Michigan Votes Forum

Introduced in the Senate on March 24, 2011

Click here to view bill details.

 FACT-

"...The government CANNOT make any objective standards for helmets without taking on liability. And since they are EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN from taking on any liability, they can NEVER make an objective standard for helmets. There it is. Without an objective standard it all becomes ad hoc and arbitrary. Ad hoc and arbitrary is the FOUNDATION of vague law- Vague law is UNCONSTITUTIONAL."

-Richard Quigley

I believe we are inviting many cases of brain damage and disability by not enforcing a helmet law for motorcyclists.There is no argument that makes any sense that promotes no helmets. Michigan will end up paying for the permanent medical care for those that incurred brain damage by their neglect of basic safety issues. Pardon the pun but, "It's a no brainer" decision.

 

 

This bill does not outlaw helmets. I am an adult who is perfectly capable of making educated desisions on my own. I do not need the government regulating what I wear. If you want to wear a helmet, wear one. I won't stop you. It's none of my business. The same as what I do is none of your business. Have you ever heard of personal responsibility, freedom, & liberty?

Amend the helmet law to allow adult choice.

Please vote for Freedom! Please vote yes on SB291.

 

 

 Quote from Bek; "I believe we are inviting many cases of brain injury and disability by not enforcing a helmet law for motorcyclists."

First of 4 misguided sentences in his quote. Please don't think I'm picking on anyone, but this is the typical belief of a non-rider. I do understand the concern, but it is up to us to educate the non-riding public. The non-riding public probably doesn't realize that a D.O.T. helmet is only "certified" safe at speeds up to 13.6mph. They also probably don't know that the MAJORITY of states (30) allow adult helmet choice. Their injury/fatality rate is no different than ours. In fact, free states injury/fatality rates are slightly lower than helmet states. Not much lower, but lower still.  A piece of plastic on your head isn't going to do anything to protect you from a 5,000lb F-150 going 60mph. If it could, then all 50 states would have a mandatory helmet law. Just as all 50 have speed limits, seat-belt laws and laws against drunk driving.

"There is no arguement that makes any sense that promotes no helmets."

First, this has never been a "anti-helmet" arguement but rather a "freedom-of-choice" issue. I don't know anyone, myself included, that would favor a law outlawing helmets. This bill would give adult riders, 21 and older and who have riding experience, the right to make their own decision. Isn't that the reason our forefathers crossed the ocean? As far as the reason to pass this bill, there are several. Since there is no actual safety benefits you have to look at the financial impact. Every state that surrounds Michigan is a free state. Therefore no out-of-state riders are coming here to ride. Furthermore, Michigan motorcyclists are leaving to ride in our neighboring free states. In other words we are being double-whammied on tourism revenue loss due to our existing law. I lived in California for three years ('91-'94). On 1-1-92, California's helmet law took effect. In '91, the local Harley shop was always busy. Just about every weekend there was some kind of event going on. But by Christmas of '93 they had a "going out of business" clearance sale. It had nothing to do with the economy, the economy was great in the '90s! It was the helmet law. California once had the highest number of registered motorcycles in the country, but not long after the passage of their helmet law, bike registrations were cut in half! Conversely, when Florida legalized freedom in 2000, the number of bikes registered in 2001 were 50% higher than the previous year and 110% higher by 2005! Michigan was the ONLY state to lose citizens according to the '10 census. We need to do anything and everything to help our economy.

"Michigan will end up paying for the permanent medical care for those that incurred brain damage by their neglect of basic safety issues."

Again, this is under the false assumption that a helmet will magically prevent brain injury. Neglect of basic safety issues? 85% of motorcycle accidents are CAUSED by car drivers "not seeing them." Who's the negligent party here? For the sake of arguement, let's assume a helmet provided just enough protection to prevent death. You would then most likely spend the rest of your life in a vegetative state. What's more expensive, $10,000 for a funeral, or years of life support? Do you know that the number one cause of death in motorcycle accidents is blunt force trauma to the body? Do you also know that the number one cause of death in car accidents is head trauma? Do you want to be forced to wear a helmet while driving your car?! Think it can't happen? 10 years ago did you ever think smoking in bars and private clubs would be outlawed? Back in the '70s did you ever think you would one day be forced to wear a seat-belt? If you were forced to wear a helmet in your car would you be okay with it as long as you were told it was under the guise of safety without there being any actual proof of it? It is absolutely frightening to me how easily people are willing to give up their liberties if they think it doesn't effect them. Whenever the gov't takes away your liberties, YOU LOSE!

"Pardon the pun but, 'It's a no brainer' decision."

This is actually true. Passing this bill would help our state economy without having to raise taxes or cut services. That truely is a "no-brainer!"

 I agree. Helping our states economy without having to raise taxes or cut services is a "no brainer." More important, what's more American than freedom-of-choice?

I have one simple question; If there where actually any truth to the nay-sayers gloom-and-doom, scare tactic rhetoric, why then do the MAJORITY of states (30) allow adult helmet choice?

 According to the National Center for Health Statistics, approximately 1.16% of total U.S. health costs are attributable to motor vehicle accidents. And the costs associated with the treatment of motorcyclists injuries account for less than 0.001% of total U.S. health care costs. Since 85% of motorcycle accidents are CAUSED by car drivers, they are only personally responsible for 15% of that less-than-0.001%. The majority of this cost is paid by privately purchased heath insurance. What remains is spread across the taxpayer base (which includes millions of taxpaying motorcyclists), is insignificant. So much for the "motorcyclists are a public burden" theory.

 

Source-  www.sbumaui.org/helmet_law_facts.pdf

 So, how long before this bill comes out of the Transportation Committee and back to the floor for a vote?

 Hopefully soon! We now also have a House bill to coincide with this one. It's HB 4608.

 Who in there right mind would try to persuade people to ride a motorcycle without a helmet.What possible reason could any public official have for trying to create this law.

The basic truth this Great country was founded upon.  FREEDOM!

 This ought to have some wonderful results in our Michigan Catastrophic Claims insurance program. Why do we feel it is necessary to have this program? I understand we are the only state that does.

 Will you allow me the Freedom to not to have to pay your hospital bills or raise your family if you suffer a head injury?

Yes, of course. If you want your life and freedoms controlled by government mandates I suggest you move to China.

I am so happy to see this bill passed in the Senate.  I have been riding motorcycles for 43 years and love riding in those states that allow me the choice.  Like the last two days temps running in the 90's and very uncomfortable riding with a helmet, but getting 54 miles to gallon of gas is great.  For you that think a helmet will save your life and help you save on your insurance, more power to you... WEAR IT, but don't tell me I have to. 

 

The other states that have made their states choice have less deaths than the states that are regulated and make motorcycles wear helmets. They also have seen a lot more bikers in their states spending dollars.  We sure could use that in this state.  Estimated numbers say 1.3 Billion dollars being spent by visiting motorcycles .   Are we going to see the number of accidents change in the state of Michigan?  YES!  But not because the law has been changed to allow motorcycles the choice, but because more motorcycles are being added daily to the Michigan roads.    

there is no real proof that a helmet WILL save your life in the event of a crash , I personally believe that with or without the helmet safe driving and oporating any motor vehicle is the key , and when there is a sudden crash that forces one head first into anything no DOT aproved helmet will stop a BROKEN NECK let alone head trauma ! anyone who believes that kind of nonsence is thinking through their diaper and not their helmet !

Amen to that brother !! 

ITS ALL ABOUT FREEDOM !!!!!!!!!!!!! its what this country WAS all about !! 

albaby2:

 Will you allow me the Freedom to not to have to pay your hospital bills or raise your family if you suffer a head injury?

 

 I don't expect you to pay for my injuries unless you CAUSE them! (TXT BACK L8R) 85% of motorcycle accidents are CAUSED by the car driver "not seeing them." No helmet can prevent that, but being more aware of motorcycles on the road can. Look twice, save a life, motorcycles are everywhere.

Another thing I don't understand about your comment is the assumption that wearing a helmet will somehow magically prevent hospital bills. At speeds in which motorcycles travel, no helmet can prevent a head injury. It's as if the anti-freedom folks think that not wearing a helmet will somehow transfer responsibility for the accident (kind of like Mark Fuhrman using the "N-word" made O.J. innocent). When Ben Roethlisberger had his accident little, if anything, was said about the woman who failed to yield the right-of-way and caused the accident. The main focus seemed to be that Roethlisberger wasn't wearing a helmet, as if that somehow made the accident HIS fault. I am truely amazed by some peoples ignorance!

As for the MCCA, Governor Snyder will soon be looking into insurance reform. This MAY include the repeal of MCCA as well as the no-fault system. Even the insurance companies now realize that no-fault is a horrible system. ALL of our neighboring helmet-choice states are at-fault states. Their rates are about HALF of what ours are!

I was curious if you ever considered changing the structure of your blog? Its very well written; I love what youve got to say. But maybe you could a little more in the way of content so people could connect with it better. Youve got an awful lot of text for only having 1 or two images. Maybe you could space it out better?

online homework help

 Dear Senator Kahn;

How much money did AAA donate to your campaign? If you have ever wondered why Michigan has the HIGHEST INSURANCE RATES IN THE NATION it's because of insurance company tools like Senator CON! $100,000 insurance amendment? Are you F-ing kidding me?! None of our surrounding states have ANY extra insurance amendments. States that have more recently allowed choice (TX- '97, FL- '00, PA- '03) only have a $10,000 amendment. My insurance company (Progressive) offers a MAXIMUM of $25,000. In other words, this amendment has essentially killed this bill. The vote count is about what I thought it would be, but why would our "supporters" allow such an amendment?

This is a non-partisan bill. Always has been. But the Republicans are supposed to be the party of "small government" and "individual liberty." Apparently Senator con didn't get that memo! He is just as big a commie as our former governor! Well we now have one more freedomless summer, which means one more summer of lost tourism revenue! RECALL ROGER NOW!!!

 THE PRICE THEY PAID

Happy Independence Day! Today is a day to reflect back on our forefathers and the absolute miracle that is America! Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence? Five signers were captured by the British as traitors and tortured before they died. Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned. Two lost their sons in the Revolutionary Army, another had two sons captured. Nine fought and died from wounds or hardships of the war. They signed and pledged their lives, their fortunes and their honor. What kind of men were they? 24 were lawyers and jurists. 11 were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners. Men of means, well educated. But they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured! Carter Braxton of Virginia, a weathy planter and trader, saw his ships swept from the sea by the British Navy. He sold his home and properties to pay his debts and died in rags as a free man. Thomas McKean was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move his family almost constantly. He served in the Congress without pay and his family was kept in hiding. His possesions were taken and he was left in poverty. His reward was independence for America. Vandals and/or soldiers looted the properties of Clymer, Ellery, Gwinnett, Hall, Heyward, Rutledge and Walton. At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson Jr. noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over his home for his headquarters; he quietly urged General George Washington to open fire. His home was destroyed and Nelson died bankrupt. Francis Lewis had his home and property destroyed. The British jailed his wife and she died within a few months. John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying, their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and grist mill were laid to waste. For more than a year he lived in the forests, returning home find his wife dead and his children vanished. Weeks later he died from exhaustion. Norris and Livingston suffered similar fates. Such were the stories and sacrifices of the American Revolution. These were not wild eyed, rabble rousing ruffians. They were soft spoken, educated men of means. They had security, but VALUED LIBERTY MORE! They pledged for the support of this declaration of the devine providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor. They gave you and me a free and independent America. It's up to us to keep it that way! The history books never told you a lot of what happened in the Revolutionary War. We didn't just fight the British, we were British subjects at that time and we fought our own government! Perhaps now you can see why our Founding Fathers had a hatred for standing armies and allowed through the Second Amendment for everyone to keep and bear arms! And if they were alive today, there is absolutely NO DOUBT that they would refuse to wear a helmet under government mandate, no matter the cost to themselves! Nor would they tolerate a commie like Roger Kahn's $100,000 insurance clause! We should learn from them! They are likely rolling over in their graves because the liberty they fought so hard for and paid a very high price for is being slowly taken away from us. And most of us just sit there and complain. Just like a frog in a pot of water that has been slowly heated to the boiling point. What will it take for you to stand up and fight for the freedom that is your heritage? Complaining doesn't cool the water much; will you ever decide to jump out of the pot? Or will you slowly boil to death never realizing the danger? Only you can decide if you freedom is worth fighting for. If so, now is the time to get of the couch and do something!

 Radical islamic terrorists have a lot of bass-ackward ways of thinking. One of the many idiotic things they do is FORCE women to wear things they may not want to wear. One wouldn't think such nonsense would be tolerated here. But Roger (the rino) Kahn and 13 other senators voted against this bill. I'm not going to stoop to the Vice-President's level and call those who disagree with me "terrorists." However, Roger the rino and the 13 other senators do have at least one thing in common with them!

FYI, communist Cuba DOES NOT have a helmet law and Michigan STILL DOES! Just sayin!

 FREEDOM!!! :)

How long is  "LAID OVER ONE DAY" going to last?

 The Free Press recently wrote a piece slamming freedom of helmet-choice. The Free Press is hardly a "Free Press" of ideals.  This LONG battle by grass roots motorcyclists against the MASSIVE, big money insurance lobby, state bureaucracy, is truely a David v.s. Goliath story, with the motorcyclists taking on over 43 lobby groups and winning the legislature. A true "FREE" Press (along with any other freedom-loving American) would be hailing this legislative victory as a HUGE score for democracy! It's no wonder that over 50% of the public doesn't bother to vote. They have lost faith in our political system. The Free Press has truely ignored the principles of a "FREE" Press!

Happy New Year, may 2012 be the year of FREEDOM!

 The Free Press recently wrote a piece slamming helmet-choice. The Free Press is barely a "Free Press" of ideals. This LONG battle by grass-roots motorcyclists against the MASSIVE Michigan insurance lobby and state bureaucracy is truely a David v.s. Goliath story. With motorcyclists single-handedly taking on over 43 lobby groups and winning the legislature, a true "FREE" Press would be hailing this legislative victory as a big score for democracy! One would think that the little guy taking on and defeating big gov't and a corporate giant such as the insurance companies would be a positive story. Is it any wonder that over 50% of the public doesn't bother to show up and vote on election day? Many have lost faith in our political system and the Free Press has once again ignored the principles of a FREE press.

Happy New Year. May 2012 be the year of FREEDOM!

 Happy New Year. A local liberal rag recently wrote a piece slamming helmet-choice. One would think that the little guy taking on a corporate giant such as the insurance industry, with all their big-money lobbying ability, and winning the legislature would be a HUGE victory for democracy. I thought that liberals would be happy to see the 1%ers lose. Apparently not when that means less gov't control! Definately not a "free" press of ideals!

88:

How long is  "LAID OVER ONE DAY" going to last?

 

 The Senate has to have a concurrence vote. Meaning a "yes" or "no" vote to the changes made in the House. No further amendments or changes can be made. Then it's on to the Governor. As for how long, hopefully soon. Now would be an EXCELLENT TIME to contact Gov. Snyder and tell him you would like to see this bill signed into law. Here's how, write to;

Governor Rick Snyder 

State Capitol

P.O. Box 30013

Lansing, Mi. 48909                                                                                                                                                                               

 As BAN-holm left office she signed a bill into law limiting the hours and number of passengers that a new driver under the age of 18 can have in their car. I'm sure this legislation had good intentions. But a report from the NHTSA that was just released stated that even though overall traffic fatalities had dropped by 16%, the number of fatalities among new drivers under the age of 18 had increased by 11%. Proving, yet again, that "big brother" paternal governing doesn't work. The bill Jennifer signed was nothing more than "feel good" legislation that accomplished nothing other than taking away parental rights.

The same can be said for Michigan's outdated helmet law. ALL of our neighboring states put this issue to bed 3 1/2 decades ago. If there were actually any truth to the negative consequences that the nay-sayers claim, then EVERY state would have a helmet law. Just as every state has speed limits and laws against drunk driving. The fact that most states don't require helmet usage for adult riders should tell you something.

Maybe a little math would help. One car, six kids. One bad accident equals six dead or injured kids. Did you ever think the increase in fatalities might be because more kids are driving? Limiting the number of kids in a car is more than "feel good." It's wise. As for the helmet law, I've said it before and I'll say it again. If an adult wants to ride without a helmet, he has a right to be stupid. He also has a responsibility to be insured.

 2 kids X 3 cars = 6 dead/injured kids as well. You're just using 3x the gas! It should be the parents job to parent their kids, not the states. I'm sure there are those in NC who would agree with me (turkey and cheese sandwich anyone?)

I also take offense to the "right to be stupid" remark. Riding a motorcycle is risky with or without a helmet. Only in low speed accidents does a helmet have any safety impact. It is also illegal to ride without insurance. We have to follow the same rules that apply to car drivers.

This is a good way of saying what a helmet can do.  Anyone that thinks a helmet is going to protect you at 70 mile per hrs. better think it over.  People die in cars at slower speeds, should we pass a law to use helmets in car, say going over 45 mile per hrs.?  I have been riding motorcycles  for 45 years and getting out of Michigan is one of my best rides, that is because I stop and remove my helmets.  See better and hear better.

Call it being stupid if you you like.  But you should look at all the states around the state of Michigan and see that these state also must have alot of what you call stupid adults.  Maybe we should all have insurance that is called your fault, not no fault.  That way when I ride my Motoecycle with out a helmet my insurance cover me and your cover you. Someone must be a fault and that should be the one to pay the bills. Lets pass a law where a car is at fault and he of she going to jail for not seeing that motorcycle.  OPEN YOUR EYES AND GET OFF YOUR CELL PHONE AND SEE ME. 

My daughter and son-in-law survived a collison with a car on a state highway, that was severe enough that their helmets put dents on the cars roofline right above the door, They were badly injured, but survived. The statement taht they ought to make car drivers wear helmets is also an idiotic statement. Maybe they should require crash testing of motorcycles, require cages around the driver and passenger, and airbags too, Don't be so damned stupid.

The number one cause of death in motorcycle accidents in all states, those that do and don't allow freedom of choice, is blunt force trauma to the body. The number one cause of death in auto accidents is head injury! As our rights and liberties keep on slowly eroding away, don't be surprised if a car helmet mandate does indeed happen! Someday someone in gov't, who thinks that they are better suited to know what's best for you, will introduce car helmet legislation. Did you ever think a day would come where you couldn't smoke in a bar or pack a turkey and cheese sandwich in your child's lunchbox?  There is no shortage of those in gov't that want to pass freedom imposing laws because it's "for your own good" and because "you're incapable of making your own decisions." 

Don't try to make it sound like big brother is making us stop smoking in restaurants and wear helmets on motorcycles "for our own good." That is naive. Smoking in restaurants is bad for people who don't smoke, and those who have to work there. The smoking ban is to protect those people, not the ones foolish enough to smoke. They can still smoke and damage their bodies, somewhere they won't damage other peoples bodies. The helmet law is to protect the insurance companies and government programs that have to pay huge amounts of money caring for closed head injuries. That is why I support your right to ride with out a helmet, as long as you have ENOUGH insurance to pay for the rest of your life care if you receive a closed head injury in an accident.

Big brother paternal governing is alive and well. You must be blind not to see that! For the record, I don't smoke cigarettes. Nor do I approve of smoking in restaurants where people are trying to eat. Nor do I support workplace smoking. But a bar? Smoking is still allowed at the casinos. That proves it has nothing to do with "safety." Not when there is money to lose at least. I do however enjoy an occasional cigar. Nothing compliments a fine, top-shelf Scotch whiskey like a good cigar. The only place I would ever do this is at a PRIVATE CLUB at which I am a member. I can no longer do this. Actually I can because they don't enforce the rules.

As for insurance, if this bill passes, Michigan will have the strictest insurance requirements for motorcyclists than any other freedom-of-choice state. That being said, 85% of motorcycle accidents are the fault of the car driver. No helmet can prevent that. But if they are the ones that are CAUSING the accidents then they should be the ones who have enough insurance to cover the costs of injuries!

 And the car drivers should be held liable because you chose to drive a vehicle that is inherently dangerous and offers no protection?