Michigan Votes Forum

Introduced in the House on September 8, 2011

Click here to view bill details.

Really, do we need to escalate this war on unions? Should we ban using public school sources to deduct fica and federal income tax too?

 Enough already! This is just another attempt to punish teachers for joining a union. I noticed that this bill doesn't outlaw payroll deductions for United Way, scholarships, etc. Apparently only the "evil unions" are draining district resources. Stop beating up on teachers.

Now you are comparing union dues to Federal Taxes ?

 Really, this is what our legislators are doing in Lansing?  Whether you support unions, dislike educators, whatever....regardless of your stance, this is an absurd use of time.  If they don't have anything better than this to do, they need to go get jobs.  I just lost any remaining respect I have for 55 members of the House of Representatives.  Hopefully our Senators have the professionalism and maybe even a to do list, that will keep them from wasting their time on this.

What a great idea, this should be the case for State and Federal taxes too!!!  It is painless to have the cash withheld before you get to hold it, if you pay it yourself then some accountability for the end use may stem from the action.  If they are going to pay your union dures then why not your light bill cable bill???????   What would be really neat is have the teachers vote on this................

You can have your lightbill, or cable bill, or whatever deducted from you credit card or checking account. You can also have your check directly deposited into your account. Does it really cost localities any more to deduct union dues along with all the other deductions and transfers? This is merely another attack on the teachers unions. I would support letting them vote on this. I'm sure they would support letting their dues be deducted from their paychecks, as it has been for years.

I am in favor of this “Freedom to Teach Act.  This is a great way for teachers to break out of the mediocrity that we see in our education system. Many teachers are growing more upset that the National Education Association, the parent union of the MEA, is spending their dues on issues that have little to do with education. 

 

 This bill has absolutely NOTHING to do with improving instruction, curriculum, discipline or anything else about teaching. It has EVERYTHING to do with making it more and more inconvenient to be a union member. The state will not be happy until teachers are outlawed from having any sort of protection or voice. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the legislators would remember that education is a team approach and would enact some legislation putting some consequences on the other team members (parents, students)? How about some legislation putting consequences on parents who can't seem to manage to get their children to school on time or at all? A teacher at our school recently finished going through the files of her students. A full 80% of her class were attendance problems. Yet there is no consequence for the parents because the schools have been allowed no power in this area and the legislature is too concerned with punishing teachers for having the audacity to want to be represented by a union.

Here is a test, could be an exam in one of those continuing education programs!

1.  What limitations, if any, exist now on what can be arranged with a school district as an automatic payroll deduction?  

     Describe: ________________________________.

2.  The IRS apparently has such an arrangement, either by law or by presumption.  But what about other organizations?  Does each school district have complete authority to make a deal with the XYZ Ladies Knitting Club to deduct its dues for any teacher that joins that particular organization? _______ (Y or N).  

3.  Or does it have the authority to deduct church contributions for its teachers who think that would be more convenient for them?             _______(Y or N).

4.  Many teachers are concerned about poverty in Bolgravia.  Can they get a payroll deduction to support that?______(Y or N).

5.  Should there be limitations? _______(Y or N).  

6.  Why or why not? _________________...  (This is an essay question!  In answering it, consider not only the deduction, which is quite simple, but the distribution of it, periodically, forever, to the designated receiving organizations...). 

 

 When will the Senate take this on and get it passed?  This is great if passed!

Gypsy - you make a great statement in this post "deducted from you credit card or checking account." All union members should pay their own dues through their own means. and yes it does cost money to administer paying the union dues , first you have an employee wasting time on it, union creating havoc making sure its right wasting more time, and finally the computer and software expense, not to mention updates and the list goes on and on. So pay your own bills was our solution and it has worked in our only and last union facility 12 years ago. I put an end to this unecessary expense and confusion in the facility. quit fighting great things for our state. Right to do Business

Thanks for this great post. Love to read articles like this one.

---

visit to my site , collaboration software

 

I was just wondering how does this new bill contribute to the higher quality of education? Sure, it's a financial matter too but if you set some new norms to collect these money people may find inconveniences. Sure, teachers are some higher payed state employees but they are have the higher responsibilities. I have them to thank for my online masters nursing and for turning me into a productive citizen. This is the return of our teachers work: the productive citizens.

Senators Anderson, Young and Gleason, under their constitutional right of protest (Art. 4, Sec. 18), protested against the passage of House Bill No. 4929 and moved that the statements they made during the discussion of the bill be printed as their reasons for voting "no." The motion prevailed. Senator Anderson's statement is as follows: I rise in strong opposition to this legislation. House Bill No. 4929 represents yet another attack on the rights of working Michiganders. It is motivated by nothing more than partisan retribution for the embarrassment experienced when a member of the majority party was recalled in the other chamber. We've heard this bill will save money and administrative costs, yet even the proponents acknowledge those savings are minimal if they even exist at all. Some claim that this legislation will promote individual responsibility and hold unions accountable, yet, in reality, this legislation silences the voices of teachers and their union representatives. It makes it more difficult for them to voice their concerns about the damage this Legislature has done to our schools and our children. Inserting language to appropriate a small sum of money, thus making this legislation referendum proof is shameful. This practice, which we have seen frequently this session, is a disgrace to this institution. Michigan residents should be alarmed that their legislators pass bills that they know will be unpopular, yet leave Michiganders with few options to repeal or change the law in the future. Then, when Michiganders speak out and recall one of the loudest voices against teachers and public education, the majority party passes legislation that is clearly intended as partisan-based payback. This is a complete subversion of democracy in this state. I strongly urge my colleagues to oppose this legislation. It is a shame that the Legislature is considering a bill such as this. It is yet another in a long line of attacks on our educators over the past year, diminishing their value as professionals and eroding their dignity in this state. House Bill No. 4929 also represents continued assumptions on behalf of the Legislature that local governments cannot manage their own affairs. Locally-elected school boards and teacher unions in Michigan have frequently and successfully demonstrated the ability to work together to solve common problems. This legislation is an affront to that record of success, making the statement that the Legislature believes locally-elected school boards are not capable of carrying out their responsibilities. In this bill, we have further restrictions on workers' rights, continued degradation of our public educators, and greater limitations on local control, all components that seem to be requirements of any legislation enacted by our Governor and this majority party in this session. If all of this wasn't bad enough, the substitute language adopted in committee proves it and tops it off.

Senator Young's statement is as follows: I would like to start with a quote. It is a quote from Abraham Lincoln, and he said, "The best way to predict the future is to create it." With this legislation, in my opinion, we are creating a future where we are infringing upon the rights of working men and women. We are usurping their rights to collectively bargain, and we are going down a very treacherous path of eliminating collective bargaining as we know it. Where is the threshold? Where is the line drawn in the sand? Where will we take a stand in this state? There are certain rights that are given to working men and women who want to collectively bargain. I don't see it. Every other day it is another anti-union bill. We are going to take this away from them; we are going to take that away from them. This policy of death by a thousand cuts to labor unions is fundamentally wrong. What is so egregious about this is the fact that we are doing this to teachers. Let me give you an example of what teachers do in my district. In the city of Detroit, when children show up, most of the time books aren't there. It is the teachers who are running across the street making Xerox copies so the children can have books. Most of the time, in the classroom, they can't afford to have science projects. So it is the teacher who is taking money out of their own pocket to make sure that is necessary. A lot of kids cannot afford to have lunch, so it is the teacher who is taking money out of his or her pocket to make sure that child can eat. It is the teacher who is going to the parents' house saying, "I understand that you are struggling and that times are hard, so let me take some money out of my check and out of my hard-earned wage and pay that child's bills so that child can go to school and achieve a bright future." When you usurp; when you take; when you fundamentally snatch away from the people their rights, there are consequences for that. I am here to let everybody know and put you on notice that if you continue to do this to the people, there will be a ubiquitous uprising that will be heard as far down as the core of the earth and as high as the cosmos. They will say with one resounding voice that we will not take this type of usurpation of our rights anymore. We will not stand for this targeting out of our teachers. We deserve better, the community deserves better, and the children deserve better. This bill is a disgrace and it is wrong. We need to vote this down.

Senator Gleason's statement is as follows: I would just like to offer my opinion in regard to this effort as well. It does seem as if there is a consistent assault on working men and women in this state, particularly those who belong to collective bargaining units. My good friend from Detroit, Senator Young, began his remarks with a quote from Abraham Lincoln. Abraham Lincoln, during the more difficult times, stated that we should extend charity to all and malice to none. It appears over the past 13 months that we have extended malice towards all and charity towards none in regard to the collective bargaining process. This has been a longstanding issue in our country. When you look at the Constitution itself, it gives our citizens the right as individuals to assemble with others to join together for a common cause. Eighty years ago, the Wagner Act was passed saying that folks had the right to join unions, and they could join in the collective bargaining process. It seems nearly weekly that we have an assault on those who are trying to do just that. I think our best days were when the politicians stayed out of the collective bargaining process. When I look back only a half-century ago when collective bargaining contracts were utilized across this state, we had the highest perworker income in the nation, and second place wasn't very close behind us. We thought it was important to let people make a livable wage and have a benevolent health insurance and a retirement that was based on dignity through a pension plan. We need to take a look at this. Is our state really better off when we meddle in fair and equitable negotiations between two parties? We have many attorneys who serve in this chamber and others who served in their previous life upholding the law. I think that is the level we should be addressing these collective bargaining efforts with Those whom we hold in the highest respect--the police, the fire, and the teachers--this constant barrage on their ability to share their concerns and voice a common concern about how they are going to be compensated should not be diminished. But today we are seeing one more time this effort against them. I say we should oppose this legislation. That is fair. We let other people meddle in that check. The United Ways across this state and other interests get to apply their fingers into this compensation package, so let the unions have the same advantage as others.

 Eccellent bill !  Thanks!  Michigan appreciates this .

 Mr. Young's comments are emotional and so wrong. Mr. Young, I am the public. I am that person paying the school to teach our children. I am the person paying that Administration Officeworker to leave her position as a school employee and become the union employee. Mr. Young, Do you not think that union can afford to set up their own office system and program to be able to bill their members, like all members of any organization receive?  We public payers do not need to assist any union with their due's collection, EVER!

AMEN! and I would go farther to say that anyone being paid with taxpayers coins, have no business being in or forming a UNION! PERIOD......

 Admin003, No one ever said that worker's weren't allowed to organize. Don't even go there because that is not in this bill, at all. Mr. Young added that emotional statement as a pull to put an emphasis on how much he disagree's with this bill. This bill will let the union stand alone, finally, for a change. Unions are very strong and wealthy entities and the do need to be responsible for their own bookkeeping.

 AMEN!! , Mr. Hurd

TaterSalad:

 Eccellent bill !  Thanks!  Michigan appreciates this .

Another ignorant post,  Listen this bill had NO fiscal impact on the michigan tax payers!!!!!! NONE!!!!!  It will cost the tax payers to change the program to not take out the union dues!! Conservatism at it's finest!! LOL!!!  Plus all of the time wasted by the committees to research everything, not to mention the time put in by the legislatures just to hear it.  What a joke!!!!!  Wake up.  

Hey Peppo you high enough in the union to know where Jimmy is buried???????

 

johnhurd:

Hey Peppo you high enough in the union to know where Jimmy is buried???????

Another sheep,  BAAA BAAA. 

Bucca-di-Peppo - Your go polish your badge of honor and communism , becoming a business is becoming a taxcollector for free for the goverment and the last thing we need is to spend tax payer dollars on an employee to administer the checks and balances of keeping check of your union dues, you wanna be in damn union write your own check to the bastards.

Johnny- good one

BEK- wealthy and strong enough to bail out there own auto motive company we shall see how much the UAW contributes in the coming years at GM.

right to do bussiness:

Bucca-di-Peppo - Your go polish your badge of honor and communism , becoming a business is becoming a taxcollector for free for the goverment and the last thing we need is to spend tax payer dollars on an employee to administer the checks and balances of keeping check of your union dues, you wanna be in damn union write your own check to the bastards.

That's the point,  IF you read the bill summary which I know you didn't. The cost savings was $0.00 dollars.  It cost nothing to deduct the money and send to the union.  It's pure union busting.  Jealousy will get you no where.

right to do bussiness:

Johnny- good one

Huh Huh Huh Huh ya good one

right to do bussiness:

BEK- wealthy and strong enough to bail out there own auto motive company we shall see how much the UAW contributes in the coming years at GM.

They Contribute more than you know,  Pay attention some time.

 Unions and their contributions to bankruptcies.  Who would have thought this?  Ha, ha!

right to do bussiness:

Bucca-di-Peppo - Your go polish your badge of honor and communism , becoming a business is becoming a taxcollector for free for the goverment and the last thing we need is to spend tax payer dollars on an employee to administer the checks and balances of keeping check of your union dues, you wanna be in damn union write your own check to the bastards.

I'm just curious,  Why weren't Fiefighters and Police included in this bill??  And where is the republican outrage to that??  Oh wait, Police unions back republicans don't they...... Huh, odd.

PREP -PPO police and fire unions backing republicans never heard that back up a bit a look over the AIG bailout. Congress and fire and police pensions are held there.

preppo-you are mistaken and need to read how to reply to messages preppo , data entry isnt done for free taxpayer dollars are spent to log the dues now im sure the commiecrats dont mind their tax dollars supporting the communists however i do and 55% percent of americans dont care for it either. I have respect for most union empolyees except the one like you.

well answer the question will the UAW cough up 33 million when GM needs a hundred mill here in a few years. its coming. let me ask could you give them that $7,300 back today ? better keep it for at least 2 years. you figure out why.

right to do bussiness:

PREP -PPO police and fire unions backing republicans never heard that back up a bit a look over the AIG bailout. Congress and fire and police pensions are held there.

uhhhhhhh. what does that have to do with this bill???????

right to do bussiness:

preppo-you are mistaken and need to read how to reply to messages preppo , data entry isnt done for free taxpayer dollars are spent to log the dues now im sure the commiecrats dont mind their tax dollars supporting the communists however i do and 55% percent of americans dont care for it either. I have respect for most union empolyees except the one like you.

Again.......were you smart enough to read the bill analysis??  NO FISCAL RESPONSEABILITY TO THE TAXPAYER.  The senate version had a provision in it for the UNIONS to PAY for IT!!!! and it was still turned down.   Ignorance will get you no where.  Honestly, I feel you have no respect for anyone.  Just sayin.....

right to do bussiness:

well answer the question will the UAW cough up 33 million when GM needs a hundred mill here in a few years. its coming. let me ask could you give them that $7,300 back today ? better keep it for at least 2 years. you figure out why.

Well when the Salary members give their bonuses back I'm sure the UAW will too.  Oh, am I not supposed to talk about the salary folks....... The whole debacle is the UAW's fault right.  Be a good republican and blame someone else!! I don't blame you for feeling this way, it has worked for so long it just feels like the right thing to do.  That's all I hear these days, blabber blabber blabber.  Right wing Rhetoric spewed from the left wing demographic.  I don't know about you, but I'm too poor to vote Republican.

And No I wouldn't give it back to answer your question.  They are making enough to handle their business. As long as salary knows how to budget.