To reclassify rifles as pistols is just a sneaky wahy of spreading the requirement of registering firearms to long guns.

 lets work to repeal firearms registration.

drmoorejr:

To reclassify rifles as pistols is just a sneaky wahy of spreading the requirement of registering firearms to long guns.

 

Seems this bill's intent is to reclasify what now would be a pistol as a rifle or shotgun.

"Introduced by Rep. Douglas Geiss (D) on March 4, 2009, to revise the definition of “pistol” so that it applies to a firearm less than 26 inches long, rather than 30 inches. Many commercial rifles and shotguns have folding stocks that make the gun less than 30 inches when folded, presumably making them qualify for pistol registration requirements."

 no. they wish to make a shotgun less than 26 inches into a pistol so that the owner must register it. registration is wrong.

(e) "Pistol" means a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 30 26

inches or less in length, or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by

its construction and appearance conceals it as a firearm.

That is taken from the text of the bill. At the present time, a firearm, shotgun included, less than 30" is a pistol. This bill would reguire it to be less than 26". This would mean less, not more, of these weapons that are really not pistols would be classified as pistols.

 as would any shotgun with a folding stock. why treat one differently? why register at all?

This bill's intent is to allow these folding shotguns, and other weapons, that are now classified as pistols and have to be registered as such, to not have to be classified as pistols and registered.

I take it your issue is one of registration, of any gun. This bill would move in that direction, by removing a certain type of gun from the list of those needing to be registered.

You should contact your representative and encourage him/her to propose a bill to end registration of all guns, if that is your goal.

 this bill would add guns to the list of those that must be registered. you haven't answered why they must be registered in the first place. what is the purpose of registration?

This bill would not add guns to the list that needs to be registered (pistols) as I read it. It would do just the opposite.

Why any guns need to be registered is not the issue in this legislation. Sounds like an issue you need to bring up to your representative.

 shotguns that are less than 26 inches overall length are illegal. perhaps there is a confiscation plan in effect?

You really need to take the time and read this legislation.

 you really need to state the purpose of registration.

No, I don't. That is not the topic of this thread.

 but it is the purpose of the legislation.

no, it isn't. May I suggest you read it.

 i have. keeping and bearing arms is a right. registration has only one purpose. confiscation is a usurpation of that right.

Are you advocating not registering guns that are required to be registered? Registering guns is not confiscating them.

Nice try.  He is simply stating that the expansion of the pistol definition will only require in the increased number of firearms that are to be registered. 

Also note history has shown that all firearms confiscation started off with registration ALL of them.  Look at what happened during the times leading up to the American Revolution.   The very thought of firearms confiscation added to the reasons for the colonist to rebel.

You will not win a debate with an educated pro-gun advocate.  Did you know that when the registration of firearms HB first was debated/discussed that most Michigan citizens apposed it.  It was then diguised as a "safety inspection".  Now that they eliminated the "safety inspection" the true intent of that law was the registration of firearms.  Michigan is only 1 of 5 states with such laws.  The others like California have even stricter laws that did nothing to stop crime.

Firearms registration is a scam, as all trace data is available (from the BATFE) to law enforcement aganecies if they are investigating a crime with a gun in question. Redundant registration is a way for "big brother" or the Super nanny to keep tabs on the very people they do not trust.  If the government doesn't trust us, why should we trust it?

If the definition is narrowed by the DECREASE of the size of the firearm, then it would result in less guns being required to register.  However the very law of registering firearms could easily be repealed if they enforced other laws, such as unlawful firearms possesion by violent criminals.  These however don't happen as people are too busy making exscuses for them by stating that the very existance of the gun made the criminal.  The definition of a pistol should be limited to what arms are really pistols.

 so what is the legitimate purpose to registration? it solves no crimes. it prevents no crimes. what other purpose does a list of where all the weapons are serve?

drmoorejr:

He is simply stating that the expansion of the pistol definition will only require in the increased number of firearms that are to be registered. 

This bill does not expand the definition of a pistol, it decreases it, from the 30" limit to the 26" limit. Please read the bill.

bugman:

 so what is the legitimate purpose to registration? it solves no crimes. it prevents no crimes. what other purpose does a list of where all the weapons are serve?

Again, registration is not the issue here. This bill would actually reduce the types of guns that need to be registered.

 it would increase the amount of guns needing to be registered. although no gun needs to be registered. the supreme court has already ruled that criminals don't have to register their guns because to do so would violate their 5th amendment rights.

 this bill would also place many rifles and shotguns on the 'pistol' list. requiring registration, a prelude to confiscation. you have still not answered what the legitimate purpose for registration is.

Yes.  This is correct.  I misread the bill I interpeted that it was to increase from 26" to 30" which did not make sense. The Current definition is at 30".   The pistol definition is a waste of government resources and time anyway.   But the whole point of this pistol definition is to provide a guideline as to which firearms are subject to registration.

I know this thread was regarding the HB 4501, but if registration is techniqualy unlawful, since the public was misled to believe it was really a safety inspection (which is now no longer) then this pistol definition as much as a waste of resources as it this discussion.   :)

As qypsy stated, re-read the bill as I did.  Its actually a good one.... (thats if you consider most gun laws good anyway).

 doctor.

the original requirement was to register all handguns at the state level, and then have them 'safety inspected' (re-registered) at the local level. this bill only adds shotguns and rifles to the list of weapons that 'need' to be registered. and no, i don't think that registration is a good idea.

it hasn't reduced crime. it hasn't saved a single life. it hasn't accomplished what we were promised it would. all it has accomplished is supplying the government with a convenient list of guns and their locations. those who support these types of laws cannot give us a legitimate purpose for that list other than to facilitate confiscation. 

This bill does not add guns to the list that needs to be registered. It subtracts from that list. Opposing it is not the best way to reach your goal of ending all registration of pistols. Not passing this bill will leave things at the status quo, that is guns under 30" will need to be registered as pistols. Passing this bill will require guns under 26" to be registered as pistols.

 and the list will be expanded to include rifles under 26" and shotguns under 26". these were not included on the pistol list before.

 and the 'pistol' list gets no smaller due to the fact that there are no pistols on the list now that are over 26". so the size of the list grows by adding all rifles and shotguns shorter than that. they were not included before.

 and as usual, gun control gets a pass.

You seem to be searching for an army to battle in an empty field. I suggest you lobby your representative to repeal gun registration.

You are right and wrong.  There are no pistols over 26", but there is a current "pistol definition" that includes shotguns and rifles 30" and under.  This bill apears to narrow that definition. 

And yes I agree that firearms registration is not a worthy process.  But if anything you could conclude that this bill is not as bad as it seems, but maybe even a step towards less registration. 

Thank you dr. I have been saying that, but apparently to no avail.

 doctor.

the previous law did not include any rifles or shotguns. the list now includes those. thus, guns have been added to the 'registration' list. redefining a shotgun or a rifle as a pistol serves no legitimate purpose. it serves no safety purpose. it only changes those guns that must be registered and will be confiscated.

every state except this one that has had registration has had confiscation. the latest was louisiana and hurricane katrina. some of those people have still not gotten their legally owned guns back even after the courts have ruled in their favor and never will.

Ok.  I will have to look in my "trusty" Michigan Firearms Laws book.  I am technically working now... so I will do this later.  I will verify of thats correct or not.

 you will find that 26" and less shotguns are currently illegal. 26" and under rifles are as well. why are we changing the law to include these as pistols that must be registered? does this law 'legalize' them? or is this an 'end run' around the 5th amendment?

 An act to regulate and license the selling, purchasing,

possessing, and carrying of certain firearms and gas ejecting

devices; to prohibit the buying, selling, or carrying of certain

firearms and gas ejecting devices without a license or other

authorization; to provide for the forfeiture of firearms under

certain circumstances;

those phrases make this law, and any law like it unconstitutional.

§ 6 Bearing of arms.

 what is the public purpose for changing the definition of a shotgun into a pistol? what is the public purpose for changing the definition of a rifle into a pistol? it will only serve to make otherwise law abiding citizens into criminals. law that only effects small groups is bad law. law that criminalizes legal behavior that you happen to disagree with is tyranny.

I believe you are having a hard time with the reality of this bill.