Michigan Votes Forum

 Royally unfair to devalue the contributions of thousands of dedicated school employees across our state with this draconian measure.  They should not be singled out as scapegoats for a budget crunch created and perpetuated in Lansing.  Creating disincentives for bright young minds to enter the field of education, all while spouting the need to prepare a highly educated workforce for Michigan's 21st century jobs is foolish to say the least.  I hope it fails.

 Really?  This sounds like it makes TONS of sense!  Force experienced teachers out to hire younger (cheaper) teachers and reduce their pay (paying more for ins & pension).  I wouldn't have a problem with this execpt they just passed a $118 per pupil cut, and more cuts are expected!  How can you ask teachers to do more with less?  Less pay on top of reduced resources at their schools.  I know times are tough, but don't expect educators to keep raising the bar, and getting students ready for the 21st century when the districts they work in can't afford books and class sizes are 35-40.  If this doesn't signal that the way schools are funded needs to be changed, I don't know what will.  Real bright Lansing!

With the 1.6% pension multiplier as a carrot, Governor Granholm's original school employee retirement proposal was clever, but insidious.  Without the added pension multiplier, however, the contribution increase and loss of benefits still in the bill are now downright UNFAIR.  Plus, what effect will the loss of 40,000 veteran school teachers have on the quality and continuity of education?

Why are school employees being singled out for what is essentially a tax increase to fund their own pension, while losing retiree benefits?  The retirement and benefit plan is an obligation the state must fund.  The tax on school employees only supplants the state's obligation.

Moreover, a forced increase of 3% in an employee's retirement contribution is equivalent to a 3% pay CUT!
The plan to make school employees pay 20% of their health insurance is also ill-conceived.  On a health insurance policy costing $15,000, a 20% premium copay is $3000.  For a teacher with an average salary of $50,000, that $3000 premium payment amounts to an additional 6% pay CUT!

Together, SB 1227 and SB 1046 seek to CUT school employees' take-home pay by 9%!  Really?!?!  Are you serious?!?!

These bills are nothing more than a huge penalty on school employees, who did nothing more than choose to work in that most noble profession, and who expected decent (certainly not lavish) compensation in return.  And the bills perpetuate the repeated attacks that Lansing has made on this profession over many years.

Is that an honest way to fix the state budget?  This problem deserves a proper solution - one that the whole state should bear equitably.  So why does the legislature continue to "tinker around the edges" with the problem?

You cannot continue to cut state spending, or impose new taxes on a single employee group, to the detriment of state services and quality of life.  That approach is short-sighted for the welfare of the state and mean-spirited to the narrow sector of the state's citizens who bear the cost.  The budget problem is far bigger than these bills can or should address.

The only proper and fair fix is to address the fact that revenue is down.  One million jobs are gone that could take decades to recover.  The state's economy is no longer based on manufacturing.  And the value of real property has dropped.  Transactions in the service sector now represent a greater part of our economy than sales of goods.

It is financially sensible and imperative to extend the sales tax to services - ALL services - and reduce the percentage, as the Governor has proposed.  This is a long-term solution that is fair and will allow the state to better weather more financial difficulty ahead.  When the economy recovers, it might even be possible to further reduce the sales/service tax rate.

mmilka:

...

It is financially sensible and imperative to extend the sales tax to services - ALL services - and reduce the percentage, as the Governor has proposed.  This is a long-term solution that is fair and will allow the state to better weather more financial difficulty ahead.  When the economy recovers, it might even be possible to further reduce the sales/service tax rate.

I agree with much or m ost of what you wrote above.  But I disagree with your pitch to extend the sales tax to services.

Sales (and similar) excise taxes are inherently regressive.  That is, they have disproportionately greater impact on those least able to "afford" paying them.  One can reasonably argue, and should argue that such taxes are inequitable or unfair. 

Equal tax rates such as those imposed in sales taxes are not "fair" in the way they distribute the burden of payment.  A far more equitable and fair way to increase State general fund revenue would be a steeply graduated income tax, which places a heavier burden on those whose more generous incomes leave them better positioned to afford it, and thus will suffer less from the imposition.

FreeSpeaker:

Equal tax rates such as those imposed in sales taxes are not "fair" in the way they distribute the burden of payment.

You have put your finger on the myth in the sales tax as a "fair" tax. It is the most unfair tax imaginable. I also support your suggestion of an increase in the graduated state income tax as a much more equitable means of increasing state revenue, and support the previous posters assertion that the budget can not be balanced on the backs of school employees. Providing a good education to our children is essential to rebuilding our economy.

I agree with what you're saying.  It just astounds me that representatives like Kuiper can support such bills.  These bills are aimed at public school employees with no regard.  We are mearly pawns to be used to help 'fix this mess'.  To ask public employees to take a 9% pay cut essentially to help make up the deficit... I will be out of my house before the year is up.  You are TELLING ME that I have to 'suck it up' and accept an over $7,000. a year pay cut, what 'for the team?'... 

I will literally loose my house.  I won't be able to make the bills.  I currently live in a single income household of 5.  My spouse is NOT receiving unemplyoment- or any of the number of extentions given these days.  He is a self employed business man trying to make a go in this economy in a state that taxes the heck out of the small business professional.  He is working to make the bills of his business with NO income coming into the house. 

The security of my household, my sole income, is now being jepordized because some representatives in the senate want their name on a piece of paper that will 'solve the problems of MI'. 

I ask you, how are YOU senator Kuiper and fellow senators of Michigan helping? Where are your wages/ benefits being cut?  Sure you put in your time of 'paid service' not unlike me. However, YOU serve your 6 years and lol and behold... you get your medical benefits and pension.... hummmm

I'm deeply troubled with the direction MI is going.  The slap in the face from Govenor G is terribly upsetting to me.

ON FOX 2 weeks ago, 'MI doesn't have industry to sell anymore... we have education.  Our educators are the best and people WANT to move to MI b/c we have some of the best schools...'

This is how educators in MI are treated.  WE are professionals and we put forth our best to put MI on the map for education, yet we are the first to be targeted!!!!!!!!!
Enough said... I'm boiling mad and should go.

I think the original thought that if we could offer a nice retirement incentive for teachers, it would save the districts / state money and we could help the unemployment rate by hiring unemployed teachers was a great idea! However, the package that is sb1227 is not a nice incentive - it's a THREAT. If you don't leave now... you will pay! There is no nice part to it. There is no financial incentive or bonus. It's more of a "look what we are going to do if you don't go." And to top it off, everyone else will be punished as part of their incentive.

I too, am a teacher that will lose my house this year. My husband owned a glass company that had to close the doors due to the economy in Michigan. In the final 2 years of his company, we did everything we could financially to keep his 7 employees receiving paychecks every week, including refinancing our mortgage and taking out a second mortgage. He had to pay his bills, but the contractors would not pay his company. Due to the fact that he couldn't pay himself for the last 2 years, he is not eligible to collect any unemployment benefits. Now I owe $200,000+ mortgage on a house that is now worth about $110,000 (if I'm lucky), again due to the economy. 

Our district has been in deficit for years. Our teachers have been on a pay freeze for 4 years as well as a step freeze in an attempt to make our district stay above water. We have had our insurance copays increase for office visits and prescriptions. On the same note.... cost of living has increased significantly: utilities, grocery bills, gas, interest rates, etc. The cuts and freezes we have made are approximately 10% of my contract. Now, we are going to be told we have to make more cuts. We have been cutting for years!

Believe me, I understand that times are tough and that people have to give, but I also feel that we HAVE been giving. The state continues to cut programs from schools so our children are receiving less and less support. The state even approved for our district to take money targeted for our At-Risk students and use it to pay utilities!!! When our kids come to us and their parents can not afford supplies for school, teachers make sure they have what they need. I spend hundreds of dollars a year for my classroom and students every year.

I feel that offering teachers a "buy-out" as an incentive was a good idea. It would help persuade teachers to go that were thinking about it anyway. What the state is doing is SCARING our teachers into making decisions out of fear. JENNIFER GRANHOLM should be ashamed of herself. During her election, she repeatedly discussed the importance of education. I'm sorry to say that I voted for her. She has lost my respect based on the MANY decisions she has made that have had severe NEGATIVE impacts on education. I understand that Michigan is in a financial crisis right now, but if we don't educate our students now, how will we have strong leaders in the future???

 It is too bad that we have fallen on economic times but we should have all seen it coming. Spending money we did not have for services  that we could not afford.  Teachers for the most part are very dedicated but everyone needs to face the harsh reality that we are broke. The spending must stop NOW! and everyone must be a part of the pain. You are not being singled out you are being brought into the problem that the unions have helped to create.....As a past board members who sat in many negotiations I tried to tell the stewards then as I am telling you now....in the real world people are not getting all the perks you are on the backs of the citizens. If you were not satisfied with your wages you should have gone somewhere else to work. You followed the car industry model and here we are......you are not being singled out you are being brought into the problem that you yourselves help to create. Welcome aboard.

 I can barely believe that I have been a teacher for 30 years and this is how I am being forced to retire.   How degrading!!  I feel that I have one of the most important jobs in the world next to a doctor.  He heals the body and I help to improve the mind and set values in childrens lives. Yet you would think that the way I am being treated that I had a job that was meaningless.  I know times are tough and I know people are losing their jobs left and right, but to put your children on the line,the future of American, by making cuts in the teaching profession, taking so much away from the teachers that are dedicated to the cause, and forcing good teachers out of their jobs, is just unbelievable. Children deserve the best of the best but that senario seems to be going by the wayside.  With all that is being taken away who would care to become a teacher and I could see many present teachers looking into other professions.

Teaching over the years has become very difficult.  Many children just don't care about school. It's not a priority in their families.  As soon as they get home from school they sit in front of a television, play video games, text 24/7, sit in front of a computer and with all of this they never have to have contact or interaction with anyone.  This has all lead to a teacher having to be more innovative and come up with more creative ideas to keep the children's attention.  I would welcome any person out there who thinks I have an easy job to come into my classroom of 25 children and take over my class for a day or two.  Then I'd like that person to give me their true feelings from that experience, of how easy a  teachers job really is..  Talk is cheap but until you've experienced what I have to experience every day, everyone needs to stop bashing the teachers and start respecting them and what they stand for.  It's too bad that education is not valued like it was long ago when families put education first. .  Making all the cuts now and in the future are only going to drive the good teachers away. In the future you will find that you won't be having people entering the profession. 

I deserve all the vacations and benefits that I get.  I work very hard for them. I don't get any bonus' or perks  like many other people get in their jobs, I even spend a lot of my own money to help the children in my classroom learn.  What ia most important about my job, is that I form the future of America into being educated, respectable and responsible human beings.  I think that teaching is one of the most important jobs out there.  I sure wish that our government as well as the public would see it that way and show teachers the appreciation that they well deserve. After all without a teacher, no one would be where they are today.  I don't think you can say that about too many professions!

 First, regarding the statement "I have one of the most important jobs in the world", PARENTS have the most important job in the world. In my opinion, that's why the children now are educationally challenged. Parents need to step up to the plate and start parenting, instead of looking for the next fad to be the best friend of their children.  As a mother of six (16 to 34 years old) I've seen  and heard it all.  You can't blame our children's lack of interest in school on their after school activities, but you can blame their after school activities on the parents.  I agree that we DO have a lot of very good teachers out there...my best friend is one of them.  Tthere are also a lot of teachers who should not be teachers, but because of 'tenure' and the unions they continue to teach (for a lack of better words).  Yes, I agree with another statement that it's the teacher's fault for the position they're in now because they've gone along with the unions up to this point.

I feel for everyone who's lost their job or continues to struggle keeping their job.  I too lost my engineering job a couple of years ago and work for less than half the pay is used to earn (with no benefits), just to keep my house.  Which, by the way, is worth less than what I owe because of property de-valuing, and my mortgage balloon due in less than a year.  But, I'm not going to run to my neighbors, friends, and family and ask for a bail-out which is precisely what our government wants us to do.  My son-in-law drives 1,100 miles round trip every 2 weeks to see his family after losing his job over a year ago and will continue to do this until they're able to sell their house so the family can move with him.  We all are affected by the economy in one way or another.

We need to sit back and evaluate the entire educational system, especially the union involvement. There are programs already proven to work (ie: voucher, etc.) that help to separate the 'good' from the 'bad'.  Personal responsibility and integrity must be taught to our children first at home, and then expected from the people we hire to teach our children while they're in their care, all the way to the people we elect to represent us in the political arena.  I once asked my oldest children (high school age) what the word integrity meant...they couldn't answer me so I had them do a 2-page research paper and hand it in to ME.

OUR LEGISLATURE NEEDS TO VOTE YES IN GIVING THOSE MICHIGAN TEACHERS A SMALL INCENTIVE TO RETIRE WHO ARE ELIGIBLE AND ABLE, TO RETIRE!  (1.5% TO 1.6%)

MANY, MANY SCHOOLS ARE CLOSING, AND MANY, MANY EDUCATORS ARE BEING LAID-OFF!  (THERE HAS BEEN OVER 2000 TEACHERS IN DETROIT PUBLIC SCHOOLS PINK SLIP THIS WEEK!!)

WOULD OUR STATE OF MICHIGAN RATHER HAVE OUR STATE PAY UNEMPLOYMENT COMPENSATION FOR ALL THOSE LAID-OFF?

ALSO, OUR NEW COLLEGE GRADUATES, AND CHILDREN, ARE LEAVING THE STATE THAT THEY RESIDE IN TO LOOK FOR OPEN TEACHING POSITIONS!

IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT FOR MICHIGAN????

THIS SMALL INCENTIVE WOULD ALLOW THOSE TEACHERS A CHANCE, AND OPPORTUNITY, TO RETIRE!

PLEASE SUPPORT AND VOTE YES FOR THIS TEACHER RETIREMENT INCENTIVE! THEY CERTAINLY DESERVE IT!!

momof6:

I feel for everyone who's lost their job or continues to struggle keeping their job.  I too lost my engineering job a couple of years ago and work for less than half the pay is used to earn (with no benefits), just to keep my house.  Which, by the way, is worth less than what I owe because of property de-valuing, and my mortgage balloon due in less than a year.  But, I'm not going to run to my neighbors, friends, and family and ask for a bail-out which is precisely what our government wants us to do.  My son-in-law drives 1,100 miles round trip every 2 weeks to see his family after losing his job over a year ago and will continue to do this until they're able to sell their house so the family can move with him.  We all are affected by the economy in one way or another.

Just so we understand your spiel: You are saying that because you lost a job that paid well, and now have to get by on reduced income, and so pay less in taxes, somebody else should take a similar hit just because they work in the public sector.  In this case, you demand high quality education services out of one side of your mouth yet want to renege on paying for them out the other.  That is just plain being unreasonable (and I am being nice with that characterization).

We need to sit back and evaluate the entire educational system, especially the union involvement. There are programs already proven to work (ie: voucher, etc.) that help to separate the 'good' from the 'bad'.  Personal responsibility and integrity must be taught to our children first at home, and then expected from the people we hire to teach our children while they're in their care, all the way to the people we elect to represent us in the political arena.  I once asked my oldest children (high school age) what the word integrity meant...they couldn't answer me so I had them do a 2-page research paper and hand it in to ME.

So, we take it, you really want to do some union busting.

Part of that personal integrity business has to do with how you treat others.  Perhaps you should reflect on what my child was taught by responsible parents:  Just because you are having a tough time doesn't entitle you to ruin anybody else's.  

 AMEN!  AMEN!  I have wondered the same thing about the Sentor's wages/benefits and what THEY are doing to help out Michigan besides target a group of people.  It would be interesting to hear from ANY of the legislative people to see if they would agree to a 9% cut in their page, as well as a drop on their benefits.  AND, make it so they only get their benefits while serving.  Afterward, they are just like you and me - a working stiff.  I can believe in miracles ...

 So, let me get this right ... because the State government spent money they didn't have and no one cared to stop them, it is now up to the teachers of this State to make it right?  Teachers didn't break the bank, the Legislators did ... let's put the blame where it belongs. The teachers didn't bring this problem on themselves, the State legislators did by spending the money that was supposed to go to support the school districts on other things.  What happened to the money from the lottery that was supposed to be dedicated to education throughout the State?  Where does that money go now?   I don't think there is a teacher out there that is not willing to "take the pain".  Is the legislation messing with your pension?  I doubt it.  And, let's blame the unions for this whole mess ... please ...  That union was started to protect teachers.  If, 75 or 100 years ago, people would have paid a fair wage to teachers, there would be no need for a union today.  By the unsympathic tone of your note and the bashing from others, I don't blame them for wanting their union ... seems to me they need the protection from people like you and the legislation. 

One more thing, your statement "in the real world people are not getting all the perks you are on the backs of the citizens" needs to be addressed.  My husband has been a dedicated teacher for 37 years, 12 in a private school, 25 in a public.  Over the last 12-15 years, the teachers of his school district have foregone raises in order to keep their insurance benefits.  Yes, we have nice benefits, but we PAID for them, out of OUR pockets, not yours or anyone else's.   IF they received a small raise, it was never over 1.5%.  That doesn't even keep up with inflation.  So, you are spewing information you think you know because you were a past board member, but you don't live it.  Yes, he could have moved to another job, for more pay, but he LOVES the children and loves teaching and continues to get up every morning and cheerfully goes to work to teach your children, even with all this happening to the teaching field.  I can only shake my head and feel sorry for someone who was connected to the teaching field as a board member who has so much disrespect for its employees.

Audie:

...Over the last 12-15 years, the teachers of his school district have foregone raises in order to keep their insurance benefits.  Yes, we have nice benefits, but we PAID for them, out of OUR pockets, not yours or anyone else's.   IF they received a small raise, it was never over 1.5%... 

Wow, your husband must work in a district with really WEAK union representation.  I retired 5 years ago from a rural northern michigan podunk class D district, and up until about 2003 we always got a 3% raise.  We were the highest paid folks in the district, by far, if we chose to live in the district.   

By the way, the small percentage of their salaries that is payroll-deducted to help pay for their benefits is paltry compared to what the district and the state (local and state taxpayers, thank you very much) paid, so stop your whining.  Besides, if my math is right, your husband is very near 60, so why shouldn't he retire and make room for younger teachers?

FreeSpeaker:

Just so we understand your spiel: You are saying that because you lost a job that paid well, and now have to get by on reduced income, and so pay less in taxes, somebody else should take a similar hit just because they work in the public sector.  In this case, you demand high quality education services out of one side of your mouth yet want to renege on paying for them out the other.  That is just plain being unreasonable (and I am being nice with that characterization).

No, that is NOT what I'm saying. Let me try to clarify: We are ALL involved in this mess that our elected officials, unions, lobbyists, etc. have gotten us into, and we are ALL paying for it, including our children. What I'm saying is that teachers, public employees, elected officials, unions should NOT be placed on a pedestal, unaffected by what's going on. The unions have their place and need to be put back into that place!  Here's a simple analogy that even a child can understand - Tyler and Tommy offer to mow the neighbor's lawn for $10. But a few minutes after starting the lawn Tommy is tired (lazy) and decides to sit under a shade tree while Tyler finishes the job. The boys ask for their money when the job is done and Tyler  tells Tommy he should get more because he did more work. But, Tommy said no because that's not what they agreed on. The neighbor speaks up and tells Tyler he should be ashamed...after all, nobody told him to work harder, he just did it. THIS is my point - our better teachers should be paid for their better teaching!  And, by the way, my children attended private school (which I PAID for, even after I lost my job) and my oldest daughter homeschools my grandchildren...all while continuing to pay our taxes, a percentage of which pays for our public school system.

We need to sit back and evaluate the entire educational system, especially the union involvement. There are programs already proven to work (ie: voucher, etc.) that help to separate the 'good' from the 'bad'.  Personal responsibility and integrity must be taught to our children first at home, and then expected from the people we hire to teach our children while they're in their care, all the way to the people we elect to represent us in the political arena.  I once asked my oldest children (high school age) what the word integrity meant...they couldn't answer me so I had them do a 2-page research paper and hand it in to ME.

So, we take it, you really want to do some union busting.

Part of that personal integrity business has to do with how you treat others.  Perhaps you should reflect on what my child was taught by responsible parents:  Just because you are having a tough time doesn't entitle you to ruin anybody else's.  

In response to your above statement: My family, friends, and co-workers consider me one of the most up-beat and positive people they know. I am not attacking you personally because I don't know you personally.  I am commenting on 'the system', in general.

momof6:

No, that is NOT what I'm saying. Let me try to clarify: We are ALL involved in this mess that our elected officials, unions, lobbyists, etc. have gotten us into, and we are ALL paying for it, including our children. What I'm saying is that teachers, public employees, elected officials, unions should NOT be placed on a pedestal, unaffected by what's going on.

What makes you think that teachers and other public employees are unaffected by what is going on in our society and with our economy?

Michigan's civil service employment shrunk by more than 18% from 2001-08.  That means 18% of civil service jobs were eliminated in that period.  Employees have been furloughed.  State support for public schools -- now the primary source of local school revenues -- has been reduced, meaning that school staff, including teachers face the realities of shrinking employment opportunities, frozen wages, boosted contributions to their benefit plans, etc..  Meanwhile, these folks have routine bills to pay, mortgages to pay off, kids to support, taxes to pay, etc..

In short, public employees are just like everybody else, and face the same kinds of life problems as everybody else.

So now, because you are unhappy with your own situation you want to make the situation for public employees worse.  Sorry, but that just doesn't pass the smell test. 

The unions have their place and need to be put back into that place!

That statement makes it very clear your real agenda is to bust the unions and whack at their their members.  School employees seem to be a particular target.

Here's a simple analogy that even a child can understand - Tyler and Tommy offer to mow the neighbor's lawn for $10. But a few minutes after starting the lawn Tommy is tired (lazy) and decides to sit under a shade tree while Tyler finishes the job. The boys ask for their money when the job is done and Tyler  tells Tommy he should get more because he did more work. But, Tommy said no because that's not what they agreed on. The neighbor speaks up and tells Tyler he should be ashamed...after all, nobody told him to work harder, he just did it. THIS is my point - our better teachers should be paid for their better teaching! 

Tyler and Tommy may have some issues between one another here, and perhaps should settle them.  How that $10 gets divvied up between Tyler and Tommy and their banker is their business.  It is none of the neighbor's business.  The neighbor did, after all, get his lawn mowed, regardless of who did it.  He owes the agreed upon $10 for the job, and should pay it.   That is what the job is worth.   In short, your analogy is juvenile and inappropriate.

And, by the way, my children attended private school (which I PAID for, even after I lost my job) and my oldest daughter homeschools my grandchildren...all while continuing to pay our taxes, a percentage of which pays for our public school system.

Reading your posts here, I take it that you have run up against some bad luck, losing a decent job in a declining economy.  Presumably this was through no fault of your own.  If that is the case, you have lots of company.  You also have lots of company in paying taxes, including me.  Much of the rest of your problem, though, -- mortgage debt, private school tuitions -- seems to result from your own choices.  It is self-inflicted. 

None of this is a personal attack.  It merely is an accurate and reasonable reading of what you have posted.  You have in no way made a  case for busting up the public employee unions and imposing further payroll cuts or other economic penalties on individual public employees.

Can anyone tell me the differences between the House version of the bill and the Senate version?

Also, why do the two different analyses given on the Michigan Legislature website give such different 10-year estimated fiscal impacts?  For example, the Senate version says increasing the multiplier to 1.7% will cost $380 million a year, while the House version says it will cost $500.5 million a year.

Phil4:

Can anyone tell me the differences between the House version of the bill and the Senate version?

 

It looks to me like the House wants to provide a more generous package (to employees) than does the Senate.

My own position on this is that I think it is a poor idea, either way.  There may be some short term savings, but in the longer term it most likely will wind up with no real savings at all, and may increase costs.  Let teacher retirement attrition occur at its natural rate, and ensure that all teachers do receive in retirement fully what they spent their careers earning.

After reading the two versions of the bill, it looks to me that the Senate version wants to convince experienced teachers, who have worked their way up the pay scale, to leave by punishing them if they choose to stay on the job....... Increasing their contribution to the retirement system and taking away their insurance once they retire.   

The House bill wants to lure these teachers away from their secure jobs by offering them a carrot to get them to leave by way of changing the formula that their retirement income is calculated that results in an increase in their retirement.

In light of the economy and the scarcity of jobs, these teachers will not leave without some kind of incentive. Many love their jobs, not the politics, but they love our kids.   It doesn't seem morally right to propose to clobber them if they stay or hurt them when they do retire as they are the people who have cared for and taught us and our children.  I believe making them an offer they cannot refuse will serve all of Michigan by reducing the budget in the fall with reduced payroll costs because we could hire new teachers that would start at the bottom of the pay scale.  

I also believe that we owe these teachers, that will be newly hired, our respect and competitive benefits that will keep these teachers in Michigan to create a large knowledge base of experienced teachers that will continue to educate our population.

Does anyone know when we will know if this plan is going to go into action or not?  June, July, August?

 As with most bills that have good intentions, this one now contains several provisions that tainted it's intent. Clearly the state needs savings and contracting certain positions allows districts to save money and in many instances keep current employees in place and minimize changes to the students. A provision within SB 1227 however takes away the incentives and savings for districts to use contract staff because it mandates the districts make retirement contributions to the state retirement plan based on each contract workers earnings - even though the employees they are paying the contributions for are not state employees.  That is similar to paying union dues on non-union employees.  When special interest groups are allowed to pressure our elected officials to piggy back onto bills provisions that are take aways from the bills original intent, the only winner is the special interest group. We need solutions to the overall problem along with dynamic leadership to take place to resist the special interest groups. Let's implement Dynamic Solutions to solve the real problems, that will benefit the districts AND the students - not the special interest groups.

MICHIGAN TEACHER RETIREMENT

OUR LEGISLATURE NEEDS TO VOTE YES IN GIVING THOSE MICHIGAN TEACHERS A SMALL INCENTIVE TO RETIRE WHO ARE ELIGIBLE AND ABLE, TO RETIRE! ALSO, FOR THOSE EDUCATORS WHO HAVE YEARS OF SERVICE AND AGE THAT EQUALS 80 WOULD NOT ONLY BE ELIGIBLE TO RETIRE (BEING PROPOSED)...WOULD RETIRE!!!

MANY, MANY SCHOOLS ARE CLOSING, AND MANY, MANY EDUCATORS ARE BEING LAID-OFF! (THERE HAS BEEN OVER 2000 TEACHERS IN DETROIT PUBLIC SCHOOLS PINK SLIP THIS WEEK!!)

WOULD OUR STATE OF MICHIGAN RATHER HAVE OUR STATE PAY UNEMPLOYMENT COMPENSATION FOR ALL THOSE LAID-OFF?

ALSO, OUR NEW COLLEGE GRADUATES, AND CHILDREN, ARE LEAVING THE STATE THAT THEY RESIDE IN TO LOOK FOR OPEN TEACHING POSITIONS!

IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT FOR MICHIGAN????

THIS SMALL INCENTIVE WOULD ALLOW THOSE TEACHERS A CHANCE, AND OPPORTUNITY, TO RETIRE!

PLEASE SUPPORT AND VOTE YES FOR THIS TEACHER RETIREMENT INCENTIVE! THEY CERTAINLY DESERVE IT!!

UNDER THE HOUSE VERSION......THEIR PROPOSAL SAVES A NET SAVINGS OVER A DECADE OF $734 MILLION DOLLARS!!!

THIS IS A WIN-WIN SITUATION FOR EVERYONE!!!!!

 Everyone keeps talking about the teachers although they are a large group of people, what about all the others that contribute to the retirement, custodians, bus drivers, bus aides, secretaries and maintenance people, we are watching this very close too, we have worked long and hard at the jobs we do, only to get privatized before we can retire. So if this goes through alot of us will take it,  if we qualify just so we dont lose the small pension that we have worked hard for, I have 29 years in the system and work for a district looking at privatizing, I am not old enough to retire under the system now. If it saves the districts and the state money and saves my retirement it sounds like a win win bill

 Is there a reason the republican and democrates are seeing this proposal completely different?  Our lawmakers in Lansing (and Washington for that matter) need to come together with dynamic solutions that will address the core problems with each proposed piece of legislation. 

For the sake of the state economy, for the sake of the students and for the immediate relief that schools need to solve their financial crisis, they need to cease plugging in special interest elements to proposed laws and do the right thing. Then break from partisan lines and vote on the legislation itself - not based on what the rest of their party is doing.   

 The public has no idea what educators and school employees go through...everyone paints a rosey picture of teachers with huge incomes only working 182 days a year...no one mentions the 4 - 5 years they go to college and the life long credits they need to keep their degree or the summer classes and workshops or the evenings checking hundreds of papers turned in by their students...there is no mention of the money they have taken out of their paychecks to have the good health coverage they have...no mention of the cold temperatures in their classroom because the school districts shut off the heat come April because they can't afford the fuel...no mention of the classroom with every other light buld taken out to save on electricity...no mention of the "unappreciation" by the administration and school boards they work for because once they gain years of experience, they are considered too costly and everyone wants to get rid of them!  When they do get a raise, it isn't given with a smile because they do a fantastic job...is is given because they have to fight for it tooth and nail through a union...if there wasn't a union there, there would be no job security at all and they would be out the door the minute they got too expensive.  Teachers in our district start off making $26,000 a year...how many positions do you know of that start that low after a four year degree?  Most construction jobs start off almost double that with no degree...and when they aren't working in the winter months they get unemployment benefits...school employees are not allowed unemployment benefits in the summer months...they are paid a salary...so stop the complaining about how little they work for the yearly income!!  I would LOVE to see people walk in a teacher's shoes for just a week...especially our senators and representative.  You have no idea what is is like to try to educate todays child with the lack of family support in education.  Go ahead and pass this bill...many will retire because they are tired...tired of being overworked and underpaid!

I think that this bill needs to be passed in its original form. Otherwise, with the system of each school district having separate union contracts, the only ones who will suffer from funding cutbacks are our kids.  State intervention, such as this bill, is a necessary evil.

It is simply unconscionable that the children of our state should pay the ultimate price for our legislature's inability to provide schools with adequate and sustainable funding.  Our kids should not have every single art, music, athletic opportunity eliminated.  Our kids should not have their once-in-a-lifetime opportunitues to learn and explore decimated.

Attention legislators... if you think you will have problems with the MEA being angry if you "pass" this unpopular legislation, I have some news for you:  You ain't seen nothing like a mob of Facebook charged angry parents!

In fact, I don't blame the MEA or teachers for the current fiscal predicament- they are not the ones passing the laws and deciding these matters.  So, while I don't agree with their stance, clearly they are not responsible.

This fault of this situation lies entirely in the hands of our legislators.  And they will be held accountable.

 To all of our ELECTED representatives:

For whom do you "work"?  Is it your party?  Your district's own special needs?  The "Committee to Re-elect" you?  Perhaps your arrogance has made you forget that your real job is to make the great state of Michigan the best it can be!  Perhaps you have forgotten the meaning of "deadline"  and how it is YOUR responsibility to meet deadlines so that private citizens can create viable school operational budgets.

By delaying, debating, and obfuscating the budgetary issues that confront public education and pointing fingers at your opposing party, you alone are responsible for the current situation.  

Why not set a good example?   Your current salary (without the hiring requirement of owning a 4 year degree) is definitely higher than the pay of most teachers who have 6 year degrees.  You currently are grandfathered in to receive lifetime health care.  You "receive" pay increases because you chose to not vote against them.  Many of you could probably not pass the state-mandated high school tests or score as high as many teachers did  on the ACT or SAT in order to attend top universities. 

How about letting teaches and/or administrators determine YOUR operating budget so we can show you how to get things done much more efficiently? 

Or--how about you doing what you are so handsomely paid to do:  find a way to solve a state budgetary problem and let students and all citizens get on with some real business--the business of learning!

Excellent post to our ELECTED representatives.  I'm glad to see someone else impatient with the 'delaying, debating and obfuscating' when what should be happening is negotiating and compromising.  Maybe our elected representatives could benefit from some professional development requirements.  I know there are community college classes in this state that teach negotiation, for example. (no degree required; they are open entrance, low tuition, great teachers!)

 I'm a member of MIP system and contributed over $ 140,000.00 to be able to get 3% raises when I retire.Now they want to eliminate that!!! So what did I pay the money for if I will be treated same as BASIC retire that did not contributed any money???!!!

 they need to meet to be able to compromise on the bill why would they cancell a meeting and not work on this important subject,

 A 3% mandatory increase to my retirement to pay for retiree's healthcare?  So I've had my pay frozen, given furlough days, and now you are charging me 3% for someone else's healhcare?  Someone give me a reason to stay working for an industry that is committing premeditated suicide?  Schools don't need more money, they need better administrators and teachers.

Its time to take back our Goverment   cant wait for the election, cause thats when my vote counts so I will say my good byes now to all who voted for this bill . 

a common citizen would get prison time for robbing people blind in the middle of the night.  michigan state government leaders NEED TO GO!  they are incompetent and crooks!  voting in favor of this bill will seal those criminals' fate.  VOTE THEM ALL OUT>   goodbye jenny and take your friends with you.  your a two-faced liar that couldn't be worthy of sitting on any court seat except if you had a defense lawyer.  WORKERS UNITE AND DEMAND A NEW PARTTIME MICHIGAN GOVERNMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!

All local, state and federal employees stick together when it comes to wages and benefits, which are far more then the private sector. They have become leeches and if it does not change soon, we will become another Greece.

Public Schools are the worst of the lot because of the M.E.A. We need to get rid of all unions and start over.

ehill127:

Its time to take back our Goverment 

Take back our government from whom?  The idiots you elected, so you can hand it over to a new batch of idiots you elect?  How constructive ...

 Well DETROIT "HAD" 150 teachers on there payroll...

3500 harleydavid Motorcylce in a warehouse!

kid had no book for six weeks...they where in the warehouse(payed for rent and storage) but couldnot find a "way' to bring them to the schools? And you call "that"smart teachers!

 CUT THE TEACHERS LOOSE..then can have there "OWN" retirement and healths plans.We have the finaincial instituts that are more then happy to take there Money and invest..at the least a OLDFashion "savings acount" will do the trick..And national health insurance for all.....so the teacher wont have to pay for other poeple...plus eating healthy ..go green. plant a garden.etc.walk .will make you "free" from Healthcare(reallySICKCARE).

 WE ARE ALL EQUALL HA HA HA..CHARTERSCHOOLS over 250 in michigan... HOMESCHOOLING  ...teacher like all workers "work to 67 years of age and then you can retire..