Michigan Votes Forum

An attempt to move Michigan workers further down the economic ladder. Terrible legislation in a state built on union labor and union worker's tax dollars.

Finally a move to free Michigan private business and workers from the socialist created unions. Unions are bankrupting all States just like they did General Motors and Chrysler.

Unions were introduced to this country in the 1850s by German Marxists. They no longer protect the worker. They are a political apparatus designed to advance socialist power. They impose a huge burden on the larger society. Strict limits should be imposed on all unions and forced unionization should be banned.

 If unions were so great "workers" would be flocking to them . "Workers" would not need to be forced to join (or at least pay dues) as a condition of employment. If you want job security, be the best at what you do. We have all heard the stories about the new guy in a union shop being told to "slow down- you'll make the rest of us look bad".

If unions are so great why are so many companies moving to right to work states? cuz its warmer ....nope!

Why is my sister who runs a daycare from her home forced to pay union dues on state subsidized low income families she serves. What representation is she receiving from the union?

I could go on but I think my point has been made, and I haven't even touched on the unions political,communist angle.

If this bill passes, I'll work to make sure my area becomes a RTW zone.

 SB 120 and SB 116 are a "skirt-cleaning" measure for the Governor and Legislature.  Their lack of courage kicks the responsibility for local units of government or local school districts to take on unions, far from a "level playing field".  The Governor and House/Senate in Lansing need to step up and pass a State-wide Right to Work law that covers all public employees, in conjunction with bills that remove mandatory arbitration for all public unions.  If we don't want to be the last one over the fence in the Mid-West, we better get moving NOW.  Otherwise, we will lose population and businesses who find a more favorable tax environment in neighboring states (Ohio, Wisconsin, Indiana, Pennsylvania, etc)  Oppose this legislation, and support HB 4205, etc.

 How about the whole state a right to work zone !

How about not turning our state into Mississippi. Saying we don't need unions anymore is like saying since we haven't had a car accident, we don't need insurance.

 Whats wrong with Mississippi ?

It would be easier to answer if the question posed was "What's right with Mississippi?"

 Have you ever been there?

Yes I have.

 I have also, and my opinion is its is a very nice state, very rural, but also has beautiful beaches,and forested areas. The people are friendly, also very self motivated. They have nice roads and clean cities. So just what is it that you dislike about Mississippi?Other than its a right to work state.

Mississippi has, for instance, the lowest per capita income of all the states, ranks as the lowest in health care for it's citizens, and in 2008 ranked last among the 50 states in academic achievement. But it's not all bad. They're only the third worst for litter.

 You forgot to mention that they have a 21.2 % lower cost of living . But wait , you don't care about that you just need to have someone or something to make look bad, its a left thing.  As far as health care , you mean free health care  ( Medicaid ) .Gee i wonder how high the academic achievement is in the UAW leadership. By the way gypsy I am not attacking the UAW employees just the UAW leadership ,including the floor level committee men. Now just explain to me why you dislike Mississippi so much.

Maybe a course in remedial reading would help oldvet, with extra attention to comprehension. I didn't say I disliked Miss., I said Michigan shouldn't become like Miss.. I don't see anything unusual about the state with the lowest per capita income having also a low cost of living. I would expect property and goods in our poorest state would be cheaper than in a wealthier state. As far as health care, I didn't say "free" health care, and I didn't mean free health care. I meant the performance of their health care system. Mississippi ranks high in obesity, diabetes, and high blood pressure. I certainly don't want Michigan to rival Mississippi in any of those categories.

UAW employees choose our representatives and leaders. You attack them, you attack us.

 I have 1 brother, 2 brother in-laws,and a mother in-law (all retired from GM ) and none of them would have anything to do with the UAW . They all agree the union leadership is corrupt and not needed. One brother in-law used the Beck Law against the union to have them stop taking money from his dues to support the Democratic Party . They all claim that voting for leadership in the union is a fixed process. I am sure they are not the only ones in your ranks that feel that way .

Like I said before, maybe if you did some research rather than depended on anecdotes, you might see things differently. Your family needs to realize what side of the bread the butter's on, if you know what I mean?

gypsy:

Like I said before, maybe if you did some research rather than depended on anecdotes, you might see things differently. Your family needs to realize what side of the bread the butter's on, if you know what I mean?

 Tell me about which side of the bread the butter is on.I don't know what you mean.

Right to not pay dues=Right to Work Zone

OldVet2:

I have 1 brother, 2 brother in-laws,and a mother in-law (all retired from GM ) and none of them would have anything to do with the UAW . They all agree the union leadership is corrupt and not needed.

I'm sure they would rather be working for minimum wage than retired and drawing a nice pension. They have my sympathy.

 Actually one of them retired at 52 ,and went to work at Wal-Mart partime, and makes over $14.00 an hour. The only people that make minimun wage are entry level kids looking for summer jobs. Of course the democrats forced minimum wage up to the point many kids no longer can find summer jobs.

OldVet2:

Actually one of them retired at 52 ,and went to work at Wal-Mart partime, and makes over $14.00 an hour.

And I'm sure he's quite comfortable drawing his UAW bargained for pension and health care.

  He is quite comfortable drawing his uaw extorted pension and health care.

Jealous perhaps?

 Actually not at all I just got off the phone with him .  He is visting my winter home in Florida, he said he was drinking a cold lemonade and listening to Rush.

 Gypsy.  I just read that in Monroe County Michigan last week John King who owns a non-union electrical contracting company ,walked outside his home in the middle of the night and discovered an individual painting "SCAB" on the side of his truck. After yelling at  the individual to stop,he was shot in the arm. Found at the scene was a knife that was to be used to slash the tires .Probably not a union thug though, right ?

PS: Lets see, how will you spin this ? I Know! The guy hired underage children of illegal aliens and forced them to work in unsafe conditions,for pennies.

If the story is true, I would say it was a vandal, or even a thug, since you like that word so much. But union and thug are two words, meaning two different things. Whether the criminal was in a union, or a street gang, is undetermined, according to your little story.

You seem to need to resort to anecdotes to get the point across you hate unions. I get that. You hate unions. You blame them for every economic affliction known to man, and every crime commited. I understand your position completely. You have been successful as a businessman, so everyone that works for someone else is viewed as less of a person, on a lower scale, than their employer. I don't agree. A man's worth is not determined by his sucees in business, or his social standing. There are good and bad people at every level of income and in every job, from business owner to janitor. Being in a union doesn't make one a thug. Likewise being the owner of a business doesn't make one a Simon Legree. Some thugs join unions, and some own businesses. And some people form opinions based on what serves their needs only.

OldVet2:

he said he was drinking a cold lemonade and listening to Rush.

A perfect example of a ditto head. Collecting UAW bargained for pension and healthcare, and listening to a drug addict blather on the radio about why he doesn't deserve it, and telling him what he should do to make sure future generations aren't as fortunate as he is.

 So only your view is the correct view from what you just said. I have never talked or looked down on anyone on this site . On the other hand you have . I have not resorted to calling commenters names  as you so like to do  The only facts you want to hear are the facts that suit your view. I have watched you try to talk down to everyone on this site that has a view other than yours. I have also seen you make yourself look quite foolish( with some humorous entertainment for me ). My point is: If unions were so great everyone would be trying to join one. I make it on my own merit i don't need a union to do it for me.

Read the news ,my little story is true.

Breaking news : Between the UAWs inability to save jobs in the North,its failure to unionize plants in the South ,the chasing of Audi to Mexico,and the rejection of the German unions ,there is a bright side for Bob King this week: At least none of his members were caught by news cameras smoking pot this week.

Of course there is always next week.

Maybe re-reading my post would help oldvet. I am not saying only my view is correct. I am, in fact, saying quite the opposite. I am saying, and did say, there are thugs in all walks of life. You seem to suggest they only exist in unions, since this fits your low opinion of unions.

If you feel like you are being talked down to, maybe you should elevate your conversation.

The idea that you made it on your own merit I'm sure makes you very proud, but the fact is we all depend on each other in this life. Just because workers unite in a union to give themselves a bigger voice doesn't diminish the accomplishments of the individual. Are you not a member of at least one organization? If not, you are a citizen of the US I presume, making you a member of these United States at least. Try making it in the world without being a citizen of a country. That would be tough, right?

As for providing you with entertainment, I am quite happy to. Whether you know it or not, you have gained from our conversation, as have I, and others as well.

I'm sure if the news media tried harder, they could find another union member breaking the law. Keep in mind, Bob King didn't hire these people, the management at the auto companies did. Maybe the news could point their cameras into the executive suites one day. Who knows what malfeasance they may find.

gypsy:

Just because workers unite in a union to give themselves a bigger voice doesn't diminish the accomplishments of the individual.

And I venture to guess that very few people would have a problem with 'workers' uniting in a union if they didn't have the guns of the government behind them forcing us to hire them or keep them as employees.  The relationship between business owners and those who wish to sell their labor should be voluntary.

I assume when you say the "guns of government" you are referring to labor laws and regulations used to assure collective bargaining is fair to both sides. I'm sure you don't mean guns in a literal sense, since actual government guns have been used against 'workers' many times in the past, never against businesses.

 Once again you move the target and distort the facts . gypsy you are truly a joke .

 This would be a great bill and would benefit people who are not very fond of joining a Union, expecially families who have relocated from "Right to Work" states.  It also gives citizens of Michigan the right to choose yes and no to a Union while being able to get dthe job they like without being forced to join the Union.  Excellent bill and from a person who worked for a Union for 37 years and have seen it all.

 That person 37yr member sellout probably has 'got his' and probably 'getting more' so what does he care about the workers now.  Because of unions it is possible to have a living wage, if the unions are gone so will the wages of working stiffs.  As it is CEO pay is $200 to $1 for the worker. The Ceo can destroy a company and fly away with his golden parachute. No concerns about that, however there is always a need to cut from the worker. No Unions and we will be back to 1910 no weekends off, low wages unsafe working conditions, not to mention the movement to get rid of child labor laws. Read a history book friend.

 Perfect K$$h answer.  1850 huh?

 Wow! 1850 huh?

 40hr work weeks ,child labor,unsafe labor ? Do you realize these are law, not only something a union can give you.Right to work gives the worker the choice to belong to a union or not. It does not stop unions from existing.

Unions were instrumental in getting those laws passed oldvet, and laws can, and have, been changed. What do you think this site you are commenting on is about? Right to work (for less) doesn't stop unions from existing, it just takes away their ability to exist and function. Sort of death by a thousand cuts; which of course, is yours and the author of this bill's wishes. Unions brought the worker into the middle class, and unions are needed to keep us there. If you and your CEO buddies don't have enough money and power to satisfy yourselves, how about trying to keep the Chinese workers from earning more money, (they're starting to organize over there) rather than trying to make American workers work for Chinese wages.