Michigan Votes Forum

 I was told once that people are afraid of the big UNIONS like the MEA (Michigan Education Association) I was even told by an employee of the MEA, a Uni-serve director that people are afraid of people like them meaning; the Uniserve persons . I didn't believe it when I heard it , but now I do. I have been exposed to thier corrupt ways. The MEA is one of the most powerful Unions there is, doing wrong by those who pay into their system and getting away with it. I never knew how much power the Principles Association had either, and/or all the things they control. This system is like an evil giant that continues to grow and gain more power each step it takes. The NEA Today (Their propaganda magizine) is a powerful hipnotic tool used to control the minds and voices of all who read it. The teachers are like "sheeple" who follow the lead sheppard who is really a wolf in sheep's clothing. None of them have a mind of their own. They are told when, where, and how to think, sit, stand, talk, and yes, even told how to vote. This magizine even tells them how to manipulate things to get their way.Robots, each and every one of them. Controlled to keep their jobs and controlled to agree with everything the Administration or Union requests of them, even if it is immoral, unethical, and /or against their own protection, their "contract." It saddens me that the people who have the power to stop this do nothing...including yes, the Macinac Center.

Unions, the people who gave us the weekend, social security, workman's compensation, employer paid health benefits, pensions, a minimum wage, job safety, unemployment insurance, and civil rights. Pretty scary, ugh?

Dear Gypsy, nice tongue I appreciate and hire talent like that at all my non-union shops. I strongly disagree with all of your well disputed claims of prosper and wealth provided to you by the UAW. I am prepared to stand for the working man I hire and the small bussiness man that has provided job opportunitys for americans. Your right to work for less claim get a life, this is a right to do bussiness and without the bussiness no-body has a job. Bussiness men and women are risk takers, unlike a trained union professional, to cower and rely upon the benifits listed above, these in michigan are way over the top and are the driving force of making michigan bussiness uncompetitive $92 and hour to build a car that needs a gas pump - cmon!!!!!!!

Question: on the union created weekend could we get three days, who do we need to speak to about that , and the social security could use that know to open another bussiness (non-union) , and the rest is just takes away the growth of the bussiness.

Right to do bussiness its the american way !!!!!!!!!

 All Gypysy knows is what the union has told him.Look at some of his other posts,he is only here to spread union bull. If you listen to him the union even created water. If you disagree with him he will resort to name calling . Just look at some of his other posts where he has tried to talk down to people. You will find this guy to be wrong on every issue and very easily proven wrong.

I was a member of the MEA for years. Now  I'm a local President. Tell your friend he is full of it. There's nothing scary or corrupt about the union. He's been watching too many Jimmy Hoffa movies. All the Union does is fight to protect the rights of the workers. We bargain collectivly to ensure a fair wage. FAIR wage. That's means we look at the amount of money recieved or cut as it is today. Then we negotiate a contract accordingly. Nothing scarey or corrupt about that! You want scary and corrupt look at your politicians and CEO's. They will continue to live High Society life styles and they will watch you starve while they do it. Then when your family is starving they may put you to work to make enough food for the day(That is their goal. They are tired of out sourcing to other countries. They want slave labor right here in the USA). They do not care about you or your family.  Wake up! Know who the monster really is!

Thanks for the compliment in regards to my tongue, but actually it is a quite normal tongue. If you meant my writing, maybe you need to hire a writer to help you.

My claims may be well disputed by you, but they are well established facts of history. In regards to your right to do business, I support you enthusiastically. Conversely, workers have as much right to organize as businesses do. Business is as dependent on a work force as workers are on business. It's a symbiotic relationship. You don't start businesses to employ workers, you do it to make money. The same reason workers work. Starting or running a business doesn't make you more important than the workers you employ, it's just a different role. Certainly business owners take a risk, but they do so for the rewards, not out of some moral mission. Oh, by the way, auto workers don't make $92/hr. Please keep your arguments somewhere at least within the near realm of reality.

Yes, the right to do business is the American way, and the right of workers to organize and collectively bargain for better wages and safe working conditions is also the American way. If that frightens you, maybe you need to explore starting your next venture in one of the Asian nations. They have very similar opinions about labor as you do.

Just an aside, if your going to be in business very long, it would behoove you to learn to spell it. Don't feel bad, I make many spelling errors too, but spell check helps me out a lot.

 

Thank you for the referral oldvet. Yes, by all means, look at some of my other post. Maybe you'll enjoy them.

Yea, we know exactly where you stand. You want the right to do business you just don't want your workers to have the right to do business with you. You want to smile all the way to bank because you think you deserve it. After all you started the business;  you put up investments and you are in charge. You just don't want your worker to have the same twinkle in his/her eyes. That would mean a smaller smile on your face. They didn't think of the business or put-up any risk. All they did was work thier butt's off to help you get that smile on your face. You don't care what they drive, where they sleep or even how healthy they are. If they get too sick to work you'll just fire them and hire someone who is not sick. The cheaper you get the labor the bigger the smile on your face. It's just makes perfect sense from a business point of view. Your not in it for them. Your in it for you.

I wish people like you would just say it like it is and stop demonizing the unions because of your greed. The Union would negotiate a fair wage in your shop. Then you and all that helped you goes to the bank with the same size smile on thier face.  But... they don't deserve that do they?

Dear OldVet2,

 Thank you for responding, I have read all of the Gypsy's posts. Please stay tuned Im holding out to find out who in the UAW we need to speak to for the three day weekend.  I have a challenge for the gypsy available, one that the gypsy cannot win. Right to do bussiness.

 

 

 

 

gypsy:

Unions, the people who gave us the weekend, social security, workman's compensation, employer paid health benefits, pensions, a minimum wage, job safety, unemployment insurance, and civil rights. Pretty scary, ugh?

 

 Social Security,unemployment insurance,civil rights thats quite a reach even for you Gypys. Can you show any facts to support those claims ?  I am waiting.

gypsy my answers to your statements in bold

Workers have as much right to organize as businesses do. - We are very organized, you are confusing organized labor in this statement.

You don't start businesses to employ workers, you do it to make money. - If you remain competitive and your products are award winning you should have a profitable business that will allow expansion, for new products, and automation.

 Starting or running a business doesn't make you more important than the workers you employ, it's just a different role. Gypsy - I am stepping outside the argument here on this comment, this is a suttle suggestion, of faith and you are embarking on religion, so please refrain from comments that might suggest otherwise, or questions someones religion.

Starting or running a business doesn't make you more important than the workers you employ, it's just a different role - Im not sure the message including a fight who was more important, but by that comment I see where your coming from. Since we are role playing now how about signing on the dotted line for some of the necessary comittments that are binding, and required to start a business. Last nights review of the papers ive read didn't have any UAW requests for employment next to my advertisments for jobs.

Certainly business owners take a risk, but they do so for the rewards, not out of some moral mission  - Now were getting somewhere you have said it Risk, now lets work on risk management. This comes well before the rewards in owning a business. 

Moral mission - I will remind you once again about this, thank you for respecting this request.

 

Ive sent you a definition of symbiotic relationship from one of them on-line dictionary's we can read it togehter because its really interesting and just so you know the business is the wood, that the termites are eating, and the Protists are the good union employees.

I think you have to research the relationship thing a little better because I will give you an A for trying to confuse the crap out of everyone, with complicated word associations.  however it is completey unesscessary, everyone understands that U think the Business is the termites, and cannot survive without the protists, perhaps someone needs to understand who bought the land that the wood grew on ? A business man with a desire to build something.

.

 

It's a symbiotic relationship.

Symbiotic relationships in nature can be beneficial or harmful to one of the two organisms involved in the relationship. A symbiotic relationship occurs when two distinct organisms live in close proximity to one another. An example of a symbiotic relationship is the termite and the protists that live inside the termite. Without the protists aiding in the digestion of wood termites would not be able to garner nutrition from wood.

Just an aside, if your going to be in business very long, it would behoove you to learn to spell it. Don't feel bad, I make many spelling errors too, but spell check helps me out a lot -  Now theres a jab i can take however,  spell check - I guess penmanship isnt taught in them big fancy schools these days.

maybe you need to explore starting your next venture in one of the Asian nations- Been there a long time ago, have you ?

If one was to look into that a from a quick look their technology, quality are on par and if you briefly examine the euro zone of a 36 hour work week and how happy they are right now and how balanced there enconomy is it makes pefect sense to sign up for that.

 

 

PS Old vet thanks for your help - Semper Fi !

 

Dear UnionPlus - You obviously have all the answers, and have it all figured. Personally you probably watch too much news that can be hateful and full of bad programing.  We have 2 additional specific business started from long time faitful employees, ideas generated from a positive straightforward approach in a faciltiy, that served them well they did not have the experience or the money to move forward with thier plans, I did you probably own one, or two. - thanks these employees are now bussiness partners assuming risk for their co-workers a steep price to pay in the mistunderstandings of the american way, however these economic times are excellent time for bussiness to launch, low building costs and the availability of labor. what stands in the way are many obstacles and pre-concieved notions, and illusions of granduer.  Ive discussed with everyone the fairness of the way its supposed to work we can all have the same twinkle, without the unions, however money isnt the answer for most and this comes with experience some folks have dificulty managing it. And a union shop is supposed to fix this not my problem that peolpe live outside your means, with or without a twinkle in their eye. Your union dues are used on a regular basis to drive bussiness away from this state, through political contributions. As far not caring about thier health did you know most dont sign up for the available health care , until they are in the hospital and they need it and in todays real world it is not an overnite or immeadiate request that takes additional expense to expedite. Remember whos money was used to save GM and Chrysler.

 

 

 

 

 Keep up the great work all you union members.  All of you need to stand together in Michigan like Ohio did yesterday.  The people voted down the union busting Governor.

Thats right carry on and greece it will be. because your fail safe is a GUARANTEED bailout.

In bold! I am impressed.

When you say "we are organized", are you including yourself as a worker? If so, welcome to the fold. If you mean you as a business owner organize your employees, that's to do a job. They also have a right to organize themselves, for better wages and working conditions, just in case you, in your largess, aren't paying them well and providing safe working conditions. So, no confusion there, right?

Your statement about being competitive and producing award winning products makes sense, but not when used as an answer to my statement. You still are in business to make money, and workers still work to make a living.

Where you find any reference or connection in my statement about the different roles of business and labor to religion is beyond me. My point; business men are in business to make money, workers work to make money. Same goal, different roles.

In regards to you pointing out that no UAW members applied for one of your jobs, maybe UAW members are happy with the job they have, and don't need to work for you. Hope that doesn't hurt your feelings.

You are correct that risk comes before reward, if it comes at all. The bigger the risk, the bigger the reward. So, that's why business owners get into business. Like I said, to make money. I really do think we agree on that, if I am translating you correctly.

In regards to my statement that business and unions have a symbiotic relationship, a symbiotic relationship is a relationship between two entities which is mutually beneficial for the participants of the relationship. Thus there is a positive-sum gain from cooperation. This is a term commonly used in biology to explain the relationship between two entities that need each other to survive and prosper. The bumblebee and the flower would be an example. I like that example better than yours. Just an opinion.

If you are saying the European union is a good example for us to follow, I would agree when it comes to labor. Germany has a very unionized labor force, and is running a trade surplus, and propping up other nations in the Euro zone. The Euro zone is having a banking crisis, like we had in 2009, not a labor problem. Americans quietly bailed out our banks, the European taxpayers are not rolling over as easily.

Hope that clears things up a bit, and thanks for reading all my post.

It was a great election day for unions in Ohio, and common sense in Mississippi. I join you in celebrating Frannie.

Oldvet, all of those programs I mentioned were either initiated through unions, or supported by unions. You should do your own research. Maybe give Glen Beck a call. I'm sure he would have some revisionist history you would like.

Dear Gypsy's

An apology in order youre right on the labor $ per hour i was wrong at $92 the rate spelled out in detail on the UAW website is $70 plus the $31 per hour legacy costs, (that must be included in any business model), should equal $101 US funds, a little more Canadian funds.

Organization it is too bad you see that there is a fold between business owners and workers that mentality exists in union facilities, where most of the problem is in the Union management and not the majority of the workforce, those responsible should be held accountable for their inappropiate actions.

In regards to the fact that no UAW members applied for one of my jobs, you missed it the union didnt have any job openings, just our facilities. the unions havent created any jobs. 

youre all about regulation nation it appears you had to even make up your own definition for a lame term to describe a relationship, must be what the union managment taught you. I sure glad that they never got to write the birds and bees definition. 

the american dream is possible outside of union control, regulation , etc. and yes one positive thing that comes from a well run business is money why is this a problem for you?

Euro option - Not a good example you ought to know better than that, it is a good learning example of what not to let happen, over regulation has led to their issues.

You also brought up a great topic one that is both an education and still a looming crisis. The banking crisis please pay attention that crisis isnt limited to 2009, more propaganda for evil machine. True failure when a business even a bank or central bank become uncompetitve, is at best unavoidable. It will happen eventually and I cannot find the words to say let us never in this country have to learn that lesson again. It will be awful bad for everyone. Blaming CEO's and bussiness owners wrong tool dead end road, look a little into the regulations imposed upon those business owners and CEOs and it isnt always a CEO whom is the owner. keep that in mind.

Banks made a good bussiness decision to make those loans they even recieved tax incentives to do so, there in it to make money remember. now that turned into a pretty meaty controversy and proved to be a challenging business decision for them remeber there in it to make money, Of the bunch I know they didnt have the experience to weigh the risk , remember risk management?

Natural things that happen in business are the selling of profitable business's even banks who wants to buy a bunch of failing banks,

figured it out yet keep pondering. I dont owe the banks a single red cent, all my employees owe me is an honest days work.

The American people need to find their common ground, preferably without that of union management intervention. If a bussiness dosent pay you enough get another job, if you want more than that work 2 jobs. If a bank is charging to much interest leave them quickly, find someone to do bussiness with, never live outside your means by any means. Every single day is your own choice, this banking crisis of 2009 will be around until Americans find common ground and support each other.

So you understand this crisis is a little bit of everyones problem the fix isnt more regulations, or more reform or running to Asia or Canada or more unions. The fix is right here in the usa always has been.

I saved the best for last - Religon you clearly stated im no more important than my fellow man, while this is a true statement if we where in a religious discussion. but we are not in a religious discussion nor will we enter one. I will however give you something and i certainly hope it helps, I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all. not a bad standard .....or place to start. 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Gypsy, why are you beating up Oldvet on the Glenn Beck routine ? did glenn make to much money for your likings. please see the definition below for the term you may have wanted to use, quit confusing people with these made up terms Revisionist ? 

historical revisionism is the reinterpretation of orthodox views on evidence, motivations, and decision-making processes surrounding a historical event. Though the word "revisionism" is sometimes used in a negative way, constant revision of history is part of the normal scholarly process of writing history.

 

Researchers we are now?

gypsy:

Oldvet, all of those programs I mentioned were either initiated through unions, or supported by unions. You should do your own research. Maybe give Glen Beck a call. I'm sure he would have some revisionist history you would like.

 Gypys , show me the facts that the union initiated any of those programs I mentioned. You cannot, because all you have to say here is Union talking points. no research .

 

right to do bussiness:

Researchers we are now?

 

 Right to do business( did I spell it right ), I like your posts and agree with you. Gypys has only been a union employee, he will tell you he was a union manager so he knows what it is like to run a business.I am old enough and wise enough to make sure I know the facts ( by doing my research ) before I voice and opion here. Gypys, only recites union drivel . Call him on the facts he either comes up with some union spin ,calls you names or folds up his tent.

It is refreshing to have a sensible ally here.

 

Oldvet, thanks for the refreshing post it is also a plus to have a someone whos got your back, yesterday i wanted to lay off because of the usmc birthday but i had some advice for gypsys crystal ball.

Well thats a good thing to see gypsys got some management experience i dont see it, good at typing ? but thats it.

Nice image post i will be looking for one probably need something with rank on it to please the gypsy that would be proper ?

You were being nice giving credit for knowing how to setup a tent......attaboy!!!!  - over and out  RTB

 

oldvet, i threw another log on the fire today,   over in the freedom to work category.

be well

 You Go OldVet2 - you've got his number!

Good for you being a member of the MEA. The Unoin does NOT fight to protect the rights of workers. I have plenty of documentation to support that, but I will agree with you on the fact that politicians at this point don't seem to care about me or my family. What is bargaining collectively? Is that where a member in good standing is excluded from bargaining or attending any meetings? Oh, that's what you mean by nothing corrupt! As far as watching me and my family starve...sitting at the same table with the High Society would be none other than Union members. 

Oldvet - you are right gypsy created water. - right to do business.

A glass of water is good for you.

Gypsy - I don't drink Union City Water.

Why isn't this President called on the carpet and fined? .................. http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/17056

SEIU wants more "power" than the Governor: http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/17292

Why Public Unions are bad for the country, bad for the state and bad for the any city governemtn and taxpayers: ..............http://therealrevo.com/blog/?p=79995

If you are not a Union member you will get the "shaft" by the Barack Obama administration and now we have e-mails that prove this:....... http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/07/emails-geithner-treasury-drove-cutoff-of-non-union-delphi-workers-pensions/

Unions in Michigan are now canvassing citizens for signatures to give Unions extraordinary powers in the state related to collective bargaining and forced Union dues. Be very careful on what you sign. 1. Michigan Conservative Alliance: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Michigan-Conservative-Alliance-MICA/135355703224881 2. Work Place Choice: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Workplacechoiceorg/164238930296532 3. National Right to Work: https://www.facebook.com/NationalRighttoWorkFoundation 4. Right to Work: https://www.facebook.com/NationalRightToWork 5. School Choice: https://www.facebook.com/schoolchoiceweek 6. Legalized Extortion: https://www.facebook.com/legalizedextortion 7. Socialism does not work: https://www.facebook.com/socialismdoesntwork Pete Hoekstra: https://www.facebook.com/petehoekstra Michigan's two liberal Senators that support everything that Barack Obama demands: Debbie Stabenow: a. https://www.facebook.com/ThanksalotDebbie b. https://www.facebook.com/DumpDebbieStabenow Carl Levin: a. https://www.facebook.com/CommitteeToRecallCarlLevin

Michigan citizens. We need to protect ourselves from the greed of Unions being forced upon us by their demands for legislation change to Michigan's Constitution. We can not let this happen. 1. http://protectingmichigantaxpayers.com/about-ubbi 2. https://www.facebook.com/ProtectingMichiganTaxpayers