Michigan Votes Forum

As long as the riders foot their own hospital bills-they should have the right not to wear a helmet.

...why should anyone be compelled into paying for the health care of another?

Please ask yourself 2 questions...
1. do you have health insurance? (I do.)
2. How many others that have health insurance are you paying for already? (trust me its not just your premiums paying for you.)
Road trip.

The right to ride with or without a helmet should be an individual's choice. I am so tired of the whole mess. LET THOSE WHO RIDE DECIDE

As a 60 year old biker, I'm getting real fed up with the slow pace of the Michigan Legislature to modify the Helmet law for bikers (SB 321).
31 states have enacted "Freedom of Choice" in the wearing of helmet laws. I know many bikers who want to ride in MI but REFUSE, because of our archaic and restrictive helmet situation.
Gov. Granholm keeps making cuts in the budget! Instead of cutting for once, the modification of Michigan's restrictive helmet rule would increase bike purchases, registration, titles, insurance and in general HELP TO BOOST THE STATE ECONOMY just as it did in Florida when the law was repealed. Wake up Michigan and let those who ride decide!!! The time is NOW!!!

Michigan lawmakers need to do the right thing and pass adult helmet choice into law. Americans deserve freedom of choice, and Michigan's economy will benefit from it. 31 states, including all that surrond Michigan, allow adult choice so let's be in the minority no longer and do it already. It's long overdue. The insurance industry has had it's way long enough. It's time for freedom to be given back to the people of our great state.

let those who ride decide, plain and simple.

adult choice v.s. mandatory helmet laws: Adults in America have freedom of choice. Thats what our great nation was founded on. 31 states currently allow this option. Michigan is in the minority here. If we were to allow adult choice in Michigan, we would only benefit. 1st Michigan riders would finally enjoy the freedom most states currently enjoy. 2nd Michigan's economy would benefit tremendously. Being that every state that surronds Michigan is a choice state, we are being double wammied in tourism revenue. People in surrounding states aren't coming in, and Michigan riders are leaving and spending their money out of state. I'm embarrased to live here because of this law, especially because we are the minority. 31 other states allow this, why can't we get with the program? Michigan lawmakers need to do the right thing and get this done already. We're long overdue! The positives clearly outweigh the negetives. There is no LOGICAL reason to have this old, outdated law. Let's get it done already!!! Brian Frank Livonia, Mi.

The United States is a Constitutional Republic. I don't know where "adult choice" ever came into the debate, but it ought not have. If you disagree with a law and want to have it changed, then get busy and make your opinion known to your legislators. And please do not use "adult choice" as an argument. We do not have the "adult choice" to use illegal drugs, even in the privacy of our own home. I prefer riding without a helmet. The helmet law would not be at the top of my list of bad laws in Michigan. Those who ride and wish to decide; make it known that the responsiblity for medical bills they will hide.

The end should read, "not hide".

This is America, and you do have adult choice, so long as those choices do not endanger other people. Riding without a helmet should be one of those choices. Nobody else is at risk with that personal decision. As far as medical concerns go I understand the OPINION that helmet law modification will cost the medical industry more money, but the FACT is that simply isn't true. If it were than why do 31 states give you the choice, and only 19 do not? If that popular uninformed opinion were true, do you honestly think these other states would pick up the bill? HELL NO. The fact of the matter is states with helmet chioce have a slightly lower accident, injury, and fatallity rate than those with mandatory helmet laws. Proving positive that helmet laws do nothing. Further more helmets do not prevent accidents. Rider education and driver awareness are what make motorcycling safer. Since this choice does not put others at risk, or cost non-riders any additional money, it clearly should be an ADULT CHOICE.

Too many times people make decisions based on their opinion rather then looking at the facts. I have never been in favor of a mandatory helmet law, however my take on the helmet law used to be like my take on the seatbelt law (so what if you are safer it should be your choice, not the governments). I understand the opinion that helmets are safer, however if you look at the facts you can plainly see they are not. After learning this I realized that logic prooved the obvious. Example- If a 6 foot tall hockey player fell on the ice head first a helmet likely would prevent a head injury, he only fell 6 feet. Now if a skydiver jumped out of a plane 5,000 to 10,000 feet in the air and his/her parachute failed to open, wearing a helmet isn't going to do a damn bit of good. The force of impact would do too much bodily damage to be survivable. That same logic can be applied to the motorcycle helmet law. If a rollerblader fell and hit their head on the pavement, a helmet may be helpful. However if a motorcycle traveling 60mph gets hit by a 5,000lb vehicle traveling at the same speed, like the skydiver the helmet is useless. Logic prooves the obvious. If you don't believe me take a look at the 31 other states that allow adult helmet choice. Their motorcycle accident, injury, and fatallity rates are not any worse than states with helmet laws. In fact they are a little better. Another thing insurance companies and other pro-helmet groups fail to point out is that helmets cause neck injuries. Why? Simple physics. Weight times velocity equals force. A 5lb helmet times a 60mph impact equals 300lbs of force on your neck. Thats a lot of force on your neck considering your body weight is enough to kill yourself by hanging. Although I do not favor seatbelt laws, I cannot argue that they save lives. That's why all 50 states have them. Helmets laws clearly do not, that's why only 19 states with strong insurance lobbies have them. I can only hope and pray that Michigan will see the light and modify its helmet law for adult choice. SOON!

OPINION: Helmets save lives and make a rider safer. FACT: Only at speeds under 30mph a helmet may make a difference. A DOT approved helmet is only certified safe up to 13.6mph. Rider education and public awareness make a safer rider. A helmet (or a helmet law) cannot prevent an accident. OPINION: My insurance will go up if the helmet law is repealed. FACT: No state has had higher insurance premiums due to allowing adult helmet choice. Furthermore no state has ever LOWERED their insurance rates when having a mandatory helmet law. OPINION: If the helmet law is repealed injuries and fatalities will increase 25-50%. FACT: States that allow adult helmet choice have a slightly lower injury and fatality rate than states with mandatory helmet laws. If these claims that injuries and fatalities would increase by 25-50% were true, why would 31 states allow adult helmet choice? OPINION: Head injury is the leading cause of death in motorcycle accidents. FACT: The leading cause of death in motorcycle accidents is multiple blunt force trauma injuries to the body rather than the head. Furthermore you are at a greater risk of having a neck injury when wearing a helmet. OPINION: If the helmet law is repealed injured motorcyclists will cost the general public money in medical costs. FACT: Motorcyclists are just as likely, if not more likely, to be privately insured as any other road user. Take into account that less than 6/10ths of 1% of crash involved vehicles are motorcycles, a very small number. If you look at the facts there is no logical reason to have mandatory helmet laws. Let Michigan's riders enjoy freedom of choice like 31 other states do!

Asking for adult helmet choice is nothing special, or out of the ordinary. 31 states currently allow this. All we are asking for is the same rights as the majority of other states currently have. Every state surronding Michigan has these rights, Ohio since the early 90's, Indiana, Illinios, and Wisconsin since the 70's. We just want what our neighbors have enjoyed for years. Why are we the only ones missing out?

I'm so thankful to live in a choice state. Every state that borders my state is a choice state, except Mi. I have riden in OH.,IL.,and KY., but not in Mi. My club does not plan trips in Mi. And everyone that I know who rides will not go into Mi. because of your helmet law. That's a shame because Mi. is a beautiful state and we would love to come up there. A friend of mine who lives in Mi. told me of this site and asked me to log on and post an outsiders opinion. From everything I have seen people would love to ride there but don't because of your helmet law. Why would we when we have the choice here? Hopefully your law will soon change. That would be great! I really would love to ride there. Then I could ride free here and cross all 4 of my states borders and continue to ride free! Good luck!

I was looking at other states laws and only 5 states have more restrictive motorcycle laws than Michigan. Maryland, New York, New Jersey, Vermont, and West Virginia are the the only states worse to live in than Michigan if you are a motorcyclist. I don't even want to mention what these other states do to make riding less enjoyable in fear that some insurance company puppet (like Tom George) will read this and try to pass more ridiculous laws here. The 13 other mandatory helmet states suck equally. I am absolutly ashamed to live here sometimes. I have 4 more years until moving is an option. If our mandatory helmet law is not repealed by then I'm outta here.

All of our neighboring states allow adult helmet choice, and have for many years. In 1989 21 states allowed adult helmet choice. In 1993 there were 25 choice states. In 1999 there were 29 choice states, and today 31 states allow adult helmet choice. The pendelum has swung in favor of choice. Michigan needs to become choice state number 32 NOW! It's time. The time is now, we're long overdue!

This bill is about "freedom of choice". If you want to read theories and you feel more secure wearing a helmet, well that's your choice. That may be the right choice for you, but please don't tell everyone else what is best for them. All we want is the same right to choose that most other states already offer.

Michigan's economy will greatly improve if this bill passes. In 2000 Florida passed a similar bill and their economy improved tremendously. How? In Florida's first year as a helmet choice state new bike sales increased by 40,000. Say the average cost of a new bike is $10,000 (and that is a low average) multiply that by 40,000 new bikes and that comes to $400 million dollars, just in new bike sales. Now figure titles, plates, registrations, sales tax, etc. That figure is now in the range of $500 million. Now throw tourism dollars into the equasion and we're talking in the neighborhood of $1 BILLION economic improvement in just one year, without having to raise taxes one single penny. Even though the economy has been bad Florida's increased new bike sales have have stayed steady over the past four years. As you can see Michigan can only benefit if this bill passes. Economic improvement without raising taxes, not to mention Michigan motorcyclists will be much happier. It's a win win situation.

If it will pick up our economy, lets do it!

They are stalling us riders, they can pas a bill on the flower for clean water but not get to the real fact that they are pushing us off till they break again and we will wait till next year to go through the same crap again.

May is motorcycle awareness month (thanks ABATE of Michigan). I wonder if our elected lawmakers know that. This should have been done in the 2002 lame duck period. Then we were told it would be done last February, then it was going to have to wait until March, now it's May and nothing has been done. Why? I hope motorcycle awareness month includes our elected lawmakers being aware that we want our freedom and are getting really tired of waiting. Let's get this done already!!!

Helmet choice is a personal freedom issue. Just like ordering a Big Mac or having a beer. Shall we outlaw those health damaging activities? In this Land of the Free, personal freedoms must be carefully guarded to prevent government from evolving into Big Brother or "Safety Nannyhood." In 2002, 3,276 motorcyclists lost their lives - total, with or without a helmet. Let's put this in perspective. That same year, more people died in a fire - 4,000. Illegal drugs - 6,000. Alcohol - 105,000. Smoking - 434,000. Let's talk public burden one MORE time... Never mind that bikers are just as likely to have health insurance as non-bikers. Never mind that ALL motor vehicle accidents account for ONLY 1.16% of TOTAL US healthcare costs. The 0.001% attributed to motorcyclist injuries is an extremely small part of these costs. Out of 100% of vehicles involved in accidents nationwide, motorcycles represented less than 1%, only 0.53%. Let's DO mind that... A 1999 STUDY BY THE INSTITUTE OF MEDICINE OF HARVARD UNIVERSITY REVEALED THAT, EACH YEAR, AS MANY AS 98,000 PEOPLE DIE AS A RESULT OF PREVENTABLE MEDICAL ERRORS WHICH COST THE NATION AN ESTIMATED $29,000,000,000. THE STUDY CITES MEDICAL ERRORS AS THE FIFTH LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH IN THE UNITED STATES. Please excuse if I sound like I'm shouting - that's all caps because I pasted it from a Pennsylvania HOUSE BILL: HB 158, found at: http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/BI/BT/2003/0/HB0158P1973.HTM "Public Burden" Perspective: 98,0000 dead patients every year. 3,276 dead bikers in 2002. So I ask, who is the real public burden? Biker injuries that represent 0.001% of all vehicle accident-related healthcare costs? Or the $29 BILLION, 98,000 lost lives, and FIFTH leading cause of death in the US that's attributed to "preventable medical errors" performed by the medical profession that lobbies so hard to put lids on our heads? Sound like a re-direction tactic? Opponents to freedom of choice should join forces with us and spend those lobby dollars instead to start PREVENTING motorcycle accidents through motorists awareness promotion and rider training programs. Not to mention spending their money to clean up their own act. In these days of absurdly rising gasoline costs, riding a motorcycle and reducing our dependence on foreign oil is patriotic! Let us who ride decide what to wear. We don't lobby for mandatory helmets in 4-wheel vehicles (99.47% of all vehicle accidents) or for mandatory helmets on golf courses. I ask you, if your state mandated helmets on golf courses, would doctors drive to a free state to enjoy freedom of choice? Stay out of my closet and I'll stay off your golf course.

Do the history of injury due to not being fatal, what will happen to the COST of motorcycle and auto insurance.

when a state goes from manditory to CHOICE there never has been a state in wich the insurance has gone up. Also when a state goes from CHOICE to mandatory the insurance has never gone down. so to answer your question NOTHING.

It's a popular opinion that helmets save lives, but if you're hit by a car or truck going 50-60mph the helmet is wearing YOU for it's protection. The helmet is as useless as a pea-shooter against a battleship. Let's amend this stupid law.

Many of us are guilty of making a decision or forming an opinion on how we feel instead of looking at the facts. In politics this is referred to as voodoo-science. For example, many people believe that violence we see in movies and t.v. is the reason we have violent people in society. Well that's just plain silly. The world has had violence long before it's had movies or t.v. Movies and t.v. being responsible for violence is a theory, an opinion, nothing more. There is no proof, no documented facts to back these statements up. Therefore if a politician makes a decision on theory instead of fact he or she is believing in and carrying out voodoo-science. We do not need this in politics. The insurance companies are textbook examples of people who practice voodoo-science. They claim that helmets save lives when in fact they don't. ABATE of Michigan and other freedom of choice groups have prooven this with documented facts, the insurance companies would rather believe theories. Anything they have ever claimed has been prooven wrong, and yet Michigan still has a mandatory helmet law! Let's take a look at the facts. 1st, 31 states allow helmet choice only 19 do not. That alone should be proof enough. If the insurance companies claims that accidents and fatalities would increase if the helmet law were to be repealed why haven't they in the 31 states have? Why don't they tell you the numbers of accidents and fatalites in helmet states v.s. choice are virtually the same? Because they want you to believe what they claim not what they can proove. They want you to believe in voodoo-science.

Noooo you have not rode 1,000 miles in one day. To do that you would have to maintain a speed of 50mph for 20 hours. Someone as smart as you should've been able to figure out that simple math problem. Now that we know that you're not credible we can dismiss all the B.S. you tried to feed us. Documented facts in the 31 other states completely discredit your claims. I don't know what insurance company you work for but we're not buying it. Motorcycle riders are a lot smarter than most people think.

Do you think we can acually have a vote and let this bill pass before it dies at the end of the year? Well, this is the communist state of Michigan so I wouldn't count on it. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I fear I will be right. God bless America.

But unfortunatly it is money controlled and the insurance companys have more money than we do. to bad that there are those in lansing when elected forget that it was the citizens of the state that put them there and not the insurance companies. not all are that way but I can think of a couple names right off the bat.

You're absolutely right, this is an insurance controlled state. I can't help but wonder why our insurance lobby is so strong here. What did the 31 choice states do that we haven't? If this bill passes new bike sales would increase. More bikes on the road would mean more insurance policies bought, so even the insurance companies would benefit if this bill were to pass. More bikers would have to pay into the MCCA fund that they can't use. How do the insurance companies lose?

I dont know what the confusion is. I read the SB321 and their is no mention of also having to take any safety courses if you are over 21 and have had your endorsement for at least 2 years. I dont know why even Abate has it worded differently on their site. Did I miss something? Here is the proposed amended vehicle code for SB321 I read at http://www.michiganlegislature.org/documents/2003-2004/billintroduced/senate/htm/2003-SIB-0321.htm "Michigan vehicle code," by amending section 658 (MCL 257.658), as amended by 2002 PA 494. THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN ENACT: Sec. 658. (1) A person propelling a bicycle or operating a motorcycle or moped shall not ride other than upon and astride a permanent and regular seat attached to that vehicle. (2) A bicycle or motorcycle shall not be used to carry more persons at 1 time than the number for which it is designed and equipped. (3) A moped or an electric personal assistive mobility device shall not be used to carry more than 1 person at a time. (4) A person operating or riding on a motorcycle, and any person less than 19 years of age operating a moped on a public thoroughfare shall wear a crash helmet on his or her head. Crash helmets shall be approved by the department of state police. The department of state police shall promulgate rules for the implementation of this section pursuant to the administrative procedures act of 1969, 1969 PA 306, MCL 24.201 to 24.328. Rules in effect on June 1, 1970, shall apply to helmets required by this act. This subsection does not apply to a person operating or riding in an autocycle if the vehicle is equipped with a roof which meets or exceeds standards for a crash helmet. (5) Subsection (4) does not apply to any of the following: (a) A person 21 years of age or older who has been licensed under this act to operate a motorcycle for not less than 2 years or who has successfully completed a motorcycle safety course as provided in section 811a or 811b. (b) The passenger on a motorcycle operated by a person described in subdivision (a) if the passenger is 21 years of age or older.

What helmets have the state police approved? Answer.NONE!

i think u shood ware hemits. the guvorment no more than u. the guvorment shood make choices for u. i think if u dont ware hemits u r dum

I think whoever posted that last comment has wearing a "HEMIT" while trying not to drool on the keypad.

According to the Wisconsin Dept. of Transportation it was determined that, in fatal motorcycle accidents there, 28-29% of fatalities were from head injuries. The percentages were the same (within 1/2%) whether the victims were WEARING HELMETS OR NOT. Specifically, in fatal motorcycle accidents where the victim WAS wearing a helmet, 29.4% of those fatalities were from head injuries. By comparision, in fatal cycle accidents where the victim WAS NOT wearing a helmet, 28.9% of the victims died of head injuries. The Governor initiated a requirement to investigate all motorcycle accidents after Wisconsin modified their helmet law in 1978. This study was suppost to "prove" whether or not helmets made a substantial difference in fatalities of helmeted riders v.s. non-helmeted riders. Wisconsin still allows adults their "choice" on the helmet issue. I think our Governor and our state should do the same. After Florida modified their helmet law in 2000 a significant increase in motorcycle sales quickly occurred. Florida saw a motorcycle sales increase of 20.4% over the previous year. Would such an increase happen in Michigan? I would have to think that it would. If modification to the law creates a 20% sales growth, this represents an increase of 41,920 new bikes. The average cost of a new bike is $11,000. Using the $11,000 figure, the additional sales of new bikes could represent $461 MILLION in direct economic activity. The 6% sales tax could total $27.7 MILLION. In closing if the fatality level doesn't increase due to helmet law modification, and the states economy would improve because of it, what is there to think about? Why would you not support this legislation? Well then, what are we waiting for? Let's get this done already. Let's definetly do this before this years legislative session ends!

I was born in 1939. I started riding motorcycles in 1955 at age 16. Then in 1969 at the age of 30 Michigan took away my right to choose. Now at age 65 I've wasted all of my 30's, my 40's, my 50's, and half of my 60's in this commie, anti-choice, insurance-run state. I only hope that my freedom will be restored before I die. I fought for freedom in Korea, and I've seen freedoms slowly taken away over the years right here in America. I can remember when it was legal to not have insurance much less wear helmets abd seat-belts. I pity the younger generation.

ABATE supports the safety course, they are the one's who created it. However the safety course is state funded and the state doesn't want to pay for it even though they wouldn't have to raise taxes to fund it. They would rather put helmets on untrained riders than educate them. If the helmet law is modified for adult choice, I would support a clause that would make it mandatory for new riders to take the safety course to get their cycle endorsement.

I can also remember a better time. A time when Michigan wasn't a safety-police nanny-state. Remember riding in the back of your dad's pick-up truck when you were a kid? Remember how much fun that was? Good luck trying that now. If you put your kids in the back of a truck today they would call you a bad parent, take away your kids and your truck. I can also remember when insurance wasn't mandatory. It was a lot better then and it was more reasonably priced. Insurance companies actully cared about you then. Your rates didn't go through the roof or get cancelled if you made a claim. Back then they needed your business and they took care of you. It was good customer service. As soon as it became mandatory to have it the rates practicly tripled and customer service went out the window. Let's look back when all this mandatory helmet crap began. It was the late '60s. Back then bikers were seen as outlaws. The federal government passed a bill to enforce mandatory helmet laws. The law stated that it would be up to the state to decide, however those states that did not comply would be punished by not receiving federal highway money.(That is no longer the case). All but 3 states complied. Their reasoning was to promote safety. Do you honestly think for one minute that the government cared about the safety of outlaws? They didn't do it for safety, they did it to get rid of the bikers. Well thankfully they failed, and thankfully not all 50 states complied. After 5 or 10 years came the energy crisis. And after comparing the helmet states to the choice states statistics proved that helmets made no difference. And so in the late '70s all our neighboring states repealed their helmet laws. The reasoning motorcycles use a lot less gas. We now have a similar situation. You are not limited to a 2 gallon gas purchase like in the '70s however gas prices are way too much. Motorcycles still use a lot less gas. This is the closest helmet modification becoming a reality I can remember. I thought in the '70s when all our neighboring states repealed their's we had a shot. Not since then have we been this close. God I hope we can have our freedom like in the good old days. Keep presuring the governor and your senators and maybe it will finally happen.

Thank you for your service to the people of Korea. I am sorry that here in America we continue to lose more freedom every hour. Benjamin Franklin said that the founding fathers gave us "a republic, if you can keep it." Thomas Jefferson said that the tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of patriots from time to time. I hope that we do not need war to restore freedom in this country. I don't want to see brother fighting brother.