Michigan Votes Forum

 Here we go again you (MORON ) legislator are trying to get in a poor retiree pocket again and you muct be BRAIN dead if you can't think of anything else to get money back into our treasury.

I have One sujestion and it would give the state million of $$$$$$$$$$$ in the future and that is (For all you dead beet to go to part time) that would save the state.

What? Republican's wanting to increase taxes? That can't be true. This must be an error. O wait, it's just increasing taxes on retired people, not businesses or the wealthy. Whew, there for a minute I thought the Republicans were breaking the promise they made to the wealthy and corporations to cut their taxes.

Who cares if this hurts the retired people in Michigan. They're just free loaders anyway. Michigan doesn't need them. All they do is eat at the restaurants, go to the movies, shop at the stores, etc........ If they don't want to pay taxes on their pensions, they can move to Florida full time, (Florida doesn't tax your pension). Most of them go there in the Winter anyway, so no big deal. I'm sure that will work out just fine for Michigan.

Sure was smart to vote in these tax cutters, uh?

 Before you file your taxes it might be smart to recharacterize your Roth rollover and wait until you move to Florida to pay the federal tax.  No use paying Michigan taxes too on the rollover.

 Tell me why If I saved my money for 40 yrs and put it into Mutual Funds , just like pensions funds do ,I have to pay income tax to the state but , you pensioners (union) folks do'nt have to ?

I advise oldvet2 to consult a tax preparer if he is paying taxes on withdrawals from mutual funds in an annuity, 401K or IRA. They enjoy the same no state income tax as pensions, at least until Snyder gets his way.

 Interest and capital gains are taxed and so will be my IRA ,when I am forced to start withdrawls at age 701/2 . You also totally miss the point that my retirement is totally from my savings, on which I paid income tax on when I first earned it.

You did not pay taxes on the money you put into your IRA, up to a limit, nor on the interest it earned while sheltered in an IRA. Aren't you glad you'll be eligible for Social Security?

gypsy:

You did not pay taxes on the money you put into your IRA

But you have to pay taxes on it when you withdraw it. 

I don't like to pay taxes any more than anyone else but I don't understand why I should have to pay taxes on my retirement because it comes from money I saved while those who get defined benefits do not have to pay taxes.  Can someone explain that to me?

Sure. If you paid Michigan Income tax on distributions from your IRA after you are 591/2, you better get another accountant, or look it up yourselve. Page 13 of the instructions. 

So, now that I've saved you some money, tell me why I should have to pay Michigan income tax on my defined pension plan, if this bill passes, when you don't have to on your IRA distributions.

 Well IRA distrubutions are only a part of retirement income for us unwashed non union people, as is SSI . If I put the full amount in every year since inception it would not be enough to retire on. But as all entilement types you only care about yourself and what you can get. The whole point here is why should there be tax on any retirement income ! Not just you poor pension people.

Also Page 13 applies to people over 65 not 591/2.

A pension is not an entitlment my friend. Neither is Social Security. A defined pension plan was part of the contract I made with my employer, part of his expense to employ me. I worked for it, my employer made money, it is now his responsibility to fulfill the contract. Social Security is also something I paid for, as well as you, I presume. Medicare is in the same category. Medicaid is an entitlment. See the difference?

I regret you were not fortunate enough to receive a defined pension plan. At least you will receive SS retirement benfits. That's why SS was enacted.

I do not want your pension taxed by Michigan any more than I want my own taxed. If it is derived from IRA distributions, it isn't, at this time. Please re-read pg 13. If other income you receive is taxed by Michigan, you have my sympathy. My point is Michigan needs to retain retired residents, and lifting the income tax excemption on pensions is not the way to keep them here. Especially while Snyder is granting huge tax relief to corporations.

Seems Snyder has backed off of this idea already. No surprise there. Us older people go to the poles, rain or shine.

The area of Michigan where I am from is sucking in all the retirees from Chicago.  These are people who are snowbirds. They are residents of Michigan and go south in the winter. So they use VERY LITTLE of the resources, schools, etc. even though they pay property taxes. Now you want to tax their pensions. They'll just sell and become residents of Florida (no income tax) or Arizona (2% flat tax on income). I am a native Michigander and was looking forward to retiring in Michigan, but am now thinking of Florida or Arizona.

Can't these politicians think out of the box and try something new? IF you need to enact new taxes, how about a flat tax or a fair tax on consumables? The fair tax doesn't punish you for how much you make, it only punishes you on how much you consume. Those with children who use most of the resources will pay most of the taxes. Those seniors who consume less, will pay less.

Everytime I want to come back to Michigan, it does something to make me want to stay away.

 President William Howard Taft remarked " We live in a stage of politics, were Legislators seem to regard the passage of laws as much more improtant than the results of their enforcements."   This is a kodak moment so smile Legislators as you kick the teachers, seniors, unions down the road like a can.  I just had to use a little bit of Snyders words (Kicking the can down the road). 

After researching this it does seem to be just another tax increase to support overspending by the state.  I'd like to see further cuts in spending instead.

I too would like to see further cuts in spending by the state, in things like tax abatement's and exemptions for businesses unless they can show documented prove they produce enough jobs for Michigan residents to offset their tax relieve, rather than shifting the tax burden to retirees.

I would prefer they cut all corporate welfare and tax all businesses equally.

 I'm tired of the people we elect to protect the people.  Mostly as I see it they have their heads shoved up their *##.  The simple solution is to vote them out, and again, thank God we managed to get term limits in.  I also propose we vote Snyder out.  Sorry I ever voted for him; Virg, forgive my stupitity!

 The six that voted not to tax pensions on the republican side seem to think the people are stupid.  It was just a maneuver so the next time they run for office they can say "I didn't vote for that bill. "  With term limits these six I bet are hoping to jump into an open senate seat that will become open in Michigans next general election.  I like the recall on Snyder the Spider but the faster way would of been recall the elected senators who voted for the Snyder Spider budget.

 The people spoke !

But what were they saying?

 The Party is over !!!!

 My husband was a state employee, but not in a union. He retired in good faith after over 30 years in corrections, anticipating not having the state tax his pension(which was not free, he contributed).  He did not choose to have the pension not taxed, that was just the way it has been.  Now, after we've set our budget according to the non-taxed amount, the pension will be taxed.  I guess we will quit spending, thereby not putting any money into the economy.  He could get another job, but wait, there are NO jobs in Michigan.  The situation is STUPID!! Hope the next go round of elected officials will be better about serving the people instead of just themselves & their egos.

 I agree this tax on pensions is STUPID!  Judy Emmons and Rick Outman need to be voted out.  Both suport Snyder Spider's budget to tax pensions, cut to schools, not fund meals on wheels for seniors as part of this STUPID buget.

 Picking winners and losers is STUPID! Now everyone will pay State Income Tax on they're

 retierment income. No more freebies for the union pensioners. I contributed 100% to my retirement income ( I lived within my means and saved my money) . By the way 30 years and a pension is pretty nice . In the private sector most people work 40 or more years..

You might want to read the bill that passed. Not everyone will be paying state income tax on their pensions. And I really don't think the people were saying we should tax pensioners more and business less.

 They were  not saying tax pensioners more , they were saying tax all retierment income equally. They also were saying make our business tax competetive . The people have been heard and we have taken a step in the right direction.

I would say the Republicans have misinterpreted what the people were saying. If what you say was true, all pensions would be taxed equally. This bill does not do that. That doesn't even address the issue of why tax pensions at all. If you think giving businesses tax breaks makes them more competitive, wouldn't not taxing pensions make our state more competetive in attracting retired people who pay other taxes, like sales and property taxes that support our schools and communities. Florida certainly thinks so.

 Yes it would make us more competitive to not tax any retirement income . But the point here is that by not taxing pensions but taxing investment income is unfair. Florida ,like some other states have no state income tax,they make up the difference by higher sales and or higher property tax. I would say the Republicans have heard the people and are trying to change the tax and spend polices .

I agree Republicans are trying to change the "tax and spend" policies, but I really don't think the people were telling them they wanted pensions taxed. I think they wanted spending cuts, not tax increases. Your argument seems to be; even though I don't think they should tax my savings, since they do, I want them to tax your pension too. Wouldn't a more moral approach be to try and change the tax laws on your savings?

 73% of the Republican side voted in favor of taxing my pension.

The people didn't speak (or at least weren't heard).  The Republican Legislators and Synder kiss-ups spoke / voted their party line I believe.

I am already strapped,living on my meager pension, and paying taxes at every turn I take.

Thanks a bunch guys.   Read my lips: NO MORE TAXES!!!!!!!

Yes, Arizona is looking much brighter these days.

 Gypsy, I think you may be turning conservative when it suits your benefit. I will always say no tax is the way to go. Taxed Enough Already . Less taxes Smaller Goverment .

tometeacher:

Sorry I ever voted for him; Virg, forgive my stupitity!

I'm afraid Virg would have been much worse.

Old vet, it is hardly "conservative" to be against taxing pensions. I would never say "always". Like most sensible people, I believe there are certain things government must do, and only government can do, and that means we must pay for them, with taxes. I also, like most fairminded people, believe the tax burden should be proportioned fairly.

 Exactly, and that is what bill 4480 just did. Thank you for making my point !

Only if you believe taxing pensions while giving businesses tax breaks is fair would my statement make your point. That would take quite a convoluted sense of fairness, which it appears you have.

 My point is that all pensions or retierments should be taxed  or not taxed equally . Which  made my point . Your problems with business that gave you a livelyhood is your convoluted view .

Business doesn't give me my livelihood, my labor did that. Your point seems to be that although you feel it is unfair to tax your investments, since they are taxed, pensions should be taxed too. Now that's convoluted, and punitive.

 Business gave you the oppurtunity to use your labor without them you would have no livelyhood. Your convoluted view thinks your pension ( investments by the fund manager) are somehow untaxable while my retirement (investments by me) are taxable.

gypsy:

Business doesn't give me my livelihood, my labor did that.

You sold your labor to a business.  Without that business you would not have a market for your labor.  Your only other choice would be to start a business and purchase labor from others as needed.