Social and Civil Liberty Issues

Re: 2009 House Bill 5158 (Require “crisis pregnancy” centers to give abortion information )

nn22 — Sun, 27 Nov 2011 23:45:00 GMT

Pregnancy centers do give medically accurate information about abortion. Most centers openly oppose abortion though so they don't provide referrals for abortion. Bill 5158 initially had a referral requirement in it.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5158 (Require “crisis pregnancy” centers to give abortion information )

gypsy — Sun, 27 Nov 2011 20:12:14 GMT

Abortion is a legal medical procedure, and as such, information concerning it should be made available to pregnant women.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5158 (Require “crisis pregnancy” centers to give abortion information )

margiejohnsonkhj@AOL.com — Thu, 07 Jul 2011 17:54:28 GMT

(Please visit the site to view this media)

Pregnancy crisis centers are often referred to as Pregnancy Help clinics and they receive NO governmental funding as Planned Parenthood does and as a tax payer I STRONGLY resent that. We have professional staff, ie. obstetricians, RN's, Family counselors on staff and the only financial support they get is from donations and fund raisers. I have a daughter who was unmarried, pregnant. She went to a Planned Parenthood office for an abortion as she was waiting in the waiting room her conscience told her "This isn't right!" My baby is a person and today she is 11 years old, a beautiful child, good student and has brought much happiness to our family. Why do Americans have to leave the country to adopt a baby? QUIT killing them. Parenting classes, clothing for both moms and babies , child deveopment is offered at the centers. DO NOT pass House Bill 5158.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5158 (Require “crisis pregnancy” centers to give abortion information )

gypsy — Fri, 15 Apr 2011 02:50:45 GMT

Contrary to what some Republican senators say, abortion is only 3%of what Planned Parenthood does. Planned Parenthood receives government funding for the health services it provides women.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5158 (Require “crisis pregnancy” centers to give abortion information )

nn22 — Fri, 15 Apr 2011 02:07:44 GMT

Planned Parenthood makes their money on abortions, not pregnancy services. And, they get over 300 million a year from our government. Pregnancy centers are receive no government funding. If the govt is going to direct what pregnancy centers can say then they should also direct what Planned Parenthood says.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5158 (Require “crisis pregnancy” centers to give abortion information )

nn22 — Fri, 15 Apr 2011 02:04:20 GMT

Shouldn't the same be true for abortion clinics that call themselves Women's Health Centers? Abortion clinics make money on abortion. If disclosure is the issue, then it should apply to both sides. And, pregnancy centers are usually run by religious people but not specific churches. They offer free services and most post their mission statement right in the lobby.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5158 (Require “crisis pregnancy” centers to give abortion information )

gypsy — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:01:49 GMT

Publis is correct, many of the "crisis pregnancy" centers are run by churches, but do not advertise themselves as such. They exist solely to discourage women from choosing abortion. Nothing wrong with that, if they would be honest about their intent. Since they are not, this bill is needed to inform women in a "crisis pregnancy" who they are seeking counseling from. If a center advertises themselves as a "crisis pregnancy center", or any name they use suggesting they are a medical/counseling center, they should be by law mandated to certain standards. It is the government's place to force private organisations that serve the public to meet certain standards, for the sake of the public. If they are a religious organisation or have one goal, such as preventing abortions, they should make that known to women in their advertising and title.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5158 (Require “crisis pregnancy” centers to give abortion information )

jbennin — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 12:46:10 GMT

First thing...lets all be thankful we were not aborted at any point in time!!!

My argument is based on my beliefts that we, as a society, need to protect life at all stages. I used to be in the group that thought it was ok to abort as long as you do it within the first few weeks. My wife is currently 20 weeks pregnant and when she went to her first doctor visit, they were able to pick up a heartbeat at 6 weeks.

Life begins far sooner than I ever realized!

Re: 2009 House Bill 5158 (Require “crisis pregnancy” centers to give abortion information )

publis — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 02:14:25 GMT

hatmaker510:

Thanks Rep. Meadows for recognizing the need for this legislation. If an agency doesn't want to offer all options, they should call themselves something else and stop the false advertising.

How is an organization that calls themselves a "crisis pregnancy" center advertising falsely when they offer to help a girl through her "crisis" pregnancy? I would apply that same logic to "planned parenthood," an organization that offers abortion. (I realize that they also offer pregnancy services, but you understand my point?)

Re: 2009 House Bill 5158 (Require “crisis pregnancy” centers to give abortion information )

publis — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 02:10:28 GMT

gypsy:
If an organization feels abortion is "unethical", they should not be in the "crisis pregnancy" counseling business. They should be in the church business.

Guess what? Many of them are in both the church business and the "crisis pregnancy" business. Look, nobody likes abortion--am I right? The problem is what to do with the poor children born into situations that lead to abuse, neglect, and eventually, crime. Those who would deny abortion are the same ones who refuse to support many important social services that would support the life of the child who was "saved." I understand that this isn't right.

But to force a private organization to offer abortion information just isn't the government's place. You can argue about abortion all day long and never come to a consensus, but this isn't about abortion, exactly. It's about a private organization's civil liberty.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5158 (Require “crisis pregnancy” centers to give abortion information )

FreeSpeaker — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:03:25 GMT

gypsy:

Abortion is legal, and a regonised medical procedure. A non-profit organization that provides "crisis pregnancy" counseling has to meet certain qualifications imposed by the state, just as all medical services do. Ignoring the option of abortion for a woman in an unwanted pregnancy is just plan wrong. She should be presented with all the legal options available to her in order to make an informed choice.

If an organization feels abortion is "unethical", they should not be in the "crisis pregnancy" counseling business. They should be in the church business. As long as abortion is legal, it is an option in a "crisis pregnancy".

Gypsy has it right.

Abortion is not murder. This is especially so when you look at the actual statistics, which show that the overwhelming majority of abortions (89%) in the United States occur at 12 weeks or less from time of the woman's last menstruation. Not even the most radical view of "fetal viability" -- which would have be the basis for a murder accusation -- suggests that a fetus can live and develop outside the womb at that point in its development. We need to start realistically framing this debate on the basis of norms of when abortions are performed rather than on the basis of exceptions and extremes (late term abortion), which is a relatively rare occurrence.

Abortion as an act of choice is a decision that has a very real ethical dimension. Is it ethical to produce a baby one cannot realsitically (or otherwise) expect to nurture and support in a way that will allow the baby to flourish as a real human person? I don't have the universal answer to this, and neither does anyone else. This calls for getting in contact with one's own personal beliefs and values, and sorting out a very difficult problem, often in a highly charged emotional situation and state. The decision in the end, as it should be, is the mother's to make, because she will bear the primary burden of what ensues, and make no mistake about that.

The only ethical counseling in "crisis" pregnancies (or any other, for that matter) lays out all options in an objectively factual fashion, and neutrally supports the woman in reaching her own decision about what is to be done. Teaching religion is not a neutral act, any more than "pushing" abortion as a first choice solution is. Advising a woman that she certainly may seek religious counseling in reaching her decision is a neutral act, just as is objectively advising her of all other options.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5158 (Require “crisis pregnancy” centers to give abortion information )

changeagent — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 16:39:02 GMT

Well, I guess it only stands to reason then that Planned Parenthood clinics should be forced to teach religion too.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5158 (Require “crisis pregnancy” centers to give abortion information )

gypsy — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:31:45 GMT

Abortion is legal, and a regonised medical procedure. A non-profit organization that provides "crisis pregnancy" counseling has to meet certain qualifications imposed by the state, just as all medical services do. Ignoring the option of abortion for a woman in an unwanted pregnancy is just plan wrong. She should be presented with all the legal options available to her in order to make an informed choice.

If an organization feels abortion is "unethical", they should not be in the "crisis pregnancy" counseling business. They should be in the church business. As long as abortion is legal, it is an option in a "crisis pregnancy".

Re: 2009 House Bill 5158 (Require “crisis pregnancy” centers to give abortion information )

jbennin — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:45:00 GMT

When our government/state begins forcing organizations to do things they deem unethical, we are getting into a territory I don't think we want to go. Crisis centers can deliver many differing types of support, but I don't feel they should be required to provide an outlet for murder...otherwise known as abortion.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5158 (Require “crisis pregnancy” centers to give abortion information )

hatmaker510 — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 21:46:36 GMT

Thanks Rep. Meadows for recognizing the need for this legislation. If an agency doesn't want to offer all options, they should call themselves something else and stop the false advertising.