“Take It Outside”

Re: what makes an anti-hunter?

gypsy — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:23:01 GMT

I'm afraid you don't see the picture. I didn't say which country was wrong or right, I stated the facts of civilian casualties in war. More Germans and Japanese civilians were killed in WWII than American. That doesn't make us wrong and them right. The Japanese military attacked our military. The US attacked their civilians to save, as you say, thousands of our soldiers lives. Was that right or wrong? We all can make a personal judgement on that. To say the Japanese attacked us without cause is to be naive. To say it was right or wrong is again a personal opinion. The Germans attacked England, we came to Englands aid, rightly so in my opinion, but still an opinion. The English, along with the Americans and other allies, fire bombed Dresden, killing many more civilians than the bombing of London. Some have classified it a war crime. You be the judge. The Germans murdered 6 million Jews. Does killing German civilians balance the scales?

My "presentation" in no way supports the actions of oppressors. It supports the right of civilians to be safe in their homes and towns rather than made the sacrificial lamb for the actions of any government, ours or foreign countries. I don't wrap myself in the flag, claiming my country right or wrong. I love my homeland, and strive to make my government live up to our professed ideals. I hope for peace, not just here, but throughout the world. Our "current president" seems to have that goal also.

What you are "remembering" is a feeling that we are always on the right side of war. We are not. There have been times in our history when we were on the wrong side. I love my country enough to forgive her those errors, and do my part to keep her on the right side, or better yet, completely out of war.

I didn't spit on you. I was too busy working to support a family to protest the Viet Nam war. But I respect those that did, and those that were forced, or felt the need, to fight in an unnecessary war. Glad you made it back. I hope neither you or your children ever have to fight an unnecessary war again.

BTW, I'm not anti-hunter. Don't really know why someone started this thread. Maybe one of those NRA dudes who thinks it's more important to have a gun than a job.

Re: what makes an anti-hunter?

Al T — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:10:49 GMT

I see the picture now. A person such as the current president that denounces American and presidential integrity to appease the crowd that will listen. Foreign countries that declared war on the U.S. such as the Japs and Germans in WWII are the innocent parties as were their citizens. Young and old citizens in London during the german bombardment meant nothing, Pearl Harbor meant nothing, 9-11 meant nothing because it is outside your ideals of world peace. You express your hatred for war time presidents and military, but only those of the United States.

I have no memory loss. I remember quite well who bombed who and the reasons America reacted. I remember the statistics presented concerning the use of the atom bomb on a country that attacked the U.S. with out cause, that saved hundreds of thousands of American soldiers and civilian lifes. I remember the revolutionary war being fought to create the United States, I remember the civil war being fought to free the slaves that made them free Americans. I remember the Alamo. All the above I was not there physically but as an American I was there. I remember the hippies that spit on my uniform as well others. (I was there and it appears you may have been one that was doing the spitting).

As you go back in history your presentation appears to support the actions of the oppressors, those that created the wars you speak of. As our current president you have blame for the U.S., its soldiers, leadership and people. I guess my American flag flies for different reasons than yours if you have one.

This thread started as a question about anti hunters then it got off on anti American. Back to anti everythings of which there are many including the anti hunter, anti firearm, anti constitutionalists. You walk in your shoes and I will walk in mine. Take care Gypsy, God Bless

Re: what makes an anti-hunter?

gypsy — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 02:46:25 GMT

There are in fact quite a few military personnel who are responsible for, and thereby agree, with civilian casualties, whether they say it or not. My Lai, Wounded Knee, the Dresden fire bombing, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Iraq (both the Gulf War and the more recent war) and Afghanistan, to name a few of the USs' attacks on civilians.The military even has a name for expected civilian casualties, colateral damage.

If you were spit on returning from Viet Nam, you can finally verify this urban myth. I lived through those years, and saw or read of no returning vets being spit on. In fact, many vets joined the war protesters on their return. This myth was used by Bush the First to gain public support for the troops, and thus his Gulf War, and latter expanded on by his son to again concentrate the publics patriotism on the soldier, and ignore the reason, or lack of, for the war itself.

As for Commanders-in-Chief who have intentially caused civilian casualties, not accidents, I am surprised at your memory lapse. I will just name a few of the more recent. With a little research you can find more. Truman, Johnson, Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Bush II.......

We don't have to "walk in the shoes" of these men to know what they did, and why they did it.

Re: what makes an anti-hunter?

Al T — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:15:55 GMT

Gypsy,

I couldnt agree with you more that we do have our right to present opposition to actions not to your liking. There is not one military person present or past that will say that they agree with citizen casualities. I remember the rights expressed by those that opposed the viet nam war when I arrived back in the U.S. as a soldier that did a tour of duty. I remember getting off the plane and while exiting the gates having those that have the right to their opinions spit and throw stuff on myself and others that accompanied me back to our earned soil.

I have not been able to remember one military personel that felt good about citizen casualties and that is true today. There has not been one President, (Commander and Chief) that has personally caused casualties against civilians with intent to do so from our country. Other countries yes. I can not figure out how anyone can blame a President of the United States or military personel for accidental civilian casualities. To see the big picture concerning accidental deaths of civilians by military personel we would all have to walk in those shoes as so many have.

Re: what makes an anti-hunter?

gypsy — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 09:48:20 GMT

Al T:
you have no right to comment

Yes, you do.

The fact you haven't done something you don't approve of doesn't surrender your right to voice your opinion.

Re: what makes an anti-hunter?

FreeSpeaker — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:10:25 GMT

Al T:

In all wars there are casualties and as far as American soldiers are concerned civilians were suspects not targets and unless you have been there you will know nothing about it. You have no right!

Bunk.

Re: what makes an anti-hunter?

Al T — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:45:46 GMT

If you were not there or did not go through the process of survival and no nothing about enemies within concerning some civilian forces you have no right to comment on what those that were faced with survival under times of war had to endure. Those that have never been their live in a fantasy world. I suppose if you were walking in the park and someone was going to cut your family with a knife or shoot them with a gun you would just stand there and let it happen because the criminal is a civilian.

In all wars there are casualties and as far as American soldiers are concerned civilians were suspects not targets and unless you have been there you will know nothing about it. You have no right!

Re: what makes an anti-hunter?

gypsy — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 23:48:48 GMT

One thing I can see jmangan has done to enhance the community here is to present a rational alternative to irrational discourse.

Re: what makes an anti-hunter?

Al T — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:33:23 GMT

Whew, typical liberal blaming the debt on past presidents. If you go back farther than Bush you will see where it started including the democrats agenda to turn our country into a socialist country. Clinton broke the rules concerning his immoral actions while in office but I guess you liberals consider a president that indulges in infidelities and immoral acts okay in your books. It is not in my best interest to have a president that will not even provide a birth certificate to prove his eligibility as president to the citizens of the United States. Above and beyond the law is the choice of voters these days.

Concerning anti-hunters I am very well versed in their actions and activities. If you or anyone think that wild animals can co-exist with out the God given activity of hunting as stewards of earth you and they need to attend a school in reality. Most anti hunters incorporate their anti everything beliefs. 1. With out hunting there is no need for guns 2. Animals are equal to humans and have the same rights as humans even though they are animals. As Ingrid Newkirk from PETA state a pigs life is as valuable as a human childs life.

Hunters are managers who put the rules inplace to control over hunting as well as abuse of the animal. No other group can even come close. There are three groups. 1. Hunters 2 anti-hunters ( who do not want anyone to do something they wouldn't) 3. Non Hunters ( who chose not to hunt but are not radicals who want to impose their feelings on every one else)

As I said if anyone thinks that animals can co-exist and believe hunting should be abolished, they should get out of their city areas and move where there are many potentially dangerous animals that could pose a threat to families as they have in the past and will in the future.

jmangan, I see that you are stimulated to believe your own wash and not that of others. Because someone doesnt agree with you and your political preferences you accuse them of hating America by asking such a stupid question. Seeing you are so good at asking questions maybe you could tell us what you have done to enhance your community or your government that makes your opinions so much more important than others.

Re: what makes an anti-hunter?

crazycajun — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:19:32 GMT

sorry jman...

you asked to be nannied. over and over and over again.

i'm only granting your wish.

not very pleasant, is it?

you gave up responsibility for your health and welfare. you gave me the responsibility.

no. you cannot have it back.

it's amazing how your tune changes when you realize the error of your ways.

it's also amazing how inconvenient democracy becomes when a democrat doesn't get his way.

Re: what makes an anti-hunter?

jmangan — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:16:23 GMT

There you go insulting me again. Out of ideas, out of talking points, so resort to the insult.

As for you being anyone's "nanny", seems as since you follow the Republican ideology, and I am a Democrat, and Democrats are in the majority, that would indicate I am taking care of you, in a political sense.

I don't mind either. I'm sure you have some good qualities, your just keeping them well hidden under all that bluster and bs.

Re: what makes an anti-hunter?

crazycajun — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 17:46:16 GMT

sorry, jman. that is your express desire. it's what you ASKED FOR when you placed me in the position of responsibility for you even after you were warned of the consequences of such actions.

you have no one to blame but yourself.

consider it the ultimate outcome of the nanny state.

you asked for it... you got it.

by the way, as your nanny, i ban you from thinking. you're not very good at it and someone MIGHT get hurt.

Re: what makes an anti-hunter?

jmangan — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 02:56:18 GMT

crazycajun:
but you USE the majority to impose your will with the iron fist of government.

That's called democracy.

crazycajun:
that's okay, as your nanny, i have banned you from voting, as you may vote to pass 'unsavory' legislation that would increase your rights and freedoms. you may not vote again ever.

That's called your secret wish.

Re: what makes an anti-hunter?

crazycajun — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 01:43:22 GMT

but you USE the majority to impose your will with the iron fist of government.

that's okay, as your nanny, i have banned you from voting, as you may vote to pass 'unsavory' legislation that would increase your rights and freedoms. you may not vote again ever.

you wanted to be nannied. you got it.

Re: what makes an anti-hunter?

jmangan — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:12:38 GMT

Not at all. I respect the minority view.