Michigan Votes Forum

Wait a minute... how is this college education "free" if taxpayers have to PAY for it???  While education is certainly important, our ELEMENTARY schools are suffering!  Plus, there are grants, student loans, scholarships and all sorts of other options for college financing.  How about we FOCUS on the basics first?

 Exactly what does this mean?  "and money credited from individuals' state income tax refunds, as provided by law, shall be dedicated to this fund."

What constitutes volunteer work and community service? Who will assure these requirements are met? Will a signature by a "reverend" be enough. Will Work for a political party, ACORN etc. qualify?

Are there no requirements for maintaining a minimum grade average before funds will be paid or will thecommunity colleges just become hangouts for freebies who will add nothing but disruption and adversley effect those who are really trying to get an education? What courses will be eligible for funding? Would we be paying for courses to teach the students how to masturbate etc as some of the wacky liberal colleges are now doing?

I suspect this resolution is a sop to the teachers unions as it will provide more jobs as the enrollment increases. I imagine many students will respect this "free" education as much as they respect other "entitlements". I can also predict new taxes to add onto the comm. colleges, hire more "teachers" , to pay for the additionalteachers benefits and retirements, and of course, huge salary increases for the CC president and the staff.

 It is no wonder why the state is in trouble with this type of thinking....We can pay for the higher education and then since there is no employment here, those we educate can leave and work somewhere else....fix the economy and the education won't be a problem...!

Incredible, absolutely incredible.....  What planet is this guy living on?

 Of course this bill has no chance of passing but it is an indication of the type of people we have representing us in Lansing.  One may say "but, wouldn't it be wonderful if everyone had a college education?" and at some level it would be.  However, this system would diminish the value of that education to a point where it would become four more years of government indoctrination.  I think the most frightening feature of this bill is the forced service for one year and an the incarceration in the state of Michigan for four years.  This amounts to indentured servitude to the socialist state.

"It only stands to reason that where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there's service, there is someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master. "
Ayn Rand

These over-educated liberal dems apparently never took an economics course! But then, the website whatwilltheylearn dot com shows that, to obtain a liberal arts degree at either U of M or MSU,  no courses in economics or US History/American Govt are required. U of M doesnt even require a mathematics course of any kind! Incidentally, neither require a literature course either. I wonder where these bozos went to school?? Since the educational cartel is now controlled by 'social justice/share the wealth' folks with no understanding of how the real world works, they want to spread even more of the taxpayer's so-called wealth to send everyone to the State-sponsored halls of indoctrination . . where they will get the same lopsided, useless education these representatives apparently got. Go ahead - put this on the ballot! Make my day! If these reps ever pulled their heads out of the NEA's nether regions, they might at least be able to understand that the taxpayers see through all of these attempts to funnel the entire GDP into education. I have a so-called 'community college' here that is now building dormatories so that the kiddies wont have to drive 15 miles home every night and be out from under the watchful eye of Big Education! What's wrong with this picture?? With this kind of 'leadership', Michigan is doomed!

 Anyone in the house or senate would have to be insane to pass this legislation when the state is in such an economic downward spiral.  Public education is not being fully funded nor is special education.  Even if this did make it to a ballot, the people of Michigan do not support new taxes on anything.

 OK, it's verifiably true! Democrats have no ties to reality AT ALL. WE cannot afford another tax. This state is sinking into the Great Lakes and this irresponsible idiot wants to raise taxes.

 I find it incredible that there has been a mis-labeling of my proposed legislation on your website.  In an effort to set the record straight regarding this matter, I submit the following statement of explaination of the resolution.  The intent of this legislation is to create and establish a fund that will allow free college tuition payments for any graduating Michigan high school student who has lived in the state for five consecutive years prior to graduation and who has at least a 2.5 GPA (the average student) and who seeks to attend a Michigan public, private or vocational training college or institution of higher learning.

A careful reading of HJR BB indicates one of its more interesting qualities: it does NOT request or require any taxpayer dollars to support the tuition package. The proposed constitutional amendment does the following:

1.     It creates a fund called the 'Michigan College Tuition Fund' (MCTF) that will contain all dollars collected for tuition payments.  The fund has to be constitutionally created in order to achieve its purpose of protecting the fund from encroachment by the executive and legislative branches.  The MCTF will be administered by the Michigan Department of Treasury working with the Michigan Department of Education.  This fund will NOT interfere with any existing tuition programs.

2.     It establishes a funding mechanism for the MCTF in the following four ways:  First, one percent of all operating Michigan casino receipts will be dedicated to the fund; second, a minimum of three Super Lotto games would be created strictly for the MCTF all funds minus lottery expenses would be paid into the fund; third, the philothropic and corporate communities will be solicited for contributions to the fund and fourth, an income tax refund checkoff will be available for voluntary taxpayer contributions to the fund.

 3.     It establishes a required student payback-reachback program of one year after college graduation by the recipient of the scholarship going back to the high school of graduation, selecting a student who is underachieving, providing mentoring to that student so that he or she can academically qualify for the scholarship. Failure to participate in the reachback aspect of this program carries a penalty of total repayment to the fund of all paid tuition.

4.     Enabling legislation will follow that will codify these concepts into statue law.

It is my goal to have bi-partisan support for the HJR and its accompanying enabling legislation.  It is extimated that this fund will need to raise between $1.7 and 2 billion. We estimate that the MCTF would pay tuition for approximately 20,000 students who would graduate from Michigan high schools annually.

My bill differs sharply from the proposed legislation of Reps. Alma Wheeler Smith and Rebecca Warren in that their bill requires an increase in taxation in order to provide the scholarship. The major goal of my legislation is to NOT TAX Michigan residents while uplifting the level of education for the general populus of our state.

I hope that this information is helpful in distinguishing my proposal from the other bill.  Additionally, I look forward to the Michigan Center's participation and comment on the specific aspects of the legislation I have presented here.

Rep. Fred Durhal, Jr. - 6th District

 Andrea:

Please read my explaination of the resolution and its intent.  You may find that I am not the idiot that you called me.  Also, for the record, please note that I am a member of the Appropriations Committee of the House of Representatives where we are trying to effectively deal with the budget crisis this state is currently in. My proposal is an out of the box solution to one of our largest expenses in government -- higher education.

 artatheart:

No taxes are required for my legislation.  Please read my response to the inaccurate posting that was done by the Michigan Center.  I also recommend that If you have questions about this bill, please read it first (reading is fundamental) and contact me.  I am trying to make sure that every Michigan high school graduate raises the level of their education so that they might be qualified for the new technology that is beginning to come to our state.  Your constructive comments are welcome.

Rep. Fred Durhal, Jr. - 6th District - Detroit

 Hey Stu:

Thanks for posting your comments about my bill.  I would like for you to read my description of the concepts of the bill.  Taxpayers will NOT have to pay for the Michigan College Tuition Fund (MCTF).  The funding will be raised by the casinos, lottery, contributions from the philothropic and corporate communities, and by voluntary contributions from citizens through their income tax refunds.  I think that once you look at my bill in detail, you will support it.

To specifically address your concern about early education, I plan to introduce a bill shortly that will require mandatory pre-school, all day kindergarten, and re-vamp the curricula for grades K - 4 so that our students will get the best rounded education in the world.  I am sure that you will support some of these concepts and I look forward to your active participation and suggestions during testimony on these measures that I am calling the Michigan Early Education Act. 

At some point, I think that we should be concerned with the 'middle' aspects of educating our youth.  Early Education is one bookend and Higher Education is another.  I want to know how you think we can enhance the educational experiences of our children in grades 5 - 10.  You may contact me on my website at housedems.com

Thanks again for your comments.

Rep. Fred Durhal, Jr. - 6th District - Detroit

 Changeagent:

I read with interest your comments to my bill which has been misrepresented as a new tax for education bill.  It is NOT that.  My bill does not require any taxpayer dollars. It is independently funded in four different ways.  Please refer to my explanation of the bill posted in this response.  Yes, there is a requirement that a person who receives the scholarship must give one year of public service by going back to the high school of graduation, selecting a non-performing academic student for mentoring in an effort to raise the student's grades up to the 2.5 GPA required for the scholarship.  It does not require forced service but it does penalize a person for not participating by requiring payback of all paid tuition funds.  I think this is a good way to promote educating our populus. Reaching back and pulling another forward is a good thing to do --- even for the socialist state.  It really would be wonderful if everyone had a college education in Michigan. Perhaps, you can find it in your heart to assist me in uplifiting our state.

Rep. Fred Durhal, Jr. - 6th District - Detroit

 Dktubbs:

Last time I checked, both you and I were on planet earth.  We also live in a state where education is our most important commodity and hope for changing the economics of this state.  It is unfortunate that my bill was labeled in the manner it was (Raise income tax to provide free college).  My bill does NOT require any tax support. My bill is bi-partisan and will receive support from both parties. Please read the resolution and my explaination and you will see the great mistake made by the Mackinaw Center.  There is another bill that is proposed by Reps. Warren and Smith which does raise the income tax to help pay for college.  That is not what my bill is about.  After reading the resolution and my explaination of its intent, I will be glad to discuss it further with you.  Hopefully you can find a way to support educating our children. Their future is what this is all about!

Rep. Fred Durhal, Jr. - 6th District - Detroit

 albaby2:

Of all the responses to the mistaken caption given you by the Mackinaw Center, at least you have taken the time to READ my legislation.  I will attempt to answer your legitimate questions about this bill.

The language of the resolution is written to accomodate its placement on the ballot for voter approval. A resolution must be written in such a manner as to allow for placement on the ballot in the fewest words. The Michigan Constitution requires that all funds of the state be appropriated by the legislature and spent by the executive branches through the General Fund or General Purpose budgets.  In order to protect the fund from encroachment by the legislative and executive, voter approval must be obtained in order to exempt the fund. In order for the question to be placed on the ballot, both houses of the legislature must approve it.

Next, you questioned the wording for the tax refund portion.  In order to allow for the collection of earmarked funding from income tax refunds by voluntary check off, the law must allow the check off. It is the only way to permit direction of the collected voluntary refund contributions to the Michigan College Tuition Fund (MCTF).

You asked what constitutes volunteer work and community service for this act? The bill will require that a scholarship recepient will give one year of service by going back to the high school of graduation, selecting a non-performing student, mentoring and tutoring that student to achieve the 2.5 GPA required for the scholarship.  Failure to do so would result in total payback to the fund of all paid scholarship funds.  If  a student moved out of state to accept employment, the requirement could be met through volunteering with an approved social service or educational agency for one year.

As for the GPA minimum requirement, I will write in the coming enabling legislation that at least a 2.5 GPA will be mandatory for continued eligibility in the program.  I am contemplating addition of coursework that lends itself to areas of employment connected to job development in the state (still under discussion).  We will NOT pay for courses not relevant to the economic recover of the state.

This bill is not an SOP for any union.  Nor is it a tax bill as erronously described in the heading of this subject by the Mackinaw Center.  My bill does not require any taxes.  It does allow for voluntary contributions of taxpayers and of our casinos, corporations, and the philothopic communities.  The lottery funding will guarantee base funding for the fund which I estimate needs between $1.7 to 2 billion for complete funding.

I am pleased to relate this information to you and I hope that it answers your questions.  Thank you for taking the time out to read and make an analysis.  Your questions are very well placed and a valid assist in my efforts to uplift Michigan's educational level.

Thanks for your comments.

Rep. Fred Durhal, Jr. - 6th District - Detroit

truckingal:

These over-educated liberal dems apparently never took an economics course! But then, the website whatwilltheylearn dot com shows that, to obtain a liberal arts degree at either U of M or MSU,  no courses in economics or US History/American Govt are required. U of M doesnt even require a mathematics course of any kind! Incidentally, neither require a literature course either. I wonder where these bozos went to school?? Since the educational cartel is now controlled by 'social justice/share the wealth' folks with no understanding of how the real world works, they want to spread even more of the taxpayer's so-called wealth to send everyone to the State-sponsored halls of indoctrination . . where they will get the same lopsided, useless education these representatives apparently got.

LOL. You seem to be confusing a liberal bent in politics to a liberal arts education. Not the same.

repdurhal:

This bill is not an SOP for any union.  Nor is it a tax bill as erronously described in the heading of this subject by the Mackinaw Center. 

I'm sure you are well aware of the political slant at the Mackinaw Center.