Michigan Votes Forum

Introduced in the House on March 1, 2011

Click here to view bill details.

Although I would prefer a total elimination of business taxes, this is a much better way to collect revenue than the MBT and should be passed.

Right. This will make it much easier for corporations to avoid paying any taxes, so the next step will be to increase the income tax on wage earners.

gypsy:

This will make it much easier for corporations to avoid paying any taxes, so the next step will be to increase the income tax on wage earners.

Corporations simply pass taxes on to consumers anyway.  Taxes on corporations are taxes on customers.

The proposal regarding certificated credits is stupid.  Continue to optionally file the MBT?  Look, if you want to allow the MBT certificated credits, then at least do them intelligently.  Allow them to be used against the MI Corp tax, for maybe the next three years, and then they expire.  Having to optionally support the MBT structure is silly, and wastes state resources supporting the stupid MBT.  If you are going to go for a clean, simple corporate tax, then do it.  Don't add these kind of stupid rollovers.  This goes for the business loss carryovers too.  You have three years to use it, or it's gone. 

Have one corporate tax, one rate, and never have parallel tax calculation schemes, like AMT or alternate depreciation calcs. 

Don't have special credits supporting one business over another.  For example, the movie credit is silly.  If movies are made in Michigan, it should be because we have local talent, varied locations, iconic scenary, and four seasons.  It shouldn't be because the rest of the businesses and people are subsidizing 40% of the production costs.  We tried that with the "Health Care Corridor" and when it wasn't supported enough, business like Pfiser bailed out and added to our economic woes. 

Also, eliminate the whole gross receipts definition from the new tax. What is it there for?  Have the corporate tax apply to all corporations, big and small, and eliminate the small business credit.  Big or small, everyone pays the same rate on income, and that's it.  Don't exempt agricultural businesses. 

Don't have income limit cut-outs.  If you have a $3,400 exemption for personal expenses, then why wouldn't it apply to everyone, even the rich?  They are entitled to an exemption for personal expenses.  With a flat rate for all, the high-earners will pay more.  Phase outs add complexity and unfairness. 

I'm glad to see the plethora of credits gone; tax simplification will help our economy.  Everyone should be able to figure out their Michigan corporate tax liability without surprises.  6% of taxable income. 

Dump the old MBT nexus exceptions.  We'll fall under P.L. 86-272 like every other state.  No need to re-invent the wheel for Michigan purposes.  Let's just use the round one that all the other state's use.

Business taxes MAY be a tax on customers, but only if the business is in a position to raise its prices.  Otherwise it may mean reduced payments for employees (either lower salaries or fewer employees hired because a business doesn't see increased profits in expanding their business) or lower profits for owners/shareholders.  

I'm always amazed that everyone wants MORE taxes on businesses/corporations, like somehow businesses need to pay their own way. Businesses DO pay their own way, by hiring people who do pay taxes and by providing a good or service for which people are willing to pay.  You are right, only PEOPLE pay taxes, so it's only a question of how the business or corporation passes on the tax.

If you think unemployment is high now, just picture how much higher unemployment would be if the government decided to impose a 100% tax on profits.  Then work your way down from % to % and think of when it's even worth it to have a for-profit business.  Obama's dream would come true if only not-for-profit businesses existed in America.

 Have they all lost their minds?  The only thing in this that makes sence is the getting rid of free money for earned income thing.  Taking away homestead tax  is nuts.  how will people afford to live in Michigan if their taxes sky rocket because of property taxes?   We worked all our lives for pensions and they are now trying to add another tax burdon to us.

Instead of all these cuts to legal Michigan residents why don't you pass a bill that cuts ALL aid to illigals, would save you a whole lot of money

I would like to see a breakdown of how much this bill is increasing taxes to all michigan residents and not just hot button issues like pensioners and low income people. I bet the general public does not realize how much giving small business money will cost them.

Small business can't leave the state , their customers are here.

While I know Michigan needs to be more business-friendly, I cannot support raising taxes on the citizens of this state. For all her bluster, Jennifer Granholm claimed she slashed budgets to the bone and dumped the rest on the legislature to resolve. The trouble is there was never one fiscal budget less than the previous year's. It was all political smoke and mirrors to dupe the public into thinking our elected officials were doing their due diligence.

Now we have a tax shift from business to the dwindling number of taxpayers in this state under the guise of reform. If ANY elected official is reading this, I have one message to you: "IT'S THE SPENDING, STUPID!!!" Try and get your mind around this concept - we simply can't keep doing business as we have in the past as we don't have the money any more. Too many businesses and residents have given their votes of confidence with their feet by moving out of state. We were the only state to LOSE population in the last census - doesn't that tell you something?

What we need are people with the guts in the legislature to make the necessary cuts in actual spending to make our state a very attractive place to work and do business. The budget must be built from the ground up - including K - 12 education. (Note to the MEA: We need serious reforms, not more BS and demagoguery.) We need cuts in welfare by capping limits to entitlements to Americans and kicking everyone else off that is not here legally; cuts in new road construction and more emphasis in preventive maintenance and repairs; reforms to compensation for state workers such as limiting the amount of benefit spending each employee can have while giving that employee the freedom to pick which benefits (and levels) those benefit dollars can buy; and a general reduction in employment numbers to 2006 levels for starters. I am certain there are many more good ideas to save tax dollars and operate the state at an optimum level while not giving us a sixth Great Lake full of red ink.

Tough decisions must be made and there will be crying from those who want the status quo. One nice thing about living in a free country is those who do not want to reform the state to make it more palatable for business and taxpayers, they are free to move somewhere else. Tax shifts, federal handouts from freshly printed money and burying our heads in the sand are recipes for more and more bad news for a once great state.

Not-a-RINO:

What we need are people with the guts in the legislature to make the necessary cuts in actual spending to make our state a very attractive place to work and do business.

This is idiocy. Cuts in education, law enforcement, parks, public services, and infrastructure will make Michigan LESS ATTRACTIVE for people and businesses, and accelerate people moving out of the state.

Deficits are created by an imbalance between revenue and expenditure. There are two ways to eliminate them. Get more revenue from taxes or spend less. Spending less makes Michigan less attractive, so what the state really needs is to raise taxes. Business that use public services and benefit from the state expenditures on them should pay their share, not get off the hook. Snyder's taxes on the poor, students, and retired persons is an awful way to raise money. Retirees will have less to spend and therefore businesses will suffer and lay off more people.

Can't you see the fundamental thrust of this radical Republican program. It is aimed at impoverishing the state and putting all property and wealth in the hands of people who already have plenty of it. The starving poor may work for lower wages, but what kind of industry will develop around uneducated workers. Michigan is going to suffer and head downhill.

I have been a life- long republican and I cannot stand for any tax increase. By replacing the MBT, raising income tax, cutting funding for education, and taxing pensions that you have turned you back on the everyday citizens. I and my fellow seniors vote and have long memories when it comes to politicians that support tax increases. I am mad as hell and I am not going take.

Frank Martin

I applaud those who voted in favor of this bill and, yes,  I am unemployed (not an evil Koch motivated baby seal killer) and it’s passage will cost my family money:  we are on the low end of middle class.    It is time to make Michigan a competitive state again by making everyone have a stake in the success of our state.  What that means is everyone, even the poor and elderly, needs to pay taxes to become a stakeholder in what happens in our state.  We have to understand that business needs to thrive and compete with other states and countries these days.  It pains me to see my children leave the state (with their college education I paid for) for opportunities elsewhere.   There are simply no jobs here due to the policies of old.  The old days are over and we in Michigan are simply not on a level, competitive, playing field with the rest of the world.  We have allowed the unions, special interests and those who game our political system “special rights and opportunities” at the expense of everyone else. At some point, business just leaves for greener pastures and that what has been happening for the last 10 or so years.    Look at New York and California, two other high tax states with repressive business climates, the former has lost 70% of their young families over the last 10 years.  Both are loosing business and manufacturing business at a devastating rate.  California is in about the same situation and NY and Michigan is rapidly closing in on the two just mentioned.

I give Rick credit for taking the stand to discourage government dependency at the expense of free enterprise.   The people of Michigan voted Rick in for that precise reason.  It is a two way street.  You can take the stand that the bill will hurt our seniors (I’m really close to that now), children and our poorest but in reality, these groups are very well off in relation to the poor and old in other states and countries: even in relation to how our parents and children lived 50 years ago.

In short, let’s give Ricks plan a try. The logic of his proposal makes economic sense. I realize it won’t be painless but the alternative is much less desirable.

Maybe a small business won't want to leave its customers, but if there's another state where it's easier for a small business owner to make a decent profit, there will be new customers in the other state. Alternatively, the business could just close its doors and call it a day. I seem to notice several empty shops, where once goods and services were sold by owners and their employees.  

Unfortunately, Sam, business owners are not hostages who can be held in Michigan whether they want to be somewhere else or not. They're people who want to make a profit selling that which people wish to buy.  It's hard enough when the economy is this cruddy and their customers can barely afford to buy anything.  Socking it to them with business taxes makes it even harder.  

Try to keep in mind, businesses, large and small, employ people, people who then pay taxes.  Lowering business taxes is cheaper for the state than paying unemployment or welfare to more unemployed workers.

Oh, and my husband and I will be killed by this tax change.  So be it.  If the businesses I like to buy from remain viable, it's worth it. 

In case you haven't noticed, Frank, under Michigan's Democrat rule, the state has become something of a wasteland.  Give the Republicans a chance to make it strong again.  If you insist on NO spending cuts but NO tax increases, Michigan will continue to fall.

I hate that my husband and I will be paying significantly more income taxes, but until the state can print money like the federal government does and inflate into poverty all of us retired people living on fixed income, I'll have to vote for the Republicans who are making the hard choices to make Michigan strong again. 

In case you haven't noticed Minnie, Michigan has thrived under both Democratic, (yes, that is the name of their party) and Republican parties because of the auto industry, and their union, which provided jobs and a tax base, driving the economy. When that collapsed, our economy collapsed with it. Neither the Democrats, (that's members of the Democratic party) nor unions, nor Republicans for that matter, are to blame for that, at least not in Michigan.

Michigan must cut spending where it can, but not to the point of making Michigan unattractive to future development. In order to do that, taxes will need to increase. I disagree that taxes on business or corporations is a tax on everyone. I believe the market is driven more by demand than supply. If a business or corporation has a product that is in demand, he will find the price that will give him the most volume in sales, what the market will bear. To tax from the bottom up is the real job killer. Taxing from the top down is much more effective and market friendly. Jobs are created by businesses making more of the product they sell, not by them being able to pay less in taxes.

Now that there is no single business tax, no michigan business tax, and now grocery stores do not have to mark their items; will we see grocery prices go down? I will be watching. Will businesses like II Stanley and Denso start hiring off the street instead of using temp agencies? Will we see wages go up? I do not see how taxes solve our problems. We need to make things in Michigan again. I've lost two jobs due to outsourcing. One was outsourced to Mexico and now this one to privatization. I'm not getting any younger and at my age do not wish to go into 20K debt to get another degree. I will be watching and I always turn out to VOTE!

We cannot raise income taxes at all here. I am not sure what they are thinking here. So many other options then this. I hope they go the other route here. f1 tours

It looks like our law makers have been pretty busy lately. I am actually intrigued to see that they are thinking about modify the taxing again and again until we won't be able to see their trick anymore. There's always a trick. The only way that could make me agree with paying higher taxes is if part of my taxes is distributed to charity, I learned about my options from John Studzinski.