Social and Civil Liberty Issues

Re: 2009 House Bill 4348 (Repeal CPL “gun-free zone” provision )

confed — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:14:51 GMT

LOL

Re: 2009 House Bill 4348 (Repeal CPL “gun-free zone” provision )

uber-liberal — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 13:39:53 GMT

SaneMichigander:

crazycajun:

i'm not trying to bury this discussion.

If that is true, you will do three things, starting immediately:

1 - Refrain from bringing irrelevant crap, like someone from another thread who claims to be a socialist, into the discussion.

why should he? you do it all the time.

2 - Refrain from mounting personal attacks against people who support this legislation.

again, why should he? you do it all the time.

3 - Confine your remarks to the merits (or lack of merit, if that is your position) of HB 4348, which seeks to repeal the gun-free zones provision in the Michigan CCW law.

once again, why should he? you never confine your remarks to the merits. usually you are making snyde remarks about cajun. or mentioning something sexual about him. we all are beginning to see you as that weirdo who wants into cajun's pants. now, if you have nothing good to say, or nothing relevent to the subject being discussed, then perhaps you need to keep your sexual procivities to yourself. we don't want to hear your sexual fantasies about you and cajun.

i can agree with cajun on this bill, it needs to pass, but further, it needs to be a first step to TRUE FREEDOM by eliminating the need for pistol permits and registration altogether. they are needless, they accomplish nothing, and do not add to the safety of the citizens of michigan. he gave you several examples of where gun control has failed as a concept and as a legal precedent.

I will restate my support for HB 4348, and my reason for supporting it. It is my opinion the gun-free zone provision is an unnecessary and cumbersome provision in the CCW law that should be removed. Removal of the provision will simplify the law and will simplify life for CCW permit holders.

i imagine you think that having to get a permit to defend yourself is what the framers had in mind when they wrote the second amendment. i used to think that myself. then i met cajun and we fought over it for weeks. every time i'd come up with what i thought was the 'knock-out' blow, he would counter with his usual logic and humor. it made me re-think my position. now i see that he is completely right, and i have him to thank for being able to save my own life with my gun. gun control of any type, other than safety instruction and practice is abhorrent to the freedom loving.

Re: 2009 House Bill 4348 (Repeal CPL “gun-free zone” provision )

SaneMichigander — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 13:19:18 GMT

crazycajun:

i'm not trying to bury this discussion.

If that is true, you will do three things, starting immediately:

1 - Refrain from bringing irrelevant crap, like someone from another thread who claims to be a socialist, into the discussion.

2 - Refrain from mounting personal attacks against people who support this legislation.

3 - Confine your remarks to the merits (or lack of merit, if that is your position) of HB 4348, which seeks to repeal the gun-free zones provision in the Michigan CCW law.

I will restate my support for HB 4348, and my reason for supporting it. It is my opinion the gun-free zone provision is an unnecessary and cumbersome provision in the CCW law that should be removed. Removal of the provision will simplify the law and will simplify life for CCW permit holders.

Re: 2009 House Bill 4348 (Repeal CPL “gun-free zone” provision )

crazycajun — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 02:18:54 GMT

by the way... trueblue is perfectly capable of defending himself... but he's not... i wonder why that is?

could it be that he DOESN'T CARE?

now, why do YOU?

oh yeah... i forgot... you care about ALL MEN.

Re: 2009 House Bill 4348 (Repeal CPL “gun-free zone” provision )

crazycajun — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 02:16:54 GMT

the same reason, captain twitterpated, that you do.

i'm not trying to bury this discussion. you are.

i've spoken my views, but you have bantered about inanities. you haven't been ON TOPIC yet.

what exactly are YOUR views about gun free zones?

there is a reason they are called CRIMINAL EMPOWERMENT ZONES.

you also haven't answered where gun control succeeded in saving any lives in any of the above listed school shootings. this bill is an attempt to remove a vestige of gun control.

why can't you answer questions?

because you don't know... either intentionally or otherwise.

so, that makes YOU irrelevant.

of course we've all known that for a while now, but we put up with you because you're funny.

Re: 2009 House Bill 4348 (Repeal CPL “gun-free zone” provision )

SaneMichigander — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 22:56:10 GMT

crazycajun:

so, please read the thread on this site marked WHAT IS DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM. look to see who started it.

i'm sure that you will find trueblue's name.

the only thing you have clearly visible is your stupidity.

Ahem, oh crazed person. This thread is about House Bill 43458, to repeal the gun-free zone provision in Michigan's CCW law.

Nobody in this thread, other than you, has mentioned "democratic socialism," or has posted using the name TrueBlue.

So why do you keep bringing up those off topic things?

Why are you trying to bury discussion of HB 4348 under a pile of stupid irrelevancies?

Why do you attack posters who have directly stated their support of this legislation?

Re: 2009 House Bill 4348 (Repeal CPL “gun-free zone” provision )

crazycajun — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 22:48:41 GMT

so, please read the thread on this site marked WHAT IS DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM. look to see who started it.

i'm sure that you will find trueblue's name.

the only thing you have clearly visible is your stupidity.

Re: 2009 House Bill 4348 (Repeal CPL “gun-free zone” provision )

SaneMichigander — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 22:46:25 GMT

crazycajun:

au contrair, mon frair.

trueblue proudly boasts of his socialist leanings. he even speaks of his inability to vote for the two candidates in the presidential election that were CLOSEST TO SOCIALISM in favor of the republican.

As usual, your typing and the truth cannot occupy the same space.

Nobody using the screen name TrueBlue has posted to this thread. No person posting to this thread has declared himself or herself to be a socialist. That is a stupid label that liars like yourself run around trying to stick on other people.

The fact is that every poster in this thread, except possibly you, has stated or clearly implied his/her support of HB 4348, to repeal the gun-free zone provision in Michigan's CCW law.

You -- crazycajun -- have chosen to attack support of this legislation. The facts are clearly visible.

Re: 2009 House Bill 4348 (Repeal CPL “gun-free zone” provision )

crazycajun — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 22:21:56 GMT

au contrair, mon frair.

trueblue proudly boasts of his socialist leanings. he even speaks of his inability to vote for the two candidates in the presidential election that were CLOSEST TO SOCIALISM in favor of the republican.

you missed the thread about DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM that he started, didn't you?

of course you did...

now. how many lives has gun control saved in the above listed school shootings?

hmmm? what was that????

i didn't think you said anything.

Re: 2009 House Bill 4348 (Repeal CPL “gun-free zone” provision )

SaneMichigander — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 22:11:47 GMT

crazycajun:

the reason for the 'attack' is that the person who stated his support is a socialist

Nobody in this thread has declared him- or herself a socialist. So you are lying again, crazy. You have a real noticeable habit, there.

The fact is, every person who has posted so far in this thread, except maybe you, has stated or otherwise clearly indicated support for HB 4348, which would repeal the "gun free zones" provision in Michigan's CCW law.

So why do you attack people who actually do support this legislation?

Re: 2009 House Bill 4348 (Repeal CPL “gun-free zone” provision )

crazycajun — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 22:04:44 GMT

the reason for the 'attack' is that the person who stated his support is a socialist, intent on bringing socialism to michigan. socialism has the credo of disarmament of the proletariat, that is why i questioned his support.

now, you believe that gun control works, and you fight to continue gun control in michigan.

prove to me that gun control saved one life in any of those scenarios listed, or in any other criminal shootings.

gun control is a failed experiment. proven so many times. why do you persist on shoving it down the people's throat with the iron fist of government?

Re: 2009 House Bill 4348 (Repeal CPL “gun-free zone” provision )

SaneMichigander — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 22:01:45 GMT

And so you have proved what? That fatal shootings have occurred in schools. Good for you. Now tell us something we don't know.

crazycajun:

yet you cling to gun control as the saving grace.

Oh?

That's just another of your lies.

The question is, why do you continue to attack people who have clearly stated their support this bill?

Re: 2009 House Bill 4348 (Repeal CPL “gun-free zone” provision )

crazycajun — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 21:56:31 GMT

A list of some fatal shootings at U.S. schools in recent years

The Associated Press

MONDAY, OCTOBER 2, 2006
-->Published: October 2, 2006

_Oct. 2, 2006: A gunman killed at least four people, including himself, and wounded more at a one-room Amish schoolhouse in Pennsylvania's Lancaster County, state police said.

_Sept. 29, 2006: 15-year-old Eric Hainstock brought two guns to Weston Schools in rural Cazenovia, Wisconsin and fatally shot his principal, 49-year-old John Klang, after Klang had given him a a disciplinary warning for having tobacco on school grounds.

_Sept. 27, 2006: 53-year-old gunman Duane Morrison took six girls hostage at Platte Canyon High School in Bailey, Colorado. Morrison used the girls as human shields for hours before he shot and fatally wounded 16-year-old Emily Keyes and then killed himself.

_Aug. 24, 2006: Christopher Williams, 27, went to Essex Elementary School in Essex, Vermont looking for his ex-girlfriend, Andrea Lambesis. He shot and killed teacher Mary Alicia Shanks, 56, and wounded another teacher at the school. Williams also killed Lambesis' mother.

_ Nov. 8, 2005: 15-year-old Ken Bartley Jr., a high school freshman, is arrested in the fatal shooting of Assistant Principal Ken Bruce and wounding of two other school administrators at Campbell County High School in eastern Tennessee. Authorities did not immediately disclose a motive.

_ March 21, 2005: Sixteen-year-old Jeff Weise shot and killed five schoolmates, a teacher and an unarmed guard at Red Lake High School on the Red Lake Indian Reservation in Minnesota before taking his own life. Weise had earlier killed his grandfather and his grandfather's companion.

_ Nov. 22, 2004: Sixteen-year-old Jalil Speaks was fatally shot and three other students were wounded outside Strawberry Mansion High in Philadelphia. Sixteen-year-old Desmond Keels is set to stand trial on murder charges later this month. The shooting apparently was over a $50 (€40) debt in a rap contest.

_April 24, 2003: 14-year-old James Sheets shot and killed 51-year-old Eugene Segro, principal of Red Lion Area Junior High School in south-central Pennsylvania, before killing himself. The shooting took place inside the school's crowded cafeteria.

_ Sept. 24, 2003: Fifteen-year-old John Jason McLaughlin fatally shot two fellow students - Aaron Rollins, 17, and Seth Bartell, 14 - at Rocori High School in Cold Spring, Minnesota. McLaughlin was sentenced in August to life in prison. He will not be eligible for parole for nearly 40 years.

_March 5, 2001: Charles "Andy" Williams, 15, killed two fellow students and wounded 13 others at Santana High School in Santee, California, in San Diego County. Williams was sentenced to 50 years to life in prison.

_May 26, 2000: 13-year-old Nathaniel Brazill killed his English teacher, Barry Grunow, on last day of classes in Lake Worth, Florida, after the teacher refused to let him talk with two girls in his classroom. He was convicted of second-degree murder and is serving a 28-year sentence.

_Feb. 29, 2000: Six-year-old boy shot and killed 6-year-old classmate at Buell Elementary School in Mount Morris Township, Michigan. Because of his age, the boy was not charged.

_Nov. 19, 1999: 13-year-old girl shot in the head in school at Deming, New Mexico, and died the next day. A 12-year-old boy later pleaded guilty and was sentenced to at least two years in juvenile prison.

_ Apr. 20, 1999: Students Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 23 before killing themselves at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado.

_ May 21, 1998: Two teenagers were killed and more than 20 people hurt when a teenage boy opened fire at a high school in Springfield, Oregon, after killing his parents. Kip Kinkel, 17, was sentenced to nearly 112 years in prison.

_May 19, 1998: Three days before his graduation, Jacob Davis, an 18-year-old honor student, opened fire at a high school in Fayetteville, Tennessee, killing a classmate who was dating his ex-girlfriend. Davis was later sentenced to life in prison.

_April 24, 1998: Andrew Wurst, 15, opened fire at an eighth-grade dance in Edinboro, Pennsylvania, killing a science teacher. The boy pleaded guilty to third-degree murder and other charges and is serving 30 to 60 years in prison.

_ March 24, 1998: Two boys, 11 and 13, fired on their Jonesboro, Arkansas, middle school from nearby woods, killing four girls and a teacher and wounding 10 others. Both boys were later convicted of murder and can be held until age 21.

_Dec. 1, 1997: Three students were killed and five wounded at Heath High School in West Paducah, Kentucky. Michael Carneal, 14-year-old, later pleaded guilty but mentally ill to murder and is serving life in prison.

_Oct. 1, 1997: Sixteen-year-old Luke Woodham of Pearl, Mississippi, fatally shot two students to death and wounded seven others after stabbing his mother to death. He was sentenced the following year to three life sentences plus 140 years.

_Feb. 19, 1997: A 16-year-old boy took a shotgun and a bag of shells to school in Bethel, Alaska, and killed the principal and a student and injured two others. Evan Ramsey is serving a 210-year sentence.

_Oct. 2, 2006: A gunman killed at least four people, including himself, and wounded more at a one-room Amish schoolhouse in Pennsylvania's Lancaster County, state police said.

_Feb. 29, 2000: Six-year-old boy shot and killed 6-year-old classmate at Buell Elementary School in Mount Morris Township, Michigan. Because of his age, the boy was not charged.

_ Apr. 20, 1999: Students Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 23 before killing themselves at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado.

all these lives taken. not a single one saved.

gun control failed to save a single life in ANY of these school shootings, nor has it saved any lives in any OTHER school shootings, or any other criminal shooting anywhere.

yet you cling to gun control as the saving grace.

why?

Re: 2009 House Bill 4348 (Repeal CPL “gun-free zone” provision )

SaneMichigander — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 21:51:46 GMT

crazycajun:

you obviously DIDN'T BOTHER TO READ AGAIN. or are being intentionally ignorant.

The question for you, crazycajun, is this: Why are you pursuing an argument with someone who has declared support for this bill?

Don't bother answering. Nobody wants to read it.

Have a nice day playing with your own little twisted up self in your own little twisted up LaLa Land.

Re: 2009 House Bill 4348 (Repeal CPL “gun-free zone” provision )

crazycajun — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 21:37:51 GMT

you obviously DIDN'T BOTHER TO READ AGAIN. or are being intentionally ignorant.

pick a school shooting, there have been several.

name one where gun control saved a life.

any one.

the truth is YOU CAN'T because it HASN'T SAVED A SINGLE LIFE YET.