Political Discussions

Re: why should we believe what the left says?

bugman — Sun, 29 Mar 2009 22:21:45 GMT

nationalization is state owned banks, not necessarily state operated banks.

Re: why should we believe what the left says?

gypsy — Sun, 29 Mar 2009 18:37:39 GMT

Nationalization would techinically be operating the banks. At this point, although the government may hold a majority of the outstanding stock of some of them, they are not operating them.

Re: why should we believe what the left says?

bugman — Sun, 29 Mar 2009 01:25:05 GMT

how is the government owning 88% of a bank, and purchasing more not nationalization? that makes the government the majority stockholder in those banks. that makes government the boss of those banks. how is that not nationalization?

Re: why should we believe what the left says?

gypsy — Sat, 28 Mar 2009 22:50:36 GMT

The president isn't planning on adding 10 trillion to the debt. The OMB, in their report, says the national debt could increase by 9.3 trillion in 10 years with Obama's budget. I'm worried about it yes, but a budget is a projection, as anyone in business knows. Conditions change. Stay tuned.

Do you not want to pull out of Iraq? At what point would you?

Gross domestic product (GDP) is defined as the "value of all final goods and services produced in a country in one year". On the other hand, Gross National Product (GNP) is defined as the "value of all (final) goods and services produced in a country in one year by the nationals, plus income earned by its citizens abroad, minus income earned by foreigners in the country". The key difference between the two is that GDP is the total output of a region, eg. France, and GNP is the total output of all nationals of a region, eg. French. GNP is less used than in the past, as many countries have many citizens working abroad. Because of this, GDP is becoming a more popular measure nowadays.

The government has bailed the banks out, and own large shares of them. That is not nationlizing them.

Re: why should we believe what the left says?

bugman — Sat, 28 Mar 2009 21:06:55 GMT

our current president is planning on adding a ten trillion dollars to that. almost doubling the debt overnight. we are planning a 'pull-out' in iraq to bolster afghanistan. i'm talking about taxing to 10% of gross national product, not gross domestic product. and if you think that the current bailout has not changed ownership of the banks to the government, you need to watch your alphabet news. it has already happened on your current president's watch. which, of course means he gets an unconditional pass for it.

Re: why should we believe what the left says?

gypsy — Sat, 28 Mar 2009 20:47:35 GMT

The national debt is now over 11 trillion. Obama inherited that.

We are not surrendering in Iraq.

The tax rate as percentage of GDP, which is how it is measured, is 28.3% now.

We have not nationized, nor are there plans to, any banks. It has been suggested by some republicans though. Sen. Graham for one.

Re: why should we believe what the left says?

bugman — Sat, 28 Mar 2009 20:25:37 GMT

do you consider the current administration's plan of raising the debt by ten trillion dollars, surrendering in iraq, taxing at 15% of g.n.p. and nationalizing the banks is reform? or socialism?

Re: why should we believe what the left says?

gypsy — Sat, 28 Mar 2009 14:46:03 GMT

I felt the same way for eight years. I'm glad I was able to persevere.

Re: why should we believe what the left says?

bugman — Sat, 28 Mar 2009 12:55:13 GMT

no one has suggested the overthrow of government or revolution. as for your outrage being focused on reform, i don't see much chance of reform with the current government.

Re: why should we believe what the left says?

gypsy — Sat, 28 Mar 2009 02:09:07 GMT

My outrage is focused on reform, not revolution.

Re: why should we believe what the left says?

bugman — Sat, 28 Mar 2009 00:25:53 GMT

where is your outrage over the injustice, greed, and corruption? all are forms of tyranny. injustice takes away rights and freedom. greed takes away the people's treasure. and corruption is evil in the face of the public trust. may i trouble you not to give those who are unjust, greedy, and corrupt a pass?

Re: why should we believe what the left says?

gypsy — Fri, 27 Mar 2009 20:04:50 GMT

May I butt in on this conversation with yourself?

There is not tyranny in this state, nor in this country, in my opinion. There is injustice, there is greed, there is corruption. There is also alot of really hard working and devoted citizens, both in and out of government, who want to make our system work. Put me in that category. I'm not ready to give up on this government yet.

Re: why should we believe what the left says?

bugman — Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:47:55 GMT

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Re: why should we believe what the left says?

bugman — Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:28:59 GMT

gypsy:

"for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

Thomas Jefferson

i ask you again, where is your outrage for the tyranny being forced upon the citizens of this state?

Re: why should we believe what the left says?

bugman — Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:27:05 GMT

in my mind, words have meaning. say what you mean, mean what you say.

do you only believe what you can verify? no. why say it if you don't act on it? to gain 'credibility'? the question was why should we believe what the left says. you have not given any reason to believe what they say. the left has a tendency to say one thing and do another.

if you refuse to educate yourself, then how do you know what the truth is? how do you know who to trust? how do you know who not to trust?