Education

Re: 2009 Senate Bill 255 (Enact MEA pension boost proposal )

smallyfish — Mon, 09 May 2011 08:44:14 GMT

People that like to go to the doctor, have many thing that they need to ask. Maybe they not sick. They just need advice bout a good medicine that we can have, such as a multivitamin for us. Pellet Machine

Re: 2009 Senate Bill 255 (Enact MEA pension boost proposal )

bugman — Sat, 28 Mar 2009 20:12:20 GMT

common courtesy. but thanks.

Re: 2009 Senate Bill 255 (Enact MEA pension boost proposal )

gypsy — Sat, 28 Mar 2009 02:14:52 GMT

Nice save.

Re: 2009 Senate Bill 255 (Enact MEA pension boost proposal )

bugman — Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:14:30 GMT

it didn't take an economist, a mathematician or a fancy calculator to tell that this plan would not save money. it took something you don't give anybody any credit for having. simple common sense. i'm glad you had an open mind about it, though.

Re: 2009 Senate Bill 255 (Enact MEA pension boost proposal )

valueplus — Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:27:16 GMT

Hey bugman,

Do you want me to copy and paste the 5 or 10 times in these posts where I said, "If the incentive costs too much money, then it shouldn't pass! But, if it is found to save money, then it should pass"?

I just wanted everyone here to wait for the "guys with the fancy calculators" to do their thing and make an informed decision.

Would you listen to some guy in a bar or in a barber shop or in a forum says something is too expensive or would you listen to the guys who REALLY know what their talking about? When my grandmother said to put butter on my burns---------I always had the feeling I should listen to a doctor instead.

Re: 2009 Senate Bill 255 (Enact MEA pension boost proposal )

bugman — Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:16:58 GMT

dear valueplus.

the numbers are in, and this proposal is out.

it seems that the guys with the fancy calculators finally figured out that it would cost the state four billion dollars to save 444 million.

not a tenable position. it was a nice try though.

Re: 2009 Senate Bill 255 (Enact MEA pension boost proposal )

valueplus — Fri, 27 Mar 2009 01:27:44 GMT

vipster wrote:

"What kind of "product" has been delivered by the MEA over the last 30+ years? Producing under-achieving students that trail the rest of the industrial world? More days off from school...more half days....more "reading days"......more "pajama days"....higher salaries.......higher pensions.....more paid time off........Citizens are tired of it."

I remember being at a family gathering in the early sixties with my uncles and my dad saying the exact same thing you said here. But, they were talking about the inferior education of the 50's and 60's. So, that means the quality of education in the 50's and 60's was bad, too. The oldest uncle (by far) said his dad used to sit around and say the samething about schools in the 30's and 40's. Now, everyone says the same thing about the last thirty years. Were schools EVER good in the United States? If so, when?

Each older generation has said the same thing about the previous 30 years. And, every generation says, "Yeah. But, it's really worse now!"

If lpmmb22 "needs to be out of the classroom" as you say, then the stimulus would have done just that. New, younger educators with new, fresh ideas would have replaced the oldsters. Now, sadly, the oldsters, will still be teaching your children. By th way yous guys, if yous cn reed this, thnk a teecher. I know, I know. No teacher taught you how to read. It was your mom.

Re: 2009 Senate Bill 255 (Enact MEA pension boost proposal )

Vipster — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:44:06 GMT

lpmmb22

"without this bill I won't retire and my friends all said they will just hang on for 5 more years"

Is that right?........."just hang on for 5 more years" You epitomize the reason that most taxpayers no longer support increased expenditures for teachers packages & have a negative impression of the MEA in general.

The proposal was advanced by the MEA. You ask: "If it was impossible to begin with why bring it up?" Well, ask the MEA. If the majority of taxpayers are against it & contact their legislators, it will fail. It's that simple. That's how the system works......I'm sure you already know that. Sorry, but you sound a bit whiney.

You sound like your job just is such a bother. What about teaching our young people & preparing them for the future? What about the dedication? What about the love of teaching & preparing students for a productive future? World-class students? You & your "friends" sound exactly like the kind of teachers we need to get out of the classroom. For the sake of our children's educational quality, I would personally like to pay you to leave the system. However, sweetening your sweet deal (in addition to your benefits for life) through the legislative process, WILL cost more down the road for the rest of us. After we retire, most of us won't be sitting on a fat Gov. pension with C.O.L. increases. The future tax increases needed to support this bloated system will be more of a burden to us than you. Asking us to pay more now, only to pay even more later, is ludicrous.

What kind of "product" has been delivered by the MEA over the last 30+ years? Producing under-achieving students that trail the rest of the industrial world? More days off from school...more half days....more "reading days"......more "pajama days"....higher salaries.......higher pensions.....more paid time off........Citizens are tired of it.

Re: 2009 Senate Bill 255 (Enact MEA pension boost proposal )

R1Lawrence — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 02:08:25 GMT

Ipmmb22:

It’s not a teacher thing, the fact is that the MEA is trying to get something for their members but they either refuse, miss, don’t care to contemplate the long term costs. To complicate matters most legislators couldn’t balance their own checkbooks much less contemplate the complexities of actuarial assumptions, investment return criteria, and declining demographic trends. Financial expertise is sorely lacking in Lansing, and it’s easy to sell a bill of goods to legislators that can’t ask the right questions.

As for jobs, Granholm can’t create real jobs -- she can only encourage the legislature to make conditions favorable for job creation. Those conditions are a foreign concept in this state.

Re: 2009 Senate Bill 255 (Enact MEA pension boost proposal )

lpmmb22 — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 01:52:12 GMT

I always find it amusing that anytime teachers may get something there is always a public outcry. No one said anything when state employees got an incentive. Young teachers need jobs without this bill I won't retire and my friends all said they will just hang on for 5 more years. The sad thing is to dangle a carrot for people and then just pull it back. If it was impossible to begin with why bring it up? As usual politicians are all talk and no action an you wonder why Americans become so upset with the whole system. Young kids are spending $70,000 to get an education for what there are no jobs in Michigan!! Hopefully, Granholm will offer some incentive so our young people won't leave.

Re: 2009 Senate Bill 255 (Enact MEA pension boost proposal )

bugman — Sun, 22 Mar 2009 10:52:24 GMT

all those things are already paid for, and then some.

Re: 2009 Senate Bill 255 (Enact MEA pension boost proposal )

valueplus — Sun, 22 Mar 2009 03:09:36 GMT

SOLUTIONS wrote: ... (really--the roads and buildings look worn out in most places), and hope for a better future?

Mike Hignite seems willing to pay 15,000 people to pull his car to work. Maybe he'll pay for the roads, buildings, schools, prisons, hospitals, and government buildings, too.

$30 to have his car pulled to work and another $30 to pay for the road it's pulled on. :-)

Re: 2009 Senate Bill 255 (Enact MEA pension boost proposal )

Mike Hignite — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:01:35 GMT

valueplus:

I'm amazed that people would be against that. Absolutely amazed. If you are against it, please write a letter to President Obama and Governor Granholm and tell them that you don't want any Federal Stimulus money for Michigan, your county, or your city. No roads, no cars, no bridges, no hospitals, no schools, no whatever. After all, all it's gonna do, according to you is "increase taxes to pay" for the stimulus.

I have done so. I don't want any federal stimulus money, because it will not work. Without federal stimulus money we won't have roads, or schools, etc? What about existing taxes? What are they for? If they didn't work, why should the stimulus?

Yes, all the stimulus will do is increase taxes. You've fallen for the "forgotten man" fallacy. Bob thinks Tom needs schools and ta kes the money from Steve to build them. Tom is happy. Bob is happy. All you have to do is ignore Steve and the stimulus works fine.

valueplus:

And, no it may not "create" jobs, but it does GIVE jobs and thus lower unemployment to 15,000 people or so who do not now have jobs----------it gives jobs for those people who are not now presently working.

What are you trying to say? It doesn't create jobs, but it Gives jobs. What does that even mean? I can end unemployment tomorrow. I will hire 15,000 people to pull my car to work. I'm happy to give them the $30 a week I would have spent on gas to split as they see fit. Not only does this eliminate unemployment, it's a green solution to the energy problem. How can anyone be against that? I'm amazed that anyone could be against that. Absolutely amazed.

Where do you think these magic jobs are? Locked in a cabinet in Granholm's Lansing office?

Re: 2009 Senate Bill 255 (Enact MEA pension boost proposal )

Solutions — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:00:55 GMT

Yes, I am lucky. I work ina field where leaders have to treat the people who are working with students well. In MI there is also a grievance process for teachers when there is an ineffective boss (sometimes misused).

Generally speaking, unions serve educators well. However, the current economic structure, policy backing (such as SB 255), and lack of creative thought have led to fewer and fewer union members. Unions in Denmark are forward thinking--don't seem to have ageist issues.

All people (regardless of age) deserve a job if they want one--particularly if they are hardworking.

This bill had a tendancy to paint those older workers as greedy and ready for the pasture. And as most MEA policies, it did little for people like me who won't have these "great", publicly subsidized retirement options--the healthcare portion will be gone. The union has become too rigid in thinking and structure. It became so good at bargaining, it forgot about the future.

How does MI change current policy to create more jobs, better infrastructure (really--the roads and buildings look worn out in most places), and hope for a better future?

It will take 100% creativity, a great deal of energy and thought, and a lot of work.

Re: 2009 Senate Bill 255 (Enact MEA pension boost proposal )

valueplus — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 00:41:32 GMT

Do you realize how lucky you are to like your job? I like my job better, much better now than I did 10 years ago. Why? I have a great boss----NOW. Ten years ago I had a boss nicknamed "light switch", we never knew what kind of mood he was going to be in. One day on, and the next day off. I was ready to retire then-----couldn't afford it and wasn't eligible. Now that I'm eligible, I like my job better than ever. If I had the PREVIOUS boss NOW -----------I'd be LONG GONE.