Driver Responsibility Fees Paid to the State Treasury (Executive) From basic Government Classes one should be able to see and understand that the “Checks and Balances” system has one branch of Government making the laws, one branch enforcing the laws and one branch interpreting the laws and imposing punishment after an individual was arrested and convicted for breaking one of the created laws. Now again, answer the principal question: What branch of Government in the framework and philosophy is supposed to IMPOSE punishment for a conviction of a crime? If paying money is a form of punishment, then Michigan is in full practice of Double Jeopardy. Someone should take this to Federal Court and explain to the court that the “Founding Fathers” “Constitutional Principals” regarding “Checks and Balances” are being trampled over in Michigan. All fees paid to the Executive Branch by act of state law should be refunded with interest. This would set a precedent for all levels of Government. Answer to the above question: Judicial KEY: Set a precedent for all levels of Government - a refund with interest

If the state really wanted to discourage bad driving, the simple way to do so would be to raise fees/fines on a broad range of moving violations. Instead they've decided to tack on a two years of $500 fees to violations that only initially cost you $100-150. Seems a bit odd? Like so many others posting here I was late paying a simple traffic ticket due to other more pressing financial obligations and ended up with a suspended license. For my crime I was hauled into jail for driving on a suspended license where I was lucky enough to enjoy a night in one of Kent County's nicest holding cells with drug dealers, drunks, and inmates with domestic violence charges pending. Aside from speeding I've never broken a single law in this state and I got thrown in jail simple because I couldn't pay one time. To make matters worse I was fined again for paying late, had to pay for my stay in jail, was leveed a $125 fee for not paying the $12 booking charge at the time I was arrested, plus a couple months later I found out about this drivers responsibility act wherein I get to shell out another $500 for another two years in a row. I could barely afford the initial ticket, and because of that I ended up having to spend an additional $1500 (which I also cannot afford). And to top things off I now get to explain to my future employers why I have an arrest on my record. Quality law making gentleman, keep up the good work.

And I'll have to pay another $500 next year! What a bunch of crock this driver's responsibility law is. Getting arrested for drunk driving was bad enough. Now this?

until we say enough. it is politically correct to charge a guy that gets a dui every year. Even felons are done once they pay their debt to society. Recall Jenny!!

I had no idea this was going on till my daughter and daughter-inlaw was pulled over for not having there car insured. Shame on me, I find this to be the biggiest scam against the low income families. I am sure most everyone wants to fallow the insurance laws but keeping food on the table and a roof over there heads becomes the first on the list of money spent, or should Jenny like to see more homless families in Michigan? Michigan will be the big losser when most of our young leave for greener pastures..Jenny needs to get her hands out of the pockets of those least able to pay. Where is all this money going any ways... When my daughter-inlaw went before the judge to see if she could get the ticket reduced he voiced his distain on the fines from the state I hope we can get this turned around..

never got to vote on whether or not we would be charged 500 bucks every year for a dui. it seems that this little 'tax' slipped by us while we were worrying about other stuff (like motorcycle helmets or the opening day of deer season).

She called it a fee so it is not a tax. The average public school educated sheep believes this. What we need to inmpress upon the sheeple is that any money that the imperial state government steals from the citizens is a TAX. You can call a pig a cat but it is still a pig. And to think we live in a state that over half the people thought that she was the answer. Until we can educate all the village idiots we are doomed. Once you convince 51% of the people that you will give them stuff by taking money from thr "evil rich" (meaning anyone that works for a living) then you to could be queen jenny ruling over her subjects everyday.

Reading these crybaby postings along with the Canadian Queen’s rules as to where the fees go makes me want to put a pile on the floor from both ends. 1- the Queen’s fees & fines should be dispersed between the local Gov./police where the infraction happened and the State police. (Screw the general fund, nobody can track the money because everyone uses the same fund with no accounting, which is why we have no money in this state). 2- There is nothing in the MI constitution (or any other state constitution from what I could find) that gives you the right of a driver’s license. It’s a privilege according to the State, which is why they can set their own fines, fees and laws. It also keeps some drunken road-rage anal-retentive from having a license for the rest of their lives no matter what crime they commit while driving. 3- as for the rest of your comments, your either a Republican who wanted Devos as governor, a college brat with rich parents who has to explain why you got another ticket, or trailer-trash who stay on the couch watching reruns of the Dukes of Hazard or I Love Lucy until the last minute and then figure everyone should get off of the road because your late getting down to the 7-11 for a GI-Q and a bag of pork Rhine’s!!!!!

Two years to be fined is excessive. However the judge that sided with you regarding the law should have been beat with their gavel & hanged with they’re robe. The judge & the rest of the high-priced officials are the reason this state doesn’t have any money and we are being charged to death. Starting judge’s w/ benefits & retirement get about 125-180k a year. This state at one time had cheap state PLPD insurance, but the lawyers got big settlements for their clients and the state got screwed so they stopped selling the INS. That’s why we now have no-fault Ins. that costs you your first born, even if you have a clean record. What everyone should be having a stroke over is how they charge for insurance. The area you live in and your credit rating is figured into the mix to get you your insurance price. If that isn’t profiling and unconstitutional, I don’t know what is.

By the way, that ticket you got back in 1988. You owe us another 300 bucks and if you don't pay, you don't drive. Don't even think about not paying cause then we'll pull your license and fine you another 500 bucks. People like you are why this state has a queen and smart people are leaving. You and Your Like Scare Me.

leave michiganistan. i'm two years away. and i will be glad to leave. after living all my life here i will miss my home town and my friends, but, i have to go where i can live cheaper. my income is shrinking and michiganistan is to expensive. i have lived in this new doulbe wide for seven years. my taxes keep going up and i thought that doublewides go down in value ? gas and diesel fuel are 30 to 35 cents cheaper in indiana. cigerettes are 5 to seven dollars cheaper in indiana. and thier roads are better. the governor is penalizing everyone that comes here and, everyone that lives here. she doesn't have to go to japan to bring busniess. she needs to make the climate for busniess atractive enough and busniess will be here. "IF YOU BUILD IT, THEY WILL COME"

The government-related problem with Michigan’s economy well may be that we don’t pay enough taxes to support the quality of infrastructure (roads, school facilities, for examples), essential public services (police patrols and protection, law enforcement, for example) and public amenities (parks, libraries, for examples) that people – including prospective employers -- crave, expect and demand. The general political climate in Michigan is no great shakes, either, for encouraging enterprising and creative people and organizations to locate here. The “bad driver” fees are a bad and regressive approach to generating revenues for the general fund. Those fees should be repealed and the revenue they produce replaced with a more progressive approach to government revenue generation, such as adjusting the state income tax rates upward as necessary. I support SB 509.

I too was unaware of this "law" until my son recieved a notice from the Treasury demanding he pay them or lose his license. He lives on his own and barely scrapes by and had no way to pay this extortion so he is forced to drive with a suspended license. I know of at least 5 others who haven't been able to afford to pay this extortion and now in order to feed their families and make a living they must drive illegally. And if they get stopped then the extortion goes up and up. This law should and must be repealed with amnesty given for those who still owe money to this illegal "law"

This fee was another hidden revenue generator, and violates checks and balances. The Judicial branch should be screaming because the State seems to feel it is more fit to handle punishments for crimes. The only way to handle this is to complain to your State Rep. we can all complain about it but if you don't act it will just remain the same. People make mistakes but not making enough money isn't a mistake why should the paycheck to paycheck citizens be punished by the State? Heres my story 2 years ago I went out had four drinks and got pulled over by a Sheriff hunting over a bait pile. Im a single father of two with full custody and only my income. So after the court was done I got $700 in fines and court costs $295 for impact weekend, and then $500 per year for two years from the State. Since when does the State have the right to over power the Judges? The Judges don't even have control of licensing restrictions anymore. Why is this does the State feels that they have a better grasp on whats fair and just? Whats next abolishments of the Court system implace of a dictatorship. Stand up and be heard and take our Stae and constitutional rights back!!!!

Nice reference to trailer trash, coupled with the moronic view that a license is a privledge. True it is a privledge. There are also licensing restrictions in place to handle repeat offenders other that the responsability fees. The fees were just a way to generate income for the state instead of cutting useless spending. A band aid. The problem is the money collected could better be used if pumped back into the economy instead of the govermental expense account ie general fund.

I dislike the scoff-laws who whine and cry about getting caughtpayhing a fine and being treated "special" thereafter. Let's sock it to them and let them pay for increased enforcement or anything the "Mother-Govenor wants to use the money for such as more jails to put these dopes incarcerated for longer periods. My daughter was cremated in her car. Lost a kid--you haven't felt such pain, for so long so deep; after one of those "I don't give a damn" for the rules people killed her.

The answer is to stop drinking just like I did 36 years ago. You drive in dui condition you pay, agin and again, so stop it folks. The poor, rich or those in between all can stop if they want to stop; if they don't I can't feel sorry for their actions thereafter.

I'm sorry my input was listed as annymous---I'm Ken Eckerd, a former Navy person of 26+ years. Never caught DUI, but should have been the first time I went DUI. No I didn't kill my kid someone else did it--but could have been me if I'd continued on with DUI. My daughter was killed Jan 4, 1986 at US-441 and Sample Road, Coral Springs, FL, by a 31 year old. I guess I'm just not too compassionate for law violators.

that dui is defined as .08 when almost all dui crashes happen at over .2 bac. There is so much money being made off these draconian laws that I fear we will never find a resonable alternative. I know over 10 casual drinkers that have been caught in the state revenue builder they call dui laws. All were between .08 and .11. These folks are a hazard to no one. madd mothers and the state jack up the numbers by using the term alcohol related accident which means that if you have a few beers and trip and fall while walking home you are listed as an alcohol related accident. Sitting at a light after a couple beers and a sober teen ager hits you..bingo, another alcohol related accident. The true number is much much smaller. The cops lose respect, the state loses respect and everyone loses respect for the law when it becomes a revenue enhancment vehicle.

What did the guy blow?

if you are a sober driver and a cab driver, with a passenger in the vehicle that has had even a single drink, hits you, THAT is an alcohol related accident. if you are in the middle of a multi car pile up, and there is one of those 'excursion busses' involved, and ANY ONE of the passengers on that bus has consumed ANY alcohol, THAT is an alcohol related accident.

sorry about your loss. i'm interested to find out what the other driver's blood alcohol content was as well. were any other drugs involved? what other violations were involved in this wreck? not trying to be morbid, just trying to get the facts as they pertain to this bill.

madd and the government skews these numbers to create a ficticious "problem" so that they can save us from it. At the same time ruining countless more lives than drunks could ever dream of. It's all part of the libs/socialists social engineering/control agenda. Unless the sheeple wake up and soon almost everything we do will be illegal.

read this and WEEP. http://courtofappeals.mijud.net/documents/OPINIONS/FINAL/COA/20070320_C264103_44_264103C1.OPN.PDF This law is costing more than it takes in, if you factor in the families forced to go on welfare as they can no longer work.

That is right because it not fair you should not have to pay twice for something you only done once.

I don't know what idiot gave those judged their robes. They need to be defrocked. This goddamn law IS A TAX. Once you fail to respond to SOS, it gets shoved off to the treasury dept. If you fail to pay them or ignore their demand for payment, they can FREEZE YOUR BANK ACCOUNT and STEAL your tax refund. They only have that authority if it's an UNPAID TAX!! Why do these idiot judges not mention the treasury depts role in the process? Did they overlook it? And once the treasure chest dept gets tired of that bone, they send it off to a state run collection agency = Michigan Accounts Receivable Collection System (MARCS). MARCS is a Treasury program operated by a privately owned collection agency that has contracted with the State of Michigan to collect debts on behalf of the Department of Treasury. All the time they're adding MORE interest to the original fee. Something that started out as a $600 or $1,000 PAYUSNOW will snowball into a $10,000+ bill that no one will be able to pay off! My suggestion is register your license plate in a family member or spouses name, one who has a clean driving record, and stay under the cop radar. Or better yet move to a state that will issue you a new license even if it's suspended in MI. But the first step to avoid the leprechauns at the treasury from adding interest is to call them AFTER the 2nd letter and tell those buttheads you're indigent and they're not getting a damn dime even if you just won the lotto.

i am also involved in this governtment impedance of the debt collection and privacy, and one’s most important aspect of life, the way to make a living or (life)for one this law is based on DOUBLE JEP., PRIVACY INFRINGMENT, ONES WAY TO LIFE (the government is actualy braking its own constituional rights ) ok so they want to make a law that involves if that law is 0roken you pay an upfront cost , and then after the courts fines and probation ect costs are paid they send you a “letter in the mail ” that you are somehow responsible for reading it , and because you didnt read or recive it its your fault, thats a scam in itself did you know that in the untied states, that people actually live in their car’s and do not even have a mailbox to send the letter to, or they maby they do and couldnt recive the mail because of a divorce or substantiated reasons., or mr. postman is goofing off, BUT WAIT A MINIUET TEX dosn’t it say somewhere in the constituion that no one person can be punished for the same crime twice (1 paying tickets, court fines and possibly probation cost’s) (2 you “possibly” get a “letter in the mail” about 4-6 months after you are able to afford to pay your court fines, telling them you owe anyware from 200 a year for 2 years or 500 a year for 2 years for a wopping total of 400-1000$ a year per violation( for me this was 2000$ that im still trying to pay btw., first one being for some guy i was just giving a lift having a joint in his pocket =_=, and having pled guilty to it being in my car this is when my nightmare began and because after i paid cort fines / probation fine it was $1100 and because i had moved i didnt get any ” letter in the mail” just when i got pulled over the next time i was informed by the police i was driving suspended , after going to jail and paying bail 200$, and another cort cost driving on suspened for around 300$, but wait theirse more, now for 2 violations i had already paid the courts and probation fines for i now owe the treasury department 2000$ at 500 a year for 4 years , and risk my liceance being suspened again witout ever being informed untill its to late, and im pulled over and the cop tells me im suspened. i had acived QUADRO JEPORDY ! with a chance of the cycle to repeat once more ( if i wasnt cafrull) lets bend our rights while no one is looking shall we ?!?!?? i dont ever remeber being informed to voat on this law, i was 17 for cryin out loud , and i dont recall ANYONE I KNOW OR MET EVER BEING INFORMED OF THE BILL/ LAW EITHER WHEN IT WENT INTO AFFECT IN 2003 I DUNNO, preaty sneaky if ya ask me TEX. but wait theirs more ! I recive a random phone call from a ” collection agency ” calling my girl friends cell phone asking for me ,WHO THE %$#^ said you could give out my number to ANYONE let alon being my girls phone. and when they finnaly get me on the phone they ask me my social securty number , FOR ME this is a big deal, i dont know about others, i dont want anyone to have my social # for numerious reasons at that it opens your self up for all kinds of identy theft scams, i dont want to give it to anyone if if they reall do “work for the governmt” what if this person wanted to run a scam outside of their government job, with so many soc numbers at hand its a conmans paradise, , Then when i ask him what its for he just says ” driver resposibilty ” and i contiute tell him i have already paid it and he says it was for ” illicit drug violation”( by this time i am FURRIOUS) FOR one it was a joint of pot in my friends pocket i didnt know he even had , i had i certanly would have told him wer not driving with it. i dont think a drug used scince the 60’s can hardly be considerd “illict” BUT YOU MR TEX DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO TELL EVERYONE INVOLED IN YOUR MONEY MAKING SCAM TO TELL THEM I USE DRUGS BECAUSE I DO NOT. THIS IS PRIVACY INFRIGMENT AT IT’S WORST (this is the same reason that its against the law for stutends to grade other studens papers at school now, its a privacy infringment) and it most slander/lies and to tell everyone its ok to give your soc over the phone has surely been decived lets promote more idenity theft !!!!lets try to ruin more lives NICE JOB TEX Ok now most people are close to or at poverty level in this country nearly half or not more, in michigan its more likly to be 3/4 of people living here so if your already struggeling to pay bill’s feed kids ect to even make a car insurance payment reguarly for some people is a a maby thing because they just cant afford it , so when they get wraped into this cycaling cash pyramid ( also isnt the deffinition of a pyramid when u sign up for somthing ( your licance is this instance) you keep paying to be involved but recive actually nothing in return (except a valad licance) and no one makes any money except those runing the pyramid in this case the government maby the FTC should look into this ?? or wait they get paid from the government so why do anything that would garnish govenment wages. but for anyone not involved on the money making side of the pyarmid (at the top) everyone else just becomes a sucker, and by not paying the responsobilty fee , the government will do everything they can to CUT YOU OUT OF THE ECONOMY COMPLEATLY by removing your only way to get to work (for some) GEE WIZ TEX why not stop calling your self government and call it MONOPOLY LAND , or DEBT COLLECTORS INC, or WAL MART because your so effective at ruining peoples economic chances in life( while their kids starve , and you get a check in the mail) anyways bottem line of this on is GUESS WHAT TEX, your breaking another const. right , yet again YOUR PREVENTING A -WAY-OF-LIFE-/HAPPYNESS Supprise , your licance or your car IS YOUR WAY OF LIFE without it your gonna starve in michigan. i dont know anyone that can *walk to work* BUT WAIT HOLD ON TEX !!! you forgot what will make your little pyramid law that you snuck into effect in 2003 compleatly and misserably fail, when this is ruled illegal and uncostitional and you have to pay it all back , and you KNOW WHAT YOU FORGOT ? EVERYONE THATS SUPPOSED TO BE DOING CHECKS AND BALANCES,??? YOU SNUCK THIS UNDER THE RUG, UNDER THEIR FEET , AND WHEN “WE THE PEOPLE” RELIAZE WHAT YOUR DOING IT WILL FAIL BECAUSE YOU KNOW THAT EVEN THE MOST POWERFULL AND RESPECTED POLOTITIONS DRIVE TO WORK , OR SOMONE IN THEIR FAMMILY DOSE , AND WHEN IT STARTS TO HIT PEOPLE THAT HELP RUN THE GOVERNMENT, AND THEY FIND YOUR LITTLE MONEY MAKING LOOPHOLES TEX YOUR LITTLE LAW WILL BE DEFEATED AND ALL THE MONEY YOU MADE WILL HAVE TO BE PAID BACK TO THE ONES YOU SUCKED THEIR WALLETS DRY nice once tex. it will eventually collapse double jepordy is a standing law, YOU CANNOT AND WILL NOT PUNNISH ANYONE FOR THE SAME CRIME TWICE NO MATTER THE CRIME ONCE THEIR TIME IS SERVED OR THEIR DUES ARE PAID THEIR OBLIGAION IS COMPLEAT IT IS UNCONSTITIONAL BY ALL MEANS, ILLEGAL IMORAL AND A SCAM AT THAT, SO nice job tex lets just get the lawmakers to make an illgeal law that makes alot of money and sneak it into affect so no one gets to vote against it when no one is looking , and lets call the double jepordy driver punisment ” driver responsibilty fee” so its compleatly disguised so we can actually have a chance to sneak this law into effect, if you are like most ammericans this will outrage you because chances are if your american you probly drive, so everyone is open to attack by this money sucking system if you get pulled over and they find you dont have insurance on you or somthing. my problem should have ended upon paying the court and doing my probation but insted stared a chain reaction of debt upon not reciving “the double jepordy driver punishment letter” or what TEX likes to call the “Driver responsibilty fee” leading to my susspened licance and my next offense and next step into the cycle its kinda like they refuse to forgive me for what i did wrong, and continue to punish me, when my puneshment should have ended in 2003 at the courthouse , not being continued by the dept of trasury , to granholm i say to you TEX i wish the worst things immiganble to happen to you because your destorying my life because of your law i will see to it that you will never see office opportunity ever again. i will personnaly file a class action against your doings and see that its ceased, IF YOU CARE ANYTHING ABOUT THE PEOPLE IN YOUR STATE FALLING VICTEM TO THIS DOUBLE JEPORDY SCAM DO ANYTHING YOU CAN TO GET THIS sham of a law defeated

your story is interesting, but use a dictionary, please. ...wait...I have an idea. Perhaps those who misspell should be charged by the state, say, a dollar a word. It would force Michiganders to be better communicators, while helping balance the budget through fees against those who refuse to check their spelling before posting messages. You misspell, you lose! Those that post, lose the most!

I rather have a heartfelt comment ,full of passion ,than an insult any day. You must be a state worker, as you have nothing better that to sit and insult others, and demand "THEY PAY" you. I payed my DRF , and the state still took my income tax refund. Jenny owes ME $1000...But is not taking my calls.

well mr spelling b champ, i guess you would like to prove me wrong on why the law Should stay and i will prove YOU wrong over and over again on how this is so illegal (regardless of my spelling) because of double jepordy how this is extortion, rights infringments on many levels .. again i could go on ....and on...

If you or I did this the state would call it extortion and jail us. Oops, then they would jail us again, then again then again then maybe fine us. Utter nonsense.

That's what this law is. It should go to a federal court, and be ordered that all fees be returned to the victims. The act of over taxation is a form oppression, it ensures that a lower income person cannot lift themslves up threw hard work and dillegecne. I guess this state government needs some backs to step on to make themselves feel almighty. That's normal for a dictatorship, right?

Low income does not make a person trash. If a person works and doesn't make alot of money, they are not trash. Trash is something that is thrown away or discarded. I guess to the state government and some ignorant citizens the use of these responsability fees against the low income, yet tax paying, citizens is a way of thowing out the trash. Please repeal the law. It doesn't hurt the wealthy, it destroys the poor.