Social and Civil Liberty Issues

Re: 2009 House Bill 4565 (Revise keg beer sale procedures )

changeagent — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:49:35 GMT

Another case of the Republicans and Democrats compromising and putting more restrictions on our lives.

Re: 2009 House Bill 4565 (Revise keg beer sale procedures )

gypsy — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:14:20 GMT

Thank you freespeaker for the help. I suspect you are right about the motivation behind this proposed legislation.

I concur with those posting here that laws to forbid under age drinking do not work, much like laws to forbid drug use, and the so-called war on drugs. Our efforts would be much better spent educating kids about drinking, and drugs, and treating abuse and addiction in kids and adults, than making these "sins" forbidden fruit.

I therefore register my opposition to this bill.

Re: 2009 House Bill 4565 (Revise keg beer sale procedures )

amasaman — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:48:02 GMT

Why don't they increase the fine for contributing to a minor by $500.00 and get rid of this "loophole" to entrap unsuspecting law abiding citizens who aren't contributing to minors? It seems that this strange "beer keg registration" scheme will do nothing but enrage the first legitimate person that gets busted for it.

What about repeat offenders? What will the fine be if you get caught a second time without a tag on a keg? Besides, I'd keep the keg for the cost of the deposit, instead of pay $500 and get a misdemeanor.

And what about all those kegs that people already own. Will the cops go door to door looking for unregistered kegs, in order to issue tickets for kegs "purchased" prior to enactment of this law?

I remember getting raided at an "underage drinking party," way out in the woods. The cops showed up but there was no beer. (Actually they just showed up too early, beer WAS enroute to the party.) All they busted was about 30 people, teenagers, and early 20 somethings, standing around a campfire out in a field, drinking Mountain Dew and Coca-Cola, with music blasting out of somebodies truck. It was pretty funny having six cops all come running out of the woods with flashlights drawn, yelling at us to get down on the ground and empty our hands. They expected us to take off running. They tried to get our names and addresses but only a few relinquished that info. When they started writing down license plate numbers, we got a little more agitated. The landowner's son was there and threatened them with trespassing. The cops left with no arrests, no tickets issued, and no beer to confiscate (ie: drink for themselves).

I can just see the cops raiding every backyard BBQ party looking for "untagged" kegs. Now what happens if I bought the keg in Wisconsin, did I illegally transport it across state lines?

Re: 2009 House Bill 4565 (Revise keg beer sale procedures )

changeagent — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:57:29 GMT

I agree with freespeaker on this one.

Re: 2009 House Bill 4565 (Revise keg beer sale procedures )

FreeSpeaker — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:30:38 GMT

I would guess the real impetus behind this bill is revealed in Section (2)(C), which says:

(C) THAT THE INDIVIDUAL SIGNING THE RECEIPT DOES SO WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT HE OR SHE IS SUBJECT TO LIABILITY FOR SERVING THE BEER TO ANY MINOR.

This is just another tactic to keep booze away from kids. None of the laws like this work effectively at stopping “underage drinking." They merely criminalize more and more people and activities associated with that activity.

The truth is, Michigan’s ill-considered laws written to stop “underage drinking" probably do more to encourage abusive drinking among young people than to stop or significantly curb it. Prohibition, as pushed by extremists like MADD, does not work.

By the way, I put "underage drinking" in quotes for a purpose. I do not regard 18-20 year olds, who are voting age citizens, as "underage" for any adult responsibility. What we need is laws that provide for and encourage responsible drinking by all adults, including younger adults from age 18 and up.

Re: 2009 House Bill 4565 (Revise keg beer sale procedures )

gypsy — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:36:56 GMT

Would the administration, or anyone else, please provide some background knowledge as to why this bill is needed. As I read the bill, it will require the retailer to tag the keg and obtain id prove from the buyer, and require the tag still be attached on the kegs return. Why?

Re: 2009 House Bill 4565 (Revise keg beer sale procedures )

amasaman — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:18:50 GMT

Just another reason to make criminals out of common people. Pretty soon we'll all be criminals for getting out of bed on the wrong side. $500 fine? What for? Hopefully this just goes away, but just in case it doesn't, I'll be writing my Rep.

2009 House Bill 4565 (Revise keg beer sale procedures )

admin — Mon, 01 Jan 2001 05:00:00 GMT

Introduced in the House on March 11, 2009

Click here to view bill details.