Michigan Votes Forum

Introduced in the House on January 22, 2007

Click here to view bill details.

It should have been illegal in the first place. Once you pay your fine, Jenny should not be able to come back for more money. Anoither naked money grab. Let's hope it passes.

I've said for years that this law violates the double jeapardy provision found in the Constitution. For example, say you are arrested for driving on a suspended license (for whatever reason)...you go to court and are assessed penalties and fines for such. Boom...several months later, you get ANOTHER notice in the mail (after you've settled your debt to society) advising you that you are liable for an additional $1,000 in fines. How do I know? It happened to me. I neglected to pay a minor traffic ticket...resulting in my license being suspended. I was picked up for it. I spent $300 in court costs (driving on a suspended), $125 to reinstate my license, then another $1,000 for the "Driver Responsibility Fee". Read the campaign literature and it tells you the fine seeks to make the roads safer. I don't know how it seeks to accomplish that when the money goes to the GENERAL FUND rather than funds designed to increase safety awareness or to beneft traffic safety. It's just a legalized way to extort more money out of people to infuse cash into a flailing budget...nothing more. In my case, I spent over $1,300 to reinstate my license all because I forgot to pay a ticket for not showing proof of insurance. How does raping my wallet for $1,300 make the roads any safer? I know people who have several points on their license for multiple moving violations that paid less than I did. Who's really the "more dangerous" driver...the one who forgot to pay a no proof of insurance ticket or the one who routinely disregards traffic control devices and speeds? In my opinion, this law violates the Double Jeopardy law because it imposes multiple penalties for the same infraction...one penalty by the city/county that you were pulled over and the other by the State. You can make the argument that they are two seperate sovereigns...the state and local municipality being two DISTINCTLY seperate entities...thereby being allowed to penalize the person seperately for the same offense. But look at the court documents when you stand in court for a traffic offense (like driving on a suspended)...it'll say "People of the State of Michigan versus...". This suggests that it is NOT a seperate sovereign...and therefore two distinctly seperate penalties are being imposed for the same offense by the same soveriegn. It's about time someone recognized this is an unjust law and seeks to overturn it.

Coming back for another money grab is double jeopardy. Once you leave that court and pay your fine...that should be the end of it. This business of getting a notice in the mail several months later saying, "Oh, and by the way...you owe us $1,000 or we're going to yank your license. Have a great day!" is wrong.

Uh, this same bill was introduced in 2005 and the Legislature never did anything. So, you need to contact your legislators and get them to take this up.

I don't know if this is "double jeopardy" or not, since convicted persons are only hauled into court once (although a case on this point is still pending). I do suspect that it violates some provision of the law governing sentencing guidelines, since the so-called "fee" is unquestionably a mandatory minimum fine. By calling it a "fee," and making it billable by the Department of State and payable to the Department of Treasury (instead of to a court as with other fines), the authors of the 2003 act sought to circumvent the long-established principle of law that lets penalties be set by the court after taking cognizance of the offense and the convict's ability to pay. I expect that this sleazy maneuver by Granholm's budget people is ripe for overturning if it is ever challenged in an honest court. I would laugh loud and long if the state were required to cancel the unpaid "fees" and refund the hundreds of millions of dollars collected so far. As a lawyer, the Governor should have seen this possiblility before she signed this in 2003. But she was only concerned with getting your money; she doesn't care if you keep your license, your job, and your home.

it's not double jeopardy, it is in fact, giving the secretary of state the authority to prosecute and punish crimes. the court has already given a determination of guilt and a punishment, then the secretary of state comes along and punishes the offender AGAIN. this is not right. especially since the offender has no recourse but to pay the fine. juries determine guilt, judges levy fines and punishments. the secretary of state issues license plates. it shouldn't be collecting "fees" or fines from anybody for anything other than being late with registration or delinquent in renewing your licnese plate.

Last years bill was sent to the House Transportation Committee, probably to acquire statistics. This years is going through the House Judiciary Committee. So hopefully SOME action will be taken and this bill will pass and eliminate these fees. This "fee" is illegal taxation. They claim it goes to some "fireman" fund, but any excess goes into a "general" fund. That has nothing to do with promoting safer driving. It merely fuels rebelliousness towards an unfair tax on people who NEED to drive by any means to survive, since our idea of public transportation comes from watching the Flintstones. What’s even worse, there is no hardship appeal. You either pay or your license is suspended forever. I doubt even filing bankruptcy would remove the fee. You’d merely elicit a sniffle of disdain from the Treasury department call center operator, clearing their throat to ask if your children’s piggy bank is made of clay or Royal Doulton china with hand painted periwinkles. Good luck moving someplace else also, since a suspended license here means no license there. I would most definitely leave this bankrupt state full of greedy Robert Tilton “pay your bills supernaturally - without driving to work” look-alikes behind, once this fee is abolished and my license is returned. There is nothing good here; politically, infrastructurally, or job wise. In fact this whole country is run by inept politicians who are now asking the citizens for problem resolution ideas. Don't they have any common sense?!! They should have realized before they passed this asinine law, that it was going to outrage people who are suffering in the poor economy of Michigan since 2000. Judges who were consulted BEFORE this law was enacted said that it was a bad idea. The Legislature didn’t care. The leadership of this state is tantamount to Popeye the sailor being in command of a nuclear sub. I can't stand it anymore. I’ve always liked Germany. I think I’ll move back and start a business. At least there I can get a license, even though their transportation system is so excellent I don’t need one.

did this they would call it extortion and lock us up. Queen Jenny gets a pass from the sheeple for some reason. We need a new governor and some sort of poll test to stop this from happening again.

more tax increases are on the horizon. just like i said. beer, wine, cigerettes are going up again. plus if you go out of state to buy booze and cigarettes you will be fined. hey wait a minuete, isn't that budget shopping ??? people, you were sucked in to believe that she is going to make things better. WRONG !!!!! this sorry state is going to fall farther down the tube for FOUR MORE YEARS. will the last person out of michiganistan please turn out the lights and lock the door ....

Thanks very much for taking a stand on a crazy law that really hurts the poor. Wealthy folks could care less about paying these fines. For example, a person with an unfortunate drunk driving arrest would have approximatly $1000 in fines for two years in a row. This amount of money may cause a poor person to loose their license, however a wealthy person would pay the fine and continue on as nothing had happen. Why aren't these types of things thought out before making such laws. It only encourages the poor to drive without a license and before long, enter this circle of getting tickets for driving with a suspended or no license until they just go to jail because they were not able to pay these crazy fines in the first place. Again, the wealthy will not be affected in the least by this kind of legislation. Thanks very much for your help in removing such a crazy law from the books. Lets force our legislators to help balance the state budget without targeting the poor.

I was also penalized with The Driver Responsibility Law and strongly feel that it was not justified. I wrote a check to the secretary of state for $14.00 and i only had $13.00 in my account. My license was suspended and i was informed that i had to pay 500 dollars for two years because of this offense along with the court costs, and an extra $125 to re-instatement of my license. My income taxes have even been taken along with my check being garnished. I was under the impression that this law was for reckless drivers with dui's and offenses of that nature. It seems to me instead it is in place so that the state of michigan can get more money out of you on top of what they are already taking. I was outraged when i read on the back of the notice that you can't even appeal the action, so if you feel you're wrongly penalized your SCREWED!!!

This law not only hits hard on the citizens that receive the fine, but also on the famlies. I am a single mom and it is hard enough with the state not being able to collect child support for my son, but now I have to sit for hours after work, at work so my son can participate in school sports. There should be a hardship clause for single parents, elderley and Low Income. Granholm talks about education for our young, but when they can not participate due to financel hardship, and are owed thousands in Child Support. Is there no offset? When our seniors live on Social Security and are burdened by health issues, is there no relief? When your low income and live week to week and recieve state assistance just to feed your child(ren) is there no room for forgivness?

I believe this driver responsibility law is unconstitutional! It is the duty and role of the Judiciary to try and impose punishment for violations of the law, not the Legislative branch of government. If a Court makes a determination of guilt then they and they alone impose the sentence, NOT part I of he sentence and then the state imposes sentence part II. This is obviously only another avenue for the state to collect revenues, especially when the Govenor states she would support repealing this "law" only if other programs are instituted in order to replace those revenues. She doesn't seem too worried about Justice or improving the public saftey,,,just the money. Please don't run for federal office Govenor!! We couldn't afford that!! Literally :(

Please make every effort to repeal this unfair tax,this law serves no purpose but to collect revenue covertly, I didn't even know this legislation existed. I would have not known about this if not for WOOD TV 8, many people are already suffering with our the poor economic climate, do we need more taxation to make it more difficult to live here or drive more people from our state. I will e sure to contact my representative on this one.

I believe debtors prisions were left behind in England when we came to these shores. You can be fined for so many things now that the ticket itself is a minimal problem. If we need money cut the state budget. I thought a woman would be more able to do that than a man and have been proved wrong. It's not just these unfair "fees", it is that you take a persons drivers liscense away if they owe child support, you take their CAR away and sell it to apply to child support. They can't hold a job so you throw them in jail for not paying the child support and make it a felony so they lose civil rights they have done nothing to have removed from them. Then you charge them 35.00 a day for the jail time and they still have no money to pay the jail or the child support and no way to get a job. They have created a class of people considered criminals that are only unable to find and keep work in our state where we have lost five factories in a two county area in two years. Then they put them so deeply in debt they can never dig out. Now what is the math on that? Well, they all leave the state, change names, get jobs, buy cars, pay taxes and maybe even send the kids some money on the sly. The state can claim to have assets in the hundreds of thousands of dollars owed to them on paper that they know they will never collect but it makes the budget look better. What happened to down sizing government? And while I am at it, what happened to compassion and mercy for our fellow man?

This "Law", or as I like to more appropriately term it, "abuse of power", is nothing more than a cleverly cloaked manifestation of double jeapordy. If you pay your fine, you have paid your dues and should be absolved of any further ramifications. Crap like this is nothing different than being charged repetitive times for the same offense, hence, Double Jeapordy! Granholm is a greedy tyrant and needs to be ousted!

Don't pay and we will take every thing you have away. Boy sure sounds like something the MAFIA would have done. We all are paying so much just to live each day. So PLEASE REMOVE THIS VERY BAD LAW!!!!!!!!

not a chance i paid my fines for my crime 240.00 and wont pay a cent more! jennifer.......i hate you

As quoted from WOODTV 8's web site: "Governor Granholm's office said the governor would support a repeal if lawmakers find a way to replace the money that would be lost from the fines." Of course, as long as the State gets more of our money... This leaves me with one question: Why do people keep voting these libs into office??

I am thrilled that this problem is finally being brought to the public's attention. The problem is it should have been brought up prior to the recent election. The Driver's Responsibility Act was Granholm's way of raising money without saying the "tax" word. She snuck it through the legislature and started handing out the harsh fines almost immediately. Now, not more than 3 months into her new reign of terror, people are realizing how shady she really is. Since she got around uttering the word, tax, in the beginning of her first term, she thought she would give it a try this time around. One of her first acts as governor this term was to propose a tax increase on liquor, cigarettes, and services. Seeing as how getting your haircut, buying a drink, or having a smoke, are all expenses we choose to incurr, she has sought to punish us. She seems to be thinking of every way possible to get Michigan's citizens to hand the state any money that we do not have budgeted to pay our rent, our electricity, or for some of us, our tuition fees. How ironic is it, that Granholm is now proposing an act that would give people tuition money at a junior college, when a lot of the people affected by the Driver's Responsibility Act could be people who are trying to attend a college but can't because of the lack of money. Now, of course, if the act passes, Michigan will be forced to find some other hair-brained scheme to raise the money to be able to pay the tuition. How long will this cycle of creating one law, to pay for another, to fix another, continue. I say we have at least 4 MORE YEARS of it! Thankfully we now have term limits on the governor's office, otherwise some of us might face the decision of whether or not to sell our souls to Granholm next, in order to satisfy her greedy ways.

In our case we were accessed the No proof of insurance driver responsiblity fee of $400 because the court people convinced my son it would be easier to pay the $125 fine than go to court with his proof of insurance. They did not bother to tell him if he paid the $125 he would be accessed a second fee of $400. They must train their help to do this to raise additional funds for the state

This guy would probably love to get an earfull of everyones complaints. Since he seems to be the deciding factor as to how this bill progresses, unless he's working on submitting his own. Rep. Tom Pearce, ROCKFORD Phone: Phone: 1-888-414-3684 - (517) 373-0218 Web: http://www.gophouse.com/Members/Pearce/MonthlyUpdate/monthlyUpdate.htm Middle of his website: "Pearce reviews driver responsibility law" "We recently held the first hearing of the House Transportation Subcommittee on Driver Responsibility to review this law, and heard useful testimony which has provided the insight necessary to move forward in making the law work for Michigan residents"

Is there a law that states someone who has been slammed with these fines can defer their fees pending the outcome of the bill? I cannot afford to pay these, but get told that if I do not pay that they will garnish my bank account! I am an at-home mom of 3, and my husband is the only one working. The money that goes into the bank is for bills we need to pay throughout the month to keep our kids taken care of. So I have no choice but to pay these fines or I will wind up losing more. I agree it is double jeopardy. There must be a way to defer!

Double Jeopardy in Michigan – Crime and Punishment “Checks and Balances” Broken - Driver Responsibility Fees The Framework and Philosophy of the American Government legal system and process is being broken in Michigan when it comes to the principal question: What branch of Government in the framework and philosophy is supposed to IMPOSE punishment for a conviction of a crime? (Only choose one) A. Legislative B. Executive C. Judicial D. None of the above In Michigan: 1. Courts Costs Paid to the Court (Judicial Branch) 2. Court Fines Paid to the Court (Judicial Branch) 3. Court Fees Paid to the Court (Judicial Branch) 4. Driver Responsibility Fees Paid to the State Treasury (Executive) One should know from basic American Government classes the “Checks and Balances” system has one branch of Government making the laws, one branch enforcing the laws and one branch interpreting the laws and imposing punishment after an individual was arrested and convicted for breaking one of the created laws. Now again, answer the principal question: What branch of Government in the framework and philosophy is supposed to IMPOSE punishment for a conviction of a crime? If paying money is a form of punishment, then Michigan is in full practice of Double Jeopardy. Someone should take this to Federal Court and explain to the court that the “Founding Fathers” “Constitutional Principals” regarding “Checks and Balances” are being trampled over in Michigan. All fees paid to the Executive Branch by act of state law should be refunded with interest. This would set a precedent for all levels of Government. Answer to the above question: Judicial Legislative Branch Congress Capitol Hill House of Representatives 435 Members - 2 year terms The Senate 100 Members - 6 year terms "Makes the Laws" Executive Branch The Presidency The White House The President The Commander in Chief 1 Person - 4 year term Vice President, Cabinet, Departments, Agencies and Administrations - The Military "Enforces the Laws" "Enforces the Laws" Judicial Branch The Supreme Court 9 Justices (Chief Justice) State and Local Courts "Interprets the Laws and Constitution" & "Imposes Punishment"

Two ideas underlie the “bad driver fees.” The first is that driving is a privilege that can be permitted, regulated and licensed by the state. (That is how we get to our “implied consent” laws that strip us of fundamental rights in respect to search and seizure.) This has been long established. The second is a “user pay” philosophy that was very popular among Republicans of the Engler governorship era. By that philosophy, those whose activities create costs for the state should be required to pay them. It was a way of relieving tax burdens for the general taxpaying public. Arguably, “bad” drivers do cost the state extra, in terms of enforcement, crash investigations, emergency services, etc. So it is logical that their driving privilege should cost bad drivers more than it does regular, law-abiding citizens. I think the “bad driver” fees should be eliminated. But I certainly do see the idea underlying them, and where that idea comes from.

are simply a way of collecting more money from a segment of the population that the rest of the population sees as 'part of the problem'. 1. accident investigation is a part of a police officer's daily duties. if he's not doing that, he's doing something else. it doesn't cost one dime more for him to do that then it does for him to write tickets, or make arrests. 2. bad drivers don't cost NEARLY as much as the BAD ROADS and the BAD DRIVING CONDITIONS. 3. the bad driver fees DON'T GO to solving the BAD DRIVER PROBLEM. so as usual, the state of michigan collects money which goes into the big black hole of spending in lansing, never to be seen again.

To te Repiublicans, who have ruled the roost in state government for years.

live in? for the last 40 some odd years, the DEMOCRATS have been in charge at all levels of government, it's only RECENTLY that the republicans have come into power. the republicans were only able to come into power because even the democrats realized that the dems in power were screwing up royally.

My sister has been battling cancer for 10 years now. She didn't have health insurance coverage at one point, and her health and prescriptions costs were outrageous! As a result of this difficult financial situation, she let her car insurance lapse, making a choice between her insurance or obtaining her mandatory medicines. Then one day, she drove herself to a doctor appointment, and upon exiting the office, there was an officer waiting. She received two citations, one for lapsed insurance and one for lapsed vehicle registration. She wasn't even moving in the vehicle at the time, it was parked outside the office, and the officer had the time to wait for her to exit. Yes, she was wrong for driving, but at that time she had no one else to take her to the appointment. She still doesn't have her drivers license back, as she can't afford the driver responsibility fines & reinstatement fee. I take time off work to transport her to all appointments and chemo treatments, and that results in my loss of work hours and pay. This has created undue stress for her which certainly isn't good for her health! But, I suppose that the Governor needs the money more than a cancer patient living in poverty doesn't she? Wouldn't it be interesting to see all politicians receive minimum wage, and no paid health insurance, and see how well they would fair in the land of poverty? Maybe if they walked a mile in our shoes, they would have more compassion and comprehension of what it is like to struggle everyday just to survive! Seniors are struggling with these issues and many more everyday as well. The created hardships that poor people are forced to endure have an eerie resemblence of targeted genicide. Our politicians believe they are very clever at masking this to make it appear as something else, but it is very obvious to this poor person, and I am sure to others who are just trying to survive as well! They should be ashamed!!

My sister has been battling cancer for 10 years now. She didn't have health insurance coverage at one point, and her health and prescriptions costs were outrageous! As a result of this difficult financial situation, she let her car insurance lapse, making a choice between her insurance or obtaining her mandatory medicines. Then one day, she drove herself to a doctor appointment, and upon exiting the office, there was an officer waiting. She received two citations, one for lapsed insurance and one for lapsed vehicle registration. She wasn't even moving in the vehicle at the time, it was parked outside the office, and the officer had the time to wait for her to exit. Yes, she was wrong for driving, but at that time she had no one else to take her to the appointment. She still doesn't have her drivers license back, as she can't afford the driver responsibility fines & reinstatement fee. I take time off work to transport her to all appointments and chemo treatments, and that results in my loss of work hours and pay. This has created undue stress for her which certainly isn't good for her health! But, I suppose that the Governor needs the money more than a cancer patient living in poverty doesn't she? Wouldn't it be interesting to see all politicians receive minimum wage, and no paid health insurance, and see how well they would fair in the land of poverty? Maybe if they walked a mile in our shoes, they would have more compassion and comprehension of what it is like to struggle everyday just to survive! Seniors are struggling with these issues and many more everyday as well. The created hardships that poor people are forced to endure have an eerie resemblence of targeted genicide. Our politicians believe they are very clever at masking this to make it appear as something else, but it is very obvious to this poor person, and I am sure to others who are just trying to survive as well! They should be ashamed!!

was imposed by legislation in 2003. That was a year in which the Republicrats had the legislature in a stranglehold.

started when they decided that driving was a privilege. This is a total lie, I am free to do anything that doesn't harm my neighbor or his property. Be very careful with this privilege thing. Once they run religion totally out of the country then our God given rights will become state given rights and this has had very bad outcomes throught history.

you wouldn't need a license.

we shouldn't. A license is just another tax. The problem is that we have let the government have so much control over us that it may be unstopable now. Add to this the fact that libs/socialists/dems want them to have even more and we could be doomed.

the Republicans in your tirade, Troll.

To the ticket victim who wondered if she could defer paying the "bad driver fee" in hopes that this bill is passed: No such luck. Even if HB 4006 were passed today, it would not abolish the fees until the first day of the next fiscal year, October 1, 2007. Victims of suspended-license convictions will continue to accrue the irreducible fines until that date. For drivers with unpaid fines before Oct. 1, you will not get your license back, and the Treasury Department's bill collectors will hound you forever until the bill is paid. Of course, the bill could be amended to provide immediate effect and grant an amnesty for unpaid "responsibility fees." Probably the effective date of this bill is dictated by legislators' unwillingness to disturb the current-year budget, even though the revenue from these fines is largely imaginary. It would be bothersome to have to re-write the 2007 budget to reflect the impact of immediate effect for this bill, but if we're lucky there will be at least some legislators who regard the honor of the state as worth the cost of writing off a few hundred million dollars in revenue. But, no hearing has even been scheduled for this bill.

time ago that all drivers needed a license to drive on the "public roads". we didn't rise up a hundred years ago to stop it, i think it's a little late now.

This bill would dramatically have a positive effect on our family. My husband, when he was in college, got a $100 ticket for speeding. He took a little bit too long to pay it, and then his license was suspended. Then he got pulled over later for something stupid, like a tailight out or something like a repair/report, and the officer gave him a ticket for driving with a suspended license. We can't afford this fee! So he drives around every day with the chance that he's going to be pulled over. But we have a house payment, a new baby and obligations that he has to fulfill. It's ridiculous!! So...I hope this bill passes. He's been driving for the past 3 years, no pull overs. So he's clearly a good driver, just made a couple of mistakes. Let's pray that this bill passes!

This law, is double jeapory, you pay your fines, then higher insurance and then the state of Mi. repeal this law or let the citizens of michigan vote on it