Civil Law

Re: 2009 House Bill 4131 (Allow two unmarried persons to adopt a child )

Educated&Employed — Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:17:22 GMT

If you ever looked to adopt a child, you would see that there are many more male children up for adoption compared to female. If you just wanted a child to love, boy or girl, which waiting list would you choose? the one that has many (male) children available to increase your chances of getting one, or the (female) list and just hope that someday - years and years later - you might get chosen to be a parent. CrazyCajun you need to see the obvious rather than being so ignorant about adoption and homosexuals.

Re: 2009 House Bill 4131 (Allow two unmarried persons to adopt a child )

OTRDriver — Sat, 25 Apr 2009 22:04:18 GMT

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Crazy.. First off I want to say, "Your Name Says It all" ! And I often wonder how in the world you have the time to watch and post all the opinions you have on all the topics you seem to be so well versed in.

Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 I would hazard a guess that you are sitting in front of your computer with absoutly nothing else to do. Yes I would bet you are on welfare, or some form of financial assistance.

With that said, here is some justification as to why we need this legislation here in Michigan.

I was just going to post the link but I doubt you would have gone to it anyway.

By Jeanie Lerche Davis
WebMD Health News

Reviewed by Charlotte E. Grayson Mathis, MD

Feb. 4, 2002 -- Children thrive in same-sex families, studies have shown. Yet in most states, the co-parent -- the second parent -- is not allowed to adopt the child. That should change, says the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP).

"When two adults participate in parenting a child, they and the child deserve the serenity that comes with legal recognition," says a statement issued by the AAP's Committee on Psychosocial Aspects of Child and Family Health. The statement appears in the current issue of the medical journal Pediatrics.

"The Academy supports the legal adoption of children by co-parents or second parents," says the statement. "Denying legal parent status through adoption ... prevents these children from enjoying the psychologic and legal security that comes from having two willing, capable, and loving parents."

In the statement, the committee says when the law recognizes co-parent adoption, it produces these benefits:

It guarantees that the second parent's custody rights and responsibilities will be protected if the first parent were to die or become incapacitated.
It protects the second parent's right to custody and visitation if the couple separates.
It establishes the requirement for child support from both parents in the event of the parents' separation.
It ensures the child's eligibility for health benefits from both parents.
It provides legal grounds for either parent to provide consent for medical care and to make education, healthcare, and other important decisions on behalf of the child.
It creates the basis for financial security for children in the event of the death of either parent.

It's time to stop looking for problems in gay and *** parent-child relationships, says Ellen C. Perrin, MD, a professor of pediatrics at Tufts New England Medical Center in Boston. Perrin served as a consultant to the AAP committee. Her technical report also appears in this month's Pediatrics.

"There's very clear research showing that children whose parents are gays and lesbians are not at any disadvantage compared to children of heterosexual parents," she tells WebMD. "They grow up like any other kid. There are no data that suggest there is a special problem conveyed to those children. We can feel pretty comfortable about that."

Also, research shows that gay and straight parents have similar attitudes toward parenting, Perrin says, adding that all parents want to do the best they can for their children.

The child's emotional and cognitive development -- their ability to perform well in school and in jobs -- is just like other children, she says. "It's indistinguishable." Children's play and friend choices and interests are all exactly consistent with their anatomic sex," she says.

In fact, children growing up in gay homes seem to be "more tolerant of diversity, which is certainly of value in our multicultural society," Perrin tells WebMD. They also seem to develop different coping mechanisms. "The children also seem to be less aggressive, more nurturing at a young age -- in preschool and early elementary school. They seem to be able to resolve conflicts in a less-aggressive way than other children."

continued...

But are the kids more likely to be gay? Both environment and genetics do seem to help determine gender identity, says Perrin. However, two long-term studies -- in which the children are now aged 30 -- show that gay families don't produce more gay kids. While the data aren't definitive, they "would suggest there is no difference," she tells WebMD.

Children of gay parents may be more likely to experiment, however. The long-term studies show that both boys and girls indicated they would be more willing to think about the possibility of a same-sex relationship, says Perrin.

Allowing co-parents to adopt is crucial, she tells WebMD. "There are legal issues plus the emotional security of knowing they can have continuity in their caretaking relationship."

"There's a lot at risk," Perrin says. "If the one legally recognized parent gets disabled or dies, the child is left out of luck. Legally and financially, it's a very big issue. If there is a separation between the parents, there are emotional issues. One parent -- someone that child has known for maybe 10 years -- suddenly has no rights and the child will never see them again. These are big issues."

Re: 2009 House Bill 4131 (Allow two unmarried persons to adopt a child )

changeagent — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:42:32 GMT

In a perfect world I suppose it would be better to place children with good heterosexual parents. However, there are certainly worse circumstances out there than having a loving gay couple raise a child. There are plenty of bad heterosexual parents and a well screened gay couple is very capable of raising a child.

Do we need this law? I don't really know enough about the adoption process to know.

Re: 2009 House Bill 4131 (Allow two unmarried persons to adopt a child )

Krgenaw — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:44:35 GMT

I dont agree w/this bill. I agree that its a crime that there is even 1 child in this country up for a adoption w/all our riches, w/all our endless support for families in need - it doesnt make sense BUT it doesnt justify giving a child to gay folks. They can never provide what every child has a right to - a Father and a Mother. The desire to mainstream, normalize, be accepted - whatever you want to call it, doesnt trump denying a child to a lifetime of true Motherhood/Fatherhood. Our laws, communities, neighborhoods, churches, schools need to solidly get behind supporting the traditional family. Its fallen apart over decades of divorce, abortion being 'ok', kids in state run facilities from birth till highschool, and both parents working for all the growing up years ---- the children suffer from lack of constant, consistent , nuturing, direction toward personal responsibility, and being others focused. Instead, the T.V., video games, same age peers and total strangers develope a child's sense of self. We have complete generations of children w/no focus except themselves - and it is our fault. And even after all that i still dont agree w/homosexual adoption... I have no stats or figures to 'validate' my claim and I feel sorry those who think they're doing right by a child to bring them into a gay household.. but i still dont agree..

Re: 2009 House Bill 4131 (Allow two unmarried persons to adopt a child )

valent60 — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 14:46:09 GMT

Many gay and *** people take in foster children and adopt the kids that heterosexual people can't take care of properly.They take in the "throwaways." Are you a foster parent? Have you adopted?

It is a completely natural environment. I don't know if you know gay and *** people, but it's not a political agenda. It's being true to how God (or another higher power - whatever you believe) made them.

In addition, some heterosexual couples can't have children due to fertility issues and are not able to procreate naturally - they defy "simple biology". Maybe God doesn't want them to have children and then it would be unnatural for them to be parents?

Our society is changing and our laws need to change in order to protect children. Gay and *** people are having children and not passing this bill isn't going to stop them. They've been rearing children for centuries without legal protection for the children. Regardless of your thoughts on whether or not you believe it is moral, is irrelevant. Research has shown that children flourish in a two parent household regardless of the parents' sexual orientation.

It is hubris to think that one way of living (heterosexual) is right. We all have our own personal relationship with God and it's none of your business posing your position on others. We live a nation that values (or supposed to value) separation of church and state for the benefit of citizens. Children need to be protected under laws. If this law protects them by giving them health insurance, inheritance rights, etc and lets both parents give necessary medical authorization when accidents occur - so beit. It does not threaten "heterosexual marriage" it only offers protection to those who need it. If you don't need this protection then it won't effect you.

Re: 2009 House Bill 4131 (Allow two unmarried persons to adopt a child )

SusanHill — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 14:30:51 GMT

Allowing homosexuals to adopt children defies simple biology. Homosexual couples are not able to procreate naturally. This should tell the open minded thinking person that this union is not a natural environment for any human being most especially children. Truly, biology has all of this worked out and it’s been under the control of basic science since the bringing of mankind. What unbridled hubris to think that we need to “correct” biological science and create an unnatural environment for children to satisfy a political agenda.

Re: 2009 House Bill 4131 (Allow two unmarried persons to adopt a child )

valent60 — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 02:52:50 GMT

All children deserve the right to be cared for by healthy and devoted parents. House Bill 4131 is above else a child welfare bill. Research has consistently shown that children flourish psychologically, academically, and socially when raised in a loving and healthy two parent home. Granting this opportunity should never be denied regardless of the parents’ sexual orientation. I would also like to remind you that being gay or *** is not a mental illness. Many gay and *** people are parents. 33% of female same sex couples and 22% of male same sex couples have a child under the age of 18 in their home. There is no scientific evidence for concluding that *** mothers or gay fathers are unfit parents. and heterosexual women have not been found to differ markedly in child rearing approaches. Research suggests that same sex parents are just as likely as heterosexual parents to provide supportive and healthy environments for their children. Some studies suggest even that *** mothers’ and gay fathers’ parenting skills may be superior to those of matched heterosexual parents. In regards to a child’s development, gender identity, gender role behavior, and sexual orientation develop in much the same ways among *** mothers as they do heterosexual parents. This is the same in other aspects of development such as personality, self-concept, and conduct. Research also demonstrates that children of gay and *** parents have normal social relationships with peers and adults. Overall, research suggests that the development, adjustment, and well-being of children with *** and gay parents do not differ markedly from children with heterosexual parents.

I can provide references if anyone would like.

I don't know why but when it posted it turned the word "***" into ******

Re: 2009 House Bill 4131 (Allow two unmarried persons to adopt a child )

uber-liberal — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 12:13:03 GMT

isn't marriage discrimination the job of religion, not politics? i wonder if the law might just in some small way parallel some religious beliefs? who knows, to start messing around in such matters might be considered by some to be starting a new "secular" religion.

sort of "damned if you do and damned if you don't".

Re: 2009 House Bill 4131 (Allow two unmarried persons to adopt a child )

TrueBlue — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 03:39:02 GMT

This topic is a non-issue for me but............

I guess I wouldnt really see a purpose for this legislation, except for the fact that all people are not allowed the same human rights as others to be allowed to marry, so I guess it is necessary.

Until marriage discrimination is ended, I guess I am FOR this legislation.

Re: 2009 House Bill 4131 (Allow two unmarried persons to adopt a child )

silence dogood — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 16:18:53 GMT

perhaps we need to take a candid look at why we don't allow non-married couples to adopt now. what mores are at play here, and how we came to the decision not to allow 'that kind' of adoption.

Re: 2009 House Bill 4131 (Allow two unmarried persons to adopt a child )

polarbear — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 14:29:49 GMT

Theres a bill passed that allows social services to call "relatives first" before forcing a child into foster system or adoption,hopefully courts will use this new law, this bill was passed because there are so many children in the overcrowed system ,once a child is pushed into it, its hard for relatives to legally get the child . However with so many children waiting for someone to care, to get them out of foster game of moving place to place. Point of both, is reality ther are some who don't deserve to adopt, and agencys will not take time to check on all. Parents rights are being taken away so easy, children are forced into foster home,or put up for adoption faster,get them in get them out money for system, Perhaps Mich. should have a open adoption law, for all these unwed mothers, or changed dna laws get real fathers. It is always a domino effect, the legislature don't get it . Different adoptions need different code laws. but yet Mich only has direct adoption the point is there is not even a relative adoption code law, but yet unmarried couples want a new code law to adopt. Cart before horse. Pass a "relative adoption code law" first, then work on a unmarried couples adoption.

Perhaps to nip it in bud, mich. needs to give out free birth control methods. There are many couples who adopt or have children and are not married,(pitt-angl) subject is to allow two unmarried couples to adoption in Michigan. Children are influenced by people who raise them, wheather its walmart people, or a gay uncle, hopefully social service or courts choose wisely, whom will care for a lonely child.

Re: 2009 House Bill 4131 (Allow two unmarried persons to adopt a child )

uber-liberal — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 20:59:11 GMT

okay sane... why DON'T you answer cajun's questions? you use the 'old change-the-subject gambit', 'the old name-calling and labeling move' on a daily basis. why shouldn't cajun, and everyone else for that matter, use them too?

you say you enjoy 'calling out' cajun, but when 'called out' yourself, you fudge. you squirm, you hide, you evade, you change the subject, you call people names like 'idiot jester'. but you never, never, ever answer the question.

if you want to hear some funny stuff, you should hear what the high school students call you. by the way, you are the least popular character in the 'mock debates'.

Re: 2009 House Bill 4131 (Allow two unmarried persons to adopt a child )

uber-liberal — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 13:28:52 GMT

i would imagine cajun does it for the same reason you do it. tell us why you evade questions first, then i'm sure that we can get cajun to tell you why he evades questions. of course, if you start answering questions now, it just wouldn't be the real you.

you haven't told us why you think we need a law to accomplish what you say every liberal in the country is in favor of, but none have voted for. when i was a liberal, i was against homosexual marriage on the grounds that it accomplished nothing concrete except clogging up the courts with more useless fooferah. two men in a long term, stable relationship gain nothing by being 'married'. they are both allowed to a tax exemption if one is employed and the other is the 'stay at home'.

they still get to claim interest on home purchases, and still get to claim their partner's expenses if he is sick and needs major hospitalization. what they CANNOT DO is get the 'marriage deduction'. but they CAN still file jointly.

perhaps the government is TAXING homosexual couples because they don't like them. they don't like subjects consuming alcohol, so they tax it. they don't like subjects driving too much so they tax gasoline. they don't like subjects smoking, so they tax cigarettes. and they don't like two male subjects getting the same 'discount' that married 'both sex' couples get.

perhaps it's their version of a SIN TAX. perhaps we need some more time till the idea of two men or two women getting 'married' becomes acceptable. or perhaps we need to get rid of the prohibition against it in the bible. yeah... that might work.

Re: 2009 House Bill 4131 (Allow two unmarried persons to adopt a child )

SaneMichigander — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 13:02:52 GMT

crazycajun:

i'm not the one EVADING anything.

YOU said i was wrong, you have been EVADING PROVING THAT now for several posts.

You always evade documenting your claims.

Above in this thread you made four assertions, phrased in usual crazycajun question style:

so why do adoption agencies routinely turn down requests for homosexual couples requesting BOYS OVERWHELMINGLY?

is it just a quirk in the system that thousands more requests for adopting boys are made by homosexual couples than girls?

i don't believe that the adoption agencies of all fifty states report it if it weren't true. this information is one of the biggest stumbling blocks to 'full homosexual rights' there are.

Nobody has said you were wrong. That statement by you is a straight out lie.

What a couple of posters have done, though, is politely request that you document your assertions. You evaded. You then were challenged to document your assertions. Again, you prefer evasion to cooperation.

Why is that?

Re: 2009 House Bill 4131 (Allow two unmarried persons to adopt a child )

crazycajun — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 21:32:38 GMT

i'm not the one EVADING anything.

YOU said i was wrong, you have been EVADING PROVING THAT now for several posts.

you haven't done it because you CANNOT do it.

if what i said wasn't true, you wouldn't need a law to accomplish what you wish.

but you DO need a law, and the iron fist of government to ram this down the people's throat.

an abhorrent idea that no one will vote for, accomplished by government fiat through this bill.

how do you define that as change for the better?

and while you are at it. please explain how this bill will make michigan any better off than we are now?

the truth is, you can't.

all you can do is whine about how wrong i am, and wring your hands because YOU CAN'T PROVE IT.