Michigan Votes Forum

 Looks like a neat idea! Need more brass? Don't need much anymore. Into "green" shooting. One shot,one kill,save the brass.

I am a staunch supporter of Second Amendment rights, and all others in our national Bill of Rights.  But this kind of stuff is just more political litter on the State Capitol grounds.  Forget it.

The state's budget is in crisis, the unemployment rate is soaring, and Rep. Hammel has the time to author a bill to put a plaque honoring one amendment of our constitution on Capitol grounds. One has to wonder if Rep. Hammel is using his time wisely.

Michigan's pro gun activists have altered the course of political history by exercising their collective opposition to attacks on the second amendment by the federal government and the violation of their Michigan constitutional right to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves and the state.

Law abiding gun owners assembled all across the land exercising their first amendment rights to protect the second amendment. They reacted to the 1994 so-called assault weapons ban, Brady Bill, BATF abuses, WACO, Ruby Ridge, the Oklahoma Disaster and many other issues by organizing political opposition and throwing out many members of Congress including Speaker of the House Tom Foley and ending the Democrat's 40 year stranglehold control of both houses of Congress and the Presidency!

At the state level - all those that rallied in defense of the 2A were also insistent that the state of Michigan honor and respect article 1 section 6 of the Michigan Constitution by either eliminating the county concealed weapons licensing boards and enacting a "Shall Issue" concealed pistol permit. As we all know - Shall Issue Concealed Carry is the law of the land of the state of Michigan.

Michigan's pro gun activists, pro-gun organizations, legislative leaders and public officials have literally contributed their blood, sweat tears and yes, their brass cartridges into the creation of this plaque of liberty under the umbrella of the Brass Root's organization. The state should recognize this fact and place the plaque in a prominent position on the grounds of the state capitol building as a tribute to our constitutions, our leaders and the people!

In Liberty, Michael P. Sessa

Founder, Gun Owners of MAcomb County (GOMAC) and core member BrassRoots, The NRA etc.

This is plaque will cost the taxpayers of Michigan nothing. It was built by private donations, and private donations will pick up the cost of placing it. All Brass Roots needs, is legislative approval.

MikeSessa:

ending the Democrat's 40 year stranglehold control of both houses of Congress and the Presidency!

What does partisan politics have to do with this issue? Republicans are not the only citizens that respect our constitution, including the second amendment. This is precisely the reason this plaque has no business on the capitol grounds.

In case you haven't noticed, Democrats have regained control of both the Senate and House, and the Presidency.

Normal Partisan politics? Perhaps you'd like to make it that to support your position but you've missed the point. Those congressman that voted to ban semi-automatic firearms i.e. so-called assault weapons were kicked out of office for that action. They were largely Clinton's Democrat Congressman. This is historical fact. Clinton acknowledged that his gun ban caused the balance of power to shift to the Republicans ending the 40 year long reign of Democrat control of both houses of Congress.

And, in case you haven't noticed, the issues we face today are essentially the same as those we faced back in 1994, an INSTANT REPLAY. Back then it was Hillarycare, today it's Obamacare. Then it was Clinton's Crime Bill i.e. so-called Assault Weapons Ban and today it's Obama's campaign position to re-enact the ban. If that happens it will again divide and alienate a nation and could result in another INSTANT REPLAY of 1994 flipping power back to the opposite party.

You've justified my position when you said: "Republicans are not the only citizens that respect our constitution, including the second amendment." This is precisely the reason this plaque should be placed on the capitol grounds! IT WAS THE PEOPLE that came forward on the grounds of the capitol in mass to say "no more - never again will you dare to usurp our right to keep and bear arms" and they brought brass cartridges from every gun they would never give up in order to melt down and enshrine those amendments as a historical reminder to our state and federal governments - hands off our right to keep and bear arms!

The plaque should serve as a monument to the people's high regard, honor and respect for the right to keep and bear arms. It's prominence on the grounds of the capitol will focus that importance each and every time it is viewed but especially by those we send to represent us.

In Liberty, Michael P. Sessa

The only dividing and alienating is the far right from common sense. It is clear the gun rights lobby is a tool of the Republican party. Your bringing up "Hillarycare" and "Obamacare" in a discussion about a second amendment plaque exposes your true goals.

Health care in this nation is shameful, and most people understand we must improve it. Our right to own and bear arms has hardly protected us from unscrupulous insurance companies, not to mention the economic devastation wrought by unscrupulous bankers and the greed of Wall Street.

Most people are smart enough to know when they are being used, and that is why we now have a Democratic controlled government again. That is also why the Republican party is trying to paint Obama and the Democrats as anti second amendment. They need a hot button issue to rile the populace, something that will encourage them to vote against their own best interest.

This bill is nothing more than a waste of time and effort, an attempt to create controversy.

Gypsy - I don't know how old you are - pretty young I assume and you certainly have no idea as to what the early 90's was like from a gun owners perspective. You are not comprehending my message. The issues we were facing in 1994 are the same as they are today. The only real question that remains is will Obama and the Democrat Party repeat the mistakes of the past and seek to ban guns again? If they do - then we can use the plaque as their symbolic Tombstone for not heeding the lessons of the past. The plaque is that symbolic gesture to keep your hands off our gun rights or we'll throw you out of power - regardless of party!

The Brass Roots 2A plaque is the reminder to our elected representatives from the people to keep your hands off the right to keep and bear arms. They need to see it every day when they walk past it on their way to do the people's business!

The message is the same regardless of party affiliation.

Don't even get me going on the other issues you've mentioned as I am in agreement. I would greatly appreciate it if you would quit using this comment area about the Brass Roots Plaque as your political sounding board. We're here seeking placement of the plaque - period.

In Liberty, Michael P. Sessa

Founder Gun Owners of MAcomb County (GOMAC) NRA, etc.

I am an enthusiastic supporter of the Second Amendment to our U.S. Constitution, and to comparable provisions in state constitutions.  I also am an enthusiastic supporter of all individual human rights, even those not specifically named in the U.S. Constitutions or state constitutions.

This plaque belongs in some gun club's clubhouse, where it would make a nice decoration.  Standing alone on the capitol lawn it would have the character of poilitical litter.

I might endorse the idea of a set of modest plaques on the capitol lawn that together celebrate all our individual rights.  But to single any one right out for special prominence or recognition is tacky and divisive.

Age has little to do with one's credibility in regards to a particular issue, intelligence and insight being much more meaningful; but for those who might seek to associate advanced years with wisdom, I should rate in the higher percentile. I would have been quite wise even in the 90's, using that standard.

We are indeed facing the same issues now as we faced in 1994. That being a need for health care reform. Because we didn't act then, it is more urgent we act now. I will spare repeating the statistics showing how our health care system is negatively affecting our economy. Anyone who has been paying attention to the debate has heard them many times. To attach this needed reform to a second amendment debate is exactly the tactics that have become standard practise for Republicans, and this plaque issue is a good example. This plaque would have no effect whatsoever in regards to keeping our gun rights or losing them. It just stirs controversy, which is it's goal.

Whether one prints in bold type, or capitol letters, or brass plaques, the idea is to intimidate. I'm not intimidated easily. Maybe that comes with age.

If one would like this comment area to only pertain to the aforementioned plaque, one should confine his remarks only to the plaque, rather than to making analogies to the 1994 health care debate and the Democrats loss of Congress.

I would like to associate myself with the remarks of FreeSpeaker. Well said.

A few corrections of fact:

1. HB 5323 was introduced by Rep. Robert Constan (D-Dearborn Heights).
2. It required no time to draft as it is a clone of HB 4962 of 2005 (which passed the House 108-0 but died for lack of action in the Senate.)
3. Installation will be cost-free to taxpayers as the bill specifies that all costs must be borne by the sponsoring organization.
   
4. The plaque to be placed on the capitol grounds was created out of brass donated by app. 10,000 Michiganders who rallied on the East lawn on September 25, 1994 (the second largest capitol grounds rally in state history, surpassing the one held there by Democratic presidential candidate George Wallace, in 1968, and estimated to be only slightly smaller than the one for independent presidential candidate Ross Perot in 1992.)  This rally was sponsored by and featured the Libertarian Party of Michigan candidate for the US Senate, Jon Coon.  Indeed, all the priciple organizers -- of which I was one -- were LP members.  So any debate about which of the old parties should take credit (or blame) is misplaced.
5. This bill does not single out only one amendment for recognition.  It is, as mentioned above, cloned from HB 4962 of 2005.  Thus it includes authorization for a monument to the 1st Amendment -- a provision enthusiatically supported by Libertarians and which brought endorsement by the ACLU.

Tim O'Brien

Small Government Alliance

I now see where some of the confusion has arisen.  The number listing here is incorrect.  The correct bill # is HB 5324.

Tim O'Brien

Small Government Alliance

It appears the Michigan Votes website flipped the two bill numbers.  However, if you go to the Michigan Legislature website an put in HB 5324 you will get the correct bill.

Tim O'Brien

Small Government Alliance