Social and Civil Liberty Issues

Re: 2008 Senate Bill 1352 (Authorize beer festival licenses )

crazycajun — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:41:49 GMT

and even a stopped clock is more right than you are.

now, how about that answer.

oh, never mind, it will be drivel anyway. you just keep on doing what you do, you are incapable of intelligent answers, or remaining on topic.

Re: 2008 Senate Bill 1352 (Authorize beer festival licenses )

SaneMichigander — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:22:54 GMT

crazycajun:

so, your REAL name is sanemichigander???

i didn't think so...

so, she shouldn't listen to YOUR advice either.

'Tis a day of miracles! You finally got something right, cajun. Even a blind pig finds an ear of corn now and then they say, and today it was your turn.

Nobody should rely on information posted by people using pseudonyms on internet web sites.

It has been noted in particular that your posts contain an exceptional amount of mis- and disinformation and miscellaneous BS. That makes you particularly suspect.

Have a nice day in your twisted up little LaLa Land, crazy.

Re: 2008 Senate Bill 1352 (Authorize beer festival licenses )

crazycajun — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:11:46 GMT

so, your REAL name is sanemichigander???

i didn't think so...

so, she shouldn't listen to YOUR advice either.

she should do exactly what she did, and seek expert help. by the way, sane...

it's been a VERY LONG TIME since you posted ON TOPIC. how about giving THAT a chance?

naw... you COULDN'T POSSIBLY POST ON TOPIC. YOU KNOW NOTHING.

Re: 2008 Senate Bill 1352 (Authorize beer festival licenses )

SaneMichigander — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:54:08 GMT

crazycajun:

now sane. our friend here seems to know the legality of her alcohol production, as i said she did. you, on the other hand remain blissfully ignorant, and just looking for a fight.

by the way, erika. what kind of still did you get?

I think I prefer the US Department of Treasury's word as to legal still operations, rather than rely on a crackpot who posts under a pseudonym on on the internet and commonly has trouble telling the truth about anything. That pretty well describes our own crazycajun.

So, Erika, if you still are tuned in here, I'd suggest taking your questions to the real source on this. Here's a link for you:

http://www.ttb.gov/spirits/index.shtml

Re: 2008 Senate Bill 1352 (Authorize beer festival licenses )

crazycajun — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 02:22:21 GMT

now, sane.. what is your opinion of issuing beer festival licenses?

you MUST have one. you keep posting (off topic) on this thread.

come on, sane... it's a simple, direct question.. it CAN'T BE THAT HARD.

ANSWER THE QUESTION SANE... COME ON SANE... ANY TIME NOW SANE....

Re: 2008 Senate Bill 1352 (Authorize beer festival licenses )

crazycajun — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 02:18:42 GMT

ehardt:

In the United States, you will need a Federal Alcohol Fuel Producer Permit. These can be obtained from the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (a division of the Treasury Department). In the US, it is not illegal to own this equipment without a license... but it is illegal to use it without one. This may not be the case in other countries.

As far as United States licensing goes, there are three categories of permits for the fuel producer; small, medium, and large. The small producer permit is the simplest to obtain, and will allow you to make up to 10,000 gallons per calendar year. This permit does not cost any money to obtain. Simply fill out the form, mail it to the address specified in the included instructions, and your permit will arrive in about 30 days. The application (form 5110-74) for the permit can be obtained here.

Aside from the Federal permit, your state and local governments may also require licenses. This varies from state-to-state.

you DO NOT need a fuel producer permit if you are not producing fuel. but you are limited to less than 100 gallons a year. a high price to pay to buy a still to get 100 gallons of vodka. you do not need a state license or permit if you do not sell your vodka, or produce fuel.

even if you ARE producing fuel, you may keep 100 gallons UN-DE-NATURED for your personal use. read your fuel producer paperwork.

now, if you bought the still to make FUEL, not vodka, you have done nothing illegal, but you HAVE misrepresented yourself, and gotten our friend sane all riled up. but that's okay, he's like that all the time. by the way, he seems to like you. i'd be worried.

now sane. our friend here seems to know the legality of her alcohol production, as i said she did. you, on the other hand remain blissfully ignorant, and just looking for a fight.

by the way, erika. what kind of still did you get?

Re: 2008 Senate Bill 1352 (Authorize beer festival licenses )

crazycajun — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 02:11:15 GMT

so, i say again...

what part of PERFECTLY LEGAL did you not understand?

nuff said.

pffft.

Re: 2008 Senate Bill 1352 (Authorize beer festival licenses )

SaneMichigander — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:23:46 GMT

ehardt:

I have not done anything illegal, was just asking a simple question which clearly no one was able to answer. I will instead go back to the michigan.gov site which explains the options and rules of what I was querying about.

I think looking for an authentic source of information on this matter is a good idea on your part. You will not find it here.

Crazy will not answer your question because, to put it bluntly, he was not telling the truth when he said, "it is also PERFECTLY LEGAL for ANY CITIZEN in ANY POLITICAL JURISDICTION to distill up to 400 gallons of 'distilled spirits' per person in his household."

In fact, from what I have been able to ascertain it is legal to own a still, but it is not perfectly legal to use the apparatus to distill alcohol unless you have a federal license to do so. But please, do not take my word for it. Check it out for yourself.

There is an interesting article by Lessley Anderson discussing the matter at this link:

http://www.chow.com/stories/10475

A key paragraph in the article says:

”Making wine and beer at home became legal after Prohibition ended (wine immediately, beer in 1978), but making spirits without a commercial license remains a federal crime. Getting a commercial license is an expensive and rigorous process.”

Source: “White Collar Moonshine,” by Lessley Anderson

Here is what the U.S. Department of Treasury says:

You cannot produce spirits for beverage purposes without paying taxes and without prior approval of paperwork to operate a distilled spirits plant. [See 26 U.S.C. 5601 & 5602 for some of the criminal penalties.] There are numerous requirements that must be met that make it impractical to produce spirits for personal or beverage use. Some of these requirements are paying excise tax, filing an extensive application, filing a bond, providing adequate equipment to measure spirits, providing suitable tanks and pipelines, providing a separate building (other than a dwelling) and maintaining detailed records, and filing reports. All of these requirements are listed in 27 CFR Part 19.

Spirits may be produced for non-beverage purposes for fuel use only without payment of tax, but you also must file an application, receive TTB's approval, and follow requirements, such as construction, use, records and reports.

Source: http://www.ttb.gov/faqs/genalcohol.shtml#g1

I understand there has been some effort to change the federal law in this respect, but it has not happened yet, to my knowledge.

As I said above, do your own checking on this. I sure would not rely on any advice you get here as to legality of owning and using a still to guide your decision making.

Re: 2008 Senate Bill 1352 (Authorize beer festival licenses )

ehardt — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:01:30 GMT

In the United States, you will need a Federal Alcohol Fuel Producer Permit. These can be obtained from the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (a division of the Treasury Department). In the US, it is not illegal to own this equipment without a license... but it is illegal to use it without one. This may not be the case in other countries.

As far as United States licensing goes, there are three categories of permits for the fuel producer; small, medium, and large. The small producer permit is the simplest to obtain, and will allow you to make up to 10,000 gallons per calendar year. This permit does not cost any money to obtain. Simply fill out the form, mail it to the address specified in the included instructions, and your permit will arrive in about 30 days. The application (form 5110-74) for the permit can be obtained here.

Aside from the Federal permit, your state and local governments may also require licenses. This varies from state-to-state.

Re: 2008 Senate Bill 1352 (Authorize beer festival licenses )

ehardt — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:26:40 GMT

I have not done anything illegal, was just asking a simple question which clearly no one was able to answer. I will instead go back to the michigan.gov site which explains the options and rules of what I was querying about.

Re: 2008 Senate Bill 1352 (Authorize beer festival licenses )

SaneMichigander — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:19:55 GMT

No, Cajun. This is not your time to ask a bunch of rhetorical questions and try to change the subject. This is time for you to be a standup guy for a change, overcome your terror of answering simple, straightforward questions, and deliver.

What’s the problem here? Just answer the question “Erika” directed at you, without the BS. No more weaseling.

Bump:

Crazy, on Sunday, January 11, 2009, at 5:39 pm, you posted the following statement on this forum:

by the way, it is PERFECTLY LEGAL for ANY CITIZEN in ANY POLITICAL JURISDICTION to brew up to 100 gallons of beer per person in his household.

it is also PERFECTLY LEGAL for ANY CITIZEN in ANY POLITICAL JURISDICTION to distill up to 400 gallons of 'distilled spirits' per person in his household.

state and local governments cannot tax this, they cannot control this, they cannot limit this, and they cannot prosecute any citizen for doing this.

On Saturday, February 21, 2009, at 12:57 pm, a poster using the name, “Erika” wrote:

So does this mean I can distill my own alcohol in my backyard or garage legally in the state of Michigan? I just bought a still and wanted to make my own vodka.

Thanks, Erika

I certainly do not recommend that “Erika” or anyone else rely on your advice in legal matters (or anything else, actually). In fact, I vigorously caution against doing so.

Nonetheless, it would be courteous of you to answer the question from “Erika.”

Just answer the question. It can’t be that difficult for you, can it?

Re: 2008 Senate Bill 1352 (Authorize beer festival licenses )

crazycajun — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:15:54 GMT

and by the way, sane... what is your interest in "Erika"?

she an ALTER-EGO of yours?

you seem to have an almost UNNATURAL interest in her and her prediliction for distilling. why?

you plan on trying to lobby congress to make alcohol illegal again?

you plan on turning her in to the local authorities?

or are you just posting under another name again?

by the way, you haven't posted ON TOPIC in quite a while, even after being asked your opinion.

it seems that being OFF TOPIC is quite a habit for you. you NEVER seem to be ON TOPIC.

so, what do you have against beer festival licenses?

Re: 2008 Senate Bill 1352 (Authorize beer festival licenses )

crazycajun — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:09:03 GMT

dear erika.

why did you buy a still?

more importantly, why did you buy a still without knowing the legality of your purchase?

were you planning on distilling alcohol whether or not it was legal?

a little WHITE LIGHTENING?

by the way, i'd suggest you use the kitchen, it's much cleaner than the garage or the barn.

i think you'll also find that commercial vodka is cheaper, unless you like grey goose. but then again, you'll be a couple of years coming up with anything CLOSE to grey goose.

like i said to your friend sanemichigander, i much prefer to brew beer.

Re: 2008 Senate Bill 1352 (Authorize beer festival licenses )

crazycajun — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:02:47 GMT

certainly no more terrified than you.

there are DOZENS of questions YOU haven't answered.

i'll be happy to answer yours AFTER you answer all of mine.

till then, any idiot that can read can find the answer IN YOUR POST. pity you can't.

Re: 2008 Senate Bill 1352 (Authorize beer festival licenses )

SaneMichigander — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 20:33:17 GMT

Crazy, you make it evident that you are terrified by straightforward questions. Why is that?

Nonetheless, we ask, again ...

Bump:

Crazy, on Sunday, January 11, 2009, at 5:39 pm, you posted the following statement on this forum:

by the way, it is PERFECTLY LEGAL for ANY CITIZEN in ANY POLITICAL JURISDICTION to brew up to 100 gallons of beer per person in his household.

it is also PERFECTLY LEGAL for ANY CITIZEN in ANY POLITICAL JURISDICTION to distill up to 400 gallons of 'distilled spirits' per person in his household.

state and local governments cannot tax this, they cannot control this, they cannot limit this, and they cannot prosecute any citizen for doing this.

On Saturday, February 21, 2009, at 12:57 pm, a poster using the name, “Erika” wrote:

So does this mean I can distill my own alcohol in my backyard or garage legally in the state of Michigan? I just bought a still and wanted to make my own vodka.

Thanks, Erika

I certainly do not recommend that “Erika” or anyone else rely on your advice in legal matters (or anything else, actually). In fact, I vigorously caution against doing so.

Nonetheless, it would be courteous of you to answer the question from “Erika.”

Just answer the question. It can’t be that difficult for you, can it?