Education

Re: 2009 House Bill 5021 (Mandate school “dating violence” courses and policies )

gypsy — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 14:26:47 GMT

I have never taught. But I have raised children, and I have lived a long live. What I have learned is not all children are lucky enough to have responsible parents. These children eventually grow into adults without the proper training or skills to function in society. Our prisons are full of them. Schools must be, to a certain degree, a substitute for unresponsible or incapable parents. I sympathize with your workload as a teacher, but I support adequate teacher pay, and bills like this. It is much more productive to spend the money on the children in school than on the criminals in prison.

Your right in saying people like me want to add more and more to the curriculum. The more children learn in school, the better prepared they will be for life. Good parents will still be good, and bad parents will still be bad, but maybe children of bad parents will turn out good. It's worth the effort. Thanks for yours.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5021 (Mandate school “dating violence” courses and policies )

MichL1 — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 03:50:32 GMT

Obviously you have never taught if you think it can't be a matter of time. I work with elementary aged kids K-5. My curriculum binder (in case you don't know, a curriculum binder outlines all topics that must be covered in a subject for the year) in Language Arts alone contains approximately 600 pages. Each page is double sided with 3 columns of text on each side. Just think of how many different topics and benchmarks that covers for one subject. Add to that math, science and social studies. Yet, you and people like you want to add more and more to the curriculum. Enough already! School is not and should never be turned into a substitute for parents. Teaching children about dating violence is the proper role of the parents not the schools.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5021 (Mandate school “dating violence” courses and policies )

gypsy — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 02:27:03 GMT

It can't be a matter of time, children get 3 months out of school every year.

It is the resposibility of us all to teach the children. We all have to live with the adults they become.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5021 (Mandate school “dating violence” courses and policies )

MichL1 — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 00:44:42 GMT

gypsy:

How about you, and me, paying taxes to support our schools, so they can teach children what they need to know to become adults and contribute in a constructive way to society.

I really don't think this is asking too much of our schools. I don't think we ask enough of them.

The issue is not one of finances, it is one of time and responsibility. Our curriculum is already a mile wide and an inch deep. Because so much has been pushed off on the schools, more and more topics have been added to the curriculum. There is no time to teach each concept to mastery or to teach each concept to the depth that it should be covered. In terms of responsibility, it is not the job of the teachers to raise your child. That is your job.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5021 (Mandate school “dating violence” courses and policies )

gypsy — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 22:18:55 GMT

How about you, and me, paying taxes to support our schools, so they can teach children what they need to know to become adults and contribute in a constructive way to society.

I really don't think this is asking too much of our schools. I don't think we ask enough of them.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5021 (Mandate school “dating violence” courses and policies )

MichL1 — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:37:18 GMT

And, like it or not, the schools can not be responsible for teaching everything. Some things are the territory of the parents. If you notice that they aren't doing the job, then how about you, as a concerned community member, step up? How about you hold classes on dating violence if it is so important to you? It is too easy to push parental responsibilities off on the schools.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5021 (Mandate school “dating violence” courses and policies )

gypsy — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 02:45:13 GMT

As long as it's someone else's kid learning the hard way; getting raped, beaten or abused, or doing the raping, beating or abusing.

No man, (or woman, or child), is an island. Like it or not, we share this Earth with each other.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5021 (Mandate school “dating violence” courses and policies )

MichL1 — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 02:08:56 GMT

gypsy:

And if they don't?

This is the exact question that leads legislators to pile more and more on the schools. Enough already! If the parents don't step up then the kids will have to learn some of life's lessons the hard way. Unfortunately, that is life. It is not the school's responsibility to parent the children. Sometimes you have to learn in the school of hard knocks.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5021 (Mandate school “dating violence” courses and policies )

gypsy — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:45:14 GMT

And if they don't?

Re: 2009 House Bill 5021 (Mandate school “dating violence” courses and policies )

MichL1 — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 02:26:32 GMT

When schools are mandated to teach things like this that are properly the role of the parents, it takes time away from teaching things that are the proper role of the schools (reading, writing, math, science, social studies). Stop mandating the schools to do more and more. It is time for the parents to step up.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5021 (Mandate school “dating violence” courses and policies )

gypsy — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:04:28 GMT

Ironic that you should list self defense as the first basic skill schools should teach children. That's exactly what this bill would do. Teach children to recognize and defend themselves from dating violence, and give the school a policy to address it. We'll put you in the yes column for this bill.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5021 (Mandate school “dating violence” courses and policies )

Mike Hignite — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 06:30:40 GMT

It is interesting to observe how often people are concerned about how other people are not raising their kids properly.

When did the country decay into the position that children should be raised by government experts as opposed to the children's parents?

Do you call your kid's teachers to ask when they think your kids should go to bed? When you should let them date? At what age you should have them engage in pre-marital sex, so that they will fit in and not be outcasts?

Stick to the basics. Schools need to focus on what kids will really need to know to survive in the real world:

How to physically defend oneself from attack. Self-defense classes, and the responsible use of firearms.
How to read.
How to add, multiply, subtract and divide.

In other years, it may have been useful to understand something of employment law and contracts, like a rental agreement or mortgage. Today, it is be more useful to understand how to apply for food stamps & unemployment, and how to manipulate the politcal process to live off the labor of others.

Oh, and maybe learn to speak chinese.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5021 (Mandate school “dating violence” courses and policies )

gypsy — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 00:30:40 GMT

FreeSpeaker:
I certainly draw the line of school responsibility at providing instruction in how to properly engage in a dating relationship. That is something parents should attend to. If they are going to produce children, they should take responsibility for rearing them to become decent human beings in their social relationships.

I agree. They should attend to and take responsibility. The sad fact is, many don't. Should we throw these unfortunate children into the world without basic knowledge because their parents were either negligent or unable to supply them with the information they need? This bill isn't about providing instruction on how to engage in a dating relationship, it's about how to recognize inappropriate behaviour, whether on the giving or receiving end, and what to do about it if encountered. Those children who have parents who have explained this to them will not be harmed by hearing it again at school. Those children who have negligent or incapable parents will be informed. To cower from this issue is to cower from our responsibilities to not only our children, but all children.

FreeSpeaker:
I think it ridiculous to spend energy and angst defending non-academic stuff such as "dating violence" instruction in health classes, if it becomes controversial.

I think it ridiculous to spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours on sports, a non-academic stuff.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5021 (Mandate school “dating violence” courses and policies )

FreeSpeaker — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 21:35:01 GMT

gypsy:

If we'd shirked in our responsibilities to educate our children because we fear political controversy, we would still be teaching them the world was flat, and the Sun revolved around the Earth. Should our schools help parents in teaching and raising our children? My answer is an emphatic "yes".

I'll go all the way resisting attempts to force our schools to take us back to a "flat earth" version of science. Likewise on any legitimate academic issue. Our schools should teach children academic skills and knowledge in reading, writing, math, science, and social studies (geography, history, government and economics), which can get us into enough conflict. I think it ridiculous to spend energy and angst defending non-academic stuff such as "dating violence" instruction in health classes, if it becomes controversial.

That is not shirking responsibility. It is choosing what fights are worth fighting.

To the extent that we are looking after their academic needs, I say, "yes," our schools should help parents in teaching and raising their children. That is what schools are for.

I certainly draw the line of school responsibility at providing instruction in how to properly engage in a dating relationship. That is something parents should attend to. If they are going to produce children, they should take responsibility for rearing them to become decent human beings in their social relationships.

Re: 2009 House Bill 5021 (Mandate school “dating violence” courses and policies )

MichL1 — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:16:33 GMT

gypsy:

I really don't think we are asking too much of our teachers to include dating violence in their sex education program. Seems like a pretty good fit to me. Too much is being made of the time and cost this would entail.

As for recognizing limitations on what we can expect from our schools, I see the problem differently. We don't expect enough for what we pay, and are not getting enough. Statistics bear me out on this.

If we'd shirked in our responsibilities to educate our children because we fear political controversy, we would still be teaching them the world was flat, and the Sun revolved around the Earth. Should our schools help parents in teaching and raising our children? My answer is an emphatic "yes".

Our curriculum is already a mile wide and an inch deep because legislators and the general public "don't think we are asking too much of our teachers to include..." more and more and more and more. At some point, the curriculum cup overflows because the legislature is always adding and never taking away. There is only so much that can be covered in any given course. Teaching children about dating violence is a parental responsibility and not a teacher responsibility.