Michigan Votes Forum

Would'nt it be more humain to disable your asailant than to kill him.I think that this would be a fine tool to do the job.

I see on TV that the police use them a lot instead of shooting them.

 tasers are not 'sure fire man stoppers'. nor are they 'sure fire woman stoppers' for that matter.

if an assailant has a lot of fight in them, or if they have been tasered before, they are likely to fight their way through the pulses and really cause trouble. for those people, it's good to have a gun to back up the taser.

i will always try a non-lethal method before a lethal one, but i will use lethal force immediately if necessary.

remember, the guy on the other end of the taser is trying his best to TAKE YOUR LIFE.

treat him as such.

The temptation to use them in minor squabbles or in anger would be too great for many people, whereas a gun is a last resort decision, only justified when used in fear of great bodily harm.

This has been a problem with police use of tasers.

 really?

most departments i deal with have no probem with them, even the two i used to work for.

what problem do you forsee?

perhaps the same vision that gave us the 'doom and gloom scenario' for the passage of concealed weapon permits, which, by the way, NEVER HAPPENED.

cops have been known to abuse authority, abuse power, abuse citizens, and abuse each other.

yes, there were several officers who tasered themselves in their units.

civilians do not follow their example.

my years in law enforcement have taught me that.

when the new orleans police department went from revolvers to semi-automatics, they had seventy eight "self inflicted" shootings in the first month. some blamed the new guns. we firearms instructors blamed the stupidity of the shooters involved.

by the way, there were fewer than five "civilian self inflicted" shootings in the first three years of having concealed weapons permits.

obviously you don't trust your fellow citizens.

show me the records of a city that allows tasers in civilian hands, and let's compare civilian taser experience with law enforcement experience.

Really? Really.

I see your taking my advice and answering your own questions.

If, just if, you really were a New Orleans cop, your statement about abusing authority, power, citizens, and each other is an understatement for that department.

No, I don't trust all my fellow citizens. They have faults and issues, just like me and you.

I'd rather have someone who doesn't agree with me call me a name, rather than taser me.

 i was never a new orleans police officer.

i WAS a deputy sheriff.

i prosecuted many cases of abuse. each and every one i found out about. even in my own department.

now, why don't you trust your fellow citizens? you give them license to drive ton-and-a-half weapons every day. they kill with those very efficiently, if a bit randomly.

pistol permits have brought no such carnage, despite dire warnings from the left. you just fear your alligator mouth getting your jay-bird butt into big trouble and having someone have efficient means of knocking you around.

i've found that an armed society is a POLITE society. people don't lip off to other people who probably have a gun.

they also don't rob them, or try to murder them. and in the end, THAT is the goal, not tasering each other in bar fights.

i, as an ex-cop, don't have a problem with armed citizens, in fact, i promote an armed society. what is YOUR problem with an armed society?

and don't forget, if you disarm society, pretty soon you will be disarmed too, and so will your 'bodyguards' the police.

those that trade liberty for security DESERVE NEITHER.

I think I've lived alot longer than you, crazy, and I don't walk around in fear. The size of my mouth and my butt don't have alot to do with my survival. The size of my brain does. I also am polite, and don't have to carry a gun to be that way.

Whether your an ex cop or not matters little to me, other than if you are that might explain your warped sense of our society, a condition not unusual for ex cops, dealing with low lifes and criminals as much as they do.

I have no intention of disarming society, never said I did. I also see no need for a license to carry a gun. In most situations, I see no need to carry one. If I put myself in that type of a situation, I would.

I also see no need, and believe it is a terrible idea, for people to carry around non-lethal weapons. That just seems so obvious to me, that people would be more apt to use them for minor conflicts, when a good round of fisticuffs would suffice, and size and ability balance anger.

I agree with your closing quote, but again, your politics is in direct opposition to that very idea. The war on terror has been based on us giving up liberty for security.

jmangan:

I think I've lived alot longer than you, crazy, and I don't walk around in fear.

<that's because you have never been victimized. you DO fear your fellow citizen being armed. you even said so. you fear it so much that you have lost your trust in him. no wonder you feel the need for laws that cover every facet of daily life, you don't trust the guy next door to do anything but harm you. i'm surprised you are not armed to the teeth.>

 The size of my mouth and my butt don't have alot to do with my survival. The size of my brain does. I also am polite, and don't have to carry a gun to be that way.

<but  yet you are so rude that you will not answer questions. go figure.>

Whether your an ex cop or not matters little to me, other than if you are that might explain your warped sense of our society, a condition not unusual for ex cops, dealing with low lifes and criminals as much as they do.

<now, sensible people don't go around making such ASSUMPTIONS. it seems to be a habit for you.>

I have no intention of disarming society, never said I did. I also see no need for a license to carry a gun. In most situations, I see no need to carry one. If I put myself in that type of a situation, I would.

<you'd better not in this state. the licensing process is lengthy and not 'sure fire' for success. the government turns down around fifteen percent of the applicants for no good reason. they're being sued for it.>

 

I also see no need, and believe it is a terrible idea, for people to carry around non-lethal weapons.

<that's because you don't trust them.>

 That just seems so obvious to me, that people would be more apt to use them for minor conflicts, when a good round of fisticuffs would suffice, and size and ability balance anger.

<you get into a lot of those, do you? do you hang around where a lot of those happen? no wonder you don't want people to be armed.>

I agree with your closing quote, but again, your politics is in direct opposition to that very idea. The war on terror has been based on us giving up liberty for security.

<most wars are. but then again, terrorists must be fought, even the terrorists at home, or we must all relegate ourselves to living in terror. you live in fear of an armed society, you live in fear of the next man doing you harm, you have just said so. perhaps becoming more responsible for your own safety and not relying on the police to 'protect' you will ease your fear. my politics are exactly as the quote says. people who ask for many laws usually do so for their neighbor, not themselves. and think themselves 'above the law'.>

now, when you start DOING as you say and becoming polite, i will believe what you say. not until. 

 

I have no interest in whether you believe what I say or not. I view you as a closed mind, unable to accept facts that don't match your ridgid ideology. You may get off on insulting people on this forum, that doesn't bother me. I can give as good as I get. I also can, and do , correspond politely and intelligently with many other people on other forums.

This obssesion you have with getting the last word is actually funny, and I must admit I get a kick out of it. I have known quite a few active and retired police officers in my life, most of them very fine people. But a few have shown the same traits you do, especially the once that have worked in undercover units. They see society as basically evil because of their constant association with criminals. Maybe that's your problem, or maybe you just made up that whole ex-cop, world traveler, successful business man thing to cover up a not so happy life. I don't know. If the former, I understand, if the latter, you have my sympathy.

No, I don't live in fear. Quite the opposite. I go through every day of my life, dealing with lots of people, without a gun, or a taser. I see this quite differently than you. People who feel the need to be armed must be afraid of something or someone, or they are put, or put themselves, into dangerous situations. If they put themselves in these situations, they are reckless or stupid, if they are put in these situations, by a job or business, they are wise to carry a weapon. But I still feel a gun is the better choice, precisely because of it's lethality. Only the most serious situations would require, or justify, it's use.

jmangan:

I have no interest in whether you believe what I say or not. I view you as a closed mind, unable to accept facts that don't match your ridgid ideology. You may get off on insulting people on this forum, that doesn't bother me. I can give as good as I get. I also can, and do , correspond politely and intelligently with many other people on other forums.

<bull.>

This obssesion you have with getting the last word is actually funny, and I must admit I get a kick out of it. I have known quite a few active and retired police officers in my life, most of them very fine people. But a few have shown the same traits you do, especially the once that have worked in undercover units. They see society as basically evil because of their constant association with criminals. Maybe that's your problem, or maybe you just made up that whole ex-cop, world traveler, successful business man thing to cover up a not so happy life. I don't know. If the former, I understand, if the latter, you have my sympathy.

<so, have your friends bred the contempt in you that you show for police? or is it a PERSONAL EXPERIENCE that has soured you?>

No, I don't live in fear. Quite the opposite. I go through every day of my life, dealing with lots of people, without a gun, or a taser. I see this quite differently than you. People who feel the need to be armed must be afraid of something or someone, or they are put, or put themselves, into dangerous situations. If they put themselves in these situations, they are reckless or stupid,

<a bigoted and uninformed position, but your position nonetheless.>

 if they are put in these situations, by a job or business, they are wise to carry a weapon.

<THAT is the first REALLY INTELLIGENT THING YOU HAVE SAID IN WEEKS.>

 But I still feel a gun is the better choice, precisely because of it's lethality. Only the most serious situations would require, or justify, it's use.

<i agree, but i still like to have a choice given to me by a LESS THAN LETHAL weapon at my disposal.>

 you would keep people from exercising just such a choice simply because YOU don't believe in carrying one. i could care less if you do or don't, but don't keep OTHERS from protecting themselves as THEY see fit simply because YOU can't see the utility of the tool.

now, as for your PERSONAL OBSESSION WITH ME, it's time you sought help.

if you don't like me having the last word... why do you keep replying???

another sign of your weakness.

I said just the opposite, I get a kickout of your obsession with the last word. I reply because I know, almost as certainly as the sun coming up in the morning, that you will reply. You can't help yourself.

Checkmate

 who's obsession is worse.... yours or mine?

yours of course...

this isn't chess... you who cannot comprehend "pro" quite probably can't even master checkers.

 between you and insane, i'm not sure which is worse.

but the more you read my posts, the more you learn. and that's a good thing.

 and i get the feeling that i'm going to need that taser soon, one or the other of you is going to end up popping up out of a dark alley. if what you two say about the people of michigan is true, then no citizen here can be trusted.

if you don't trust any citizens to arm themselves, and i don't trust either of you, there are no people here worthy of trust.

no wonder you have been disarmed.

pity.

jmangan:

I also see no need, and believe it is a terrible idea, for people to carry around non-lethal weapons.

i thought you said you didn't want to disarm the populace????

which one is the lie?

 did you know that at one time in this country, it was perfecly legal to buy a fully automatic machine gun?

you could buy one through the mail. sears sold them, TENS OF THOUSANDS OF THEM. we no longer have them because A FEW CRIMINALS discovered how effective they were, and now NO LEGISLATOR CAN SEE THE NEED FOR THEM.

did you know that at one time in this country it was perfectly legal to buy pure, unadulterated drugs?

you could buy them from any corner drugstore. cheaply. the only addicts were just that... addicts. there were no PUSHERS, there were no 'drug problems' till the racists got involved and started the RUMOR that blacks were raping white women under the influence of cocaine. the fact is, most blacks could have cared less about cocaine OR white women, that is until cocaine was made illegal.

did you know that at one time in this country it was perfectly legal to carry any firearm anywhere you wanted, any way you wanted?

it wasn't until the police started complaining about concealed weapons, (a tactic which they STILL USE) being used against them.

they didn't want to be EQUAL to the citizens, they wanted to be SUPERIOR to the citizens. and any police officer who spoke out about citizens rights to carry concealed was punished, as they still are today.

what has happened to our rights? our freedoms.

someone could see no reason we needed them. so we lost them.

 oh look...

our little boy has found the 'smiley' button...

we're all so PROUD...

 even the wording of this bill riles me. the government thinking that they have the absolute power to deprive citizens of constitutional rights at will.

the constitution says KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, not just KEEP PISTOLS, BUT NOT TASERS. we should be able to arm ourselves with what we will.

just like the freedom of speech allows us to say what we will.

if the free people of michigan allow their rights to be taken from them, then there are no free people of michigan. there are no citizens, only subjects.

the real anger point for me is the fact that you people on the left would ban something over what it MIGHT do, not what it HAS done.

well, your car MIGHT kill someone. give up your drivers license.

your house MIGHT have radon. move out.

your water MIGHT have carcinogens. quit drinking it.

your air MIGHT be polluted by the auto industry. quit breathing it.

your leftist words MIGHT just deprive someone of his ability to protect himself, and cost him his life. stop saying them.