Michigan Votes Forum

 sane...

don't you know what ANYTHING means?

if you cannot grasp PRO... what makes you think i'm going to try to get you up to speed with SECURITY SOLUTIONS.

come on... what do you think i am... a PRIVATE SCHOOL TEACHER???

 by the way,

what do YOU need government for?

crazycajun:

 sane...

don't you know what ANYTHING means?

if you cannot grasp PRO... what makes you think i'm going to try to get you up to speed with SECURITY SOLUTIONS.

come on... what do you think i am... a PRIVATE SCHOOL TEACHER???

Oh, I definitely do not think you are a school teacher.  I think there are two other very real possibilities.  One, you are a fool who actually doesn't know or never has bothered to think through and define what the terms you throw about in these discussions mean to you; or, two, you are an insecure and intentionally evasive twit who doesn't have the guts to commit to defining the terms you use, so you can avoid be held accountable for your intentions in discussion.  Neither is admirable.

So, just was do you mean by "security solutions"?  Do you provide blankies and pacifiers for other insecure twits, or what?

 when, and IF i decide you need to know.. you will know. till then, my work is not exactly for publication, especially to you.

now, can you tell me what all this has to do with democrat socialists?

and by the way, if you have no idea about the definitions of terms, how do you suppose that you will be able to keep up with the conversation?

now, exactly which terms are you having problems with NOW?

tell me, do you even OWN a dictionary?

 and which branch of government do you work for?

crazycajun:

i provide security solutions for prisons, public and private. i personally wish EVERY prison was private, as they have FAR fewer problem than public prisons.

PECOS, Texas — Authorities say more than 1,000 inmates are involved in the second prison riot in the past month at the privately run Reeves County Detention Center in West Texas.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/6240756.html

You can have your own opinion, but not your own facts.

so what? 

attica has prison riots yearly.

california prisons have a special 'riot unit' that goes from prison to prison, specially trained to quell riots because they happen so often.

that's two prisons out of thousands that have had DOZENS of riots THIS YEAR, and we never read about them in the paper.

in fact, prison riots are a fairly common occurence. it seems they have nothing much better to do.

did you know that the reason we don't use alcatraz as a prison anymore is not the decrepid condition, or the famous escapes, but the fact that riot response from the army is so slow in coming from across the bay?

probably not.

every prison in the country, public and private will have a riot within it's walls within the next year or so. that is a fact. some will be quietly handled and the world will never know about it. others will be splashed across the papers depending on the whims of the editors in charge.

either way, they will happen. public and private has nothing to do with whether or not the facility will have a riot.

in the 'bad old days', the common response to a riot was to simply evacuate the guards, shut the doors, lock them, turn off the water, the gas, and the electricity, and let the riot happen. sooner or later, they will get too thirsty to kill each other, and too hungry to want to fight each other, the mormons went so far as to attempt to pass a law in utah that said that anyone involved in a prison riot would automatically get life in prison witout the possibility of pardon or parole. that from the most forgiving bunch of people on the planet.

so, again, i ask... what's your point?

crazycajun:

 try doing business with the state yourself.

see how long it takes them to 'clear' your check.

Earlier, you said the State had bounced checks on you.  

Here are the authentic definitions of the terms you try to use interchangably:

Check Clearing definition:

 

The movement of a check from the depository institution at which it was deposited back to the institution on which it was written; the movement of funds in the opposite direction and the corresponding credit and debit to the involved accounts. The Federal Reserve operates a nationwide check-clearing system.

 

Source: http://financial-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Check+clearing

 

Bounced Check definition:

 

A check which a bank returns because it is not payable due to insufficient funds. also called rubber check.

 

Source:  InvestorWords.com

So we see, you use words here interchagably that have completely different meanings.  You do this often.  That is why you are asked to define your terms, so we know what they mean to you, and we can get on with the discussion.

By the way, I did look up a definition for "security solutions."  Here's what I found:

Security:

 

a: freedom from danger 

 

Solution:

 

From Middle English: dispersal of bodily humors

Very, very interesting.

please... educate yourself. if you can't or won't.... EXCUSE YOURSELF.

I educate myself daily -- always find out something new.  Today, it was that you are a rubber glove salesman.

crazycajun:

attica has prison riots yearly.

california prisons have a special 'riot unit' that goes from prison to prison, specially trained to quell riots because they happen so often.

that's two prisons out of thousands that have had DOZENS of riots THIS YEAR, and we never read about them in the paper.

in fact, prison riots are a fairly common occurence. 

Gee, I went right to Google to check out the assertions about Attica and dozens of riots in thousands of prisons already this year.  Couldn't find any reports of such a phenomenon.  Couldn't find it in 2008 or 2007 either ... which leads me to believe there probably is a very good reason we never read about such things in the paper.  (Hint: maybe they don't happen.)  

But of course, it probably all depends on how our resident "security solutions" whiz kid -- that is, rubber glove salesman -- defines words like "riot" and "prison."

 coming from a person who doesn't know the definition of the word 'PRO', this doesn't surprise me.

keep trying,

 try this MUCH MORE COMMON definition of the word solution...

the work i do provides all of these.

perhaps your problem is that you are looking too hard in all the wrong places.

unless of course, that was another vague attempt at humor... no, it couldn't have been... it would have been funny.

 you couldn't have googled "prison riots" and got nothing. i googled prison riots just now and got ten pages of results plus more.

now, how do YOU define prison riot? use concrete terms.

would you say that a riot was any time more than fifty inmates have to be forcibly returned to their cells?

or would you say that a riot was any time a guard was killed?

or would you say that a riot was any time violence breaks out on the 'yard'?

or would you say that a riot was any time that inmates use stolen tools to attack authorities?

please be very specific in your definitions.

 and by the way... what has your unnatural interest in what i do for a living got to do with democrat socialism?

are you trying to disenfranchise me from my line of work, to make it PUBLIC?

by the way, why do PUBLIC PRISONS hire PRIVATE CITIZENS to be guards?

why must every function in life be a function of government?

you STILL haven't told us what you NEED GOVERNMENT FOR.

why are you afraid to answer that question?

do you NEED government to obtain a job? NO. even i, who get checks from several states governments don't NEED government. my services and products sell to the private sector quite well.

do you NEED government to provide you healthcare? NO. with a little initiative, you too can have insurance to cover more medical expenses than the government will ever be able to provide you with universal healthcare.

do you NEED government to make moral decisions for you? NO. if you cannot tell for yourself what is and what isn't moral, the government can tell you anything is moral, and you won't know the difference.

cops carry guns so they can kill people if they have to. which is probably why you aren't a cop.

soldiers carry guns so they can kill people if they have to. which is probably why you aren't a soldier.

good citizens carry guns so that they can kill people if they have to.... (see a pattern building here?)

1. can democratic socialism cure the problems that michigan faces today?
2. exactly how would democratic socialism accomplish this?
3. would private property rights be retained under democratic socialism?
4. would private business rights be retained under democratic socialism?
5. would personal liberties be retained under democratic socialism?
6. would the individual's right to keep and bear arms be retained under democratic socialism?
7. would the individual still have freedom of religion under democratic socialism?
8. would only workers have a vote under democratic socialism?
9. would only 'PARTY MEMBERS' have a vote under democratic socialism?
10. would the GOVERNMENT answer to the PEOPLE, or would the PEOPLE answer to the government under democratic socialism?

let's see if we can get some well reasoned, well thought out answers for these questions.

if we do, there are more.

these ten will do for a start.

happy squirming.

 WHY is it i'm not surprised that the left cannot answer these simple questions?

i think i'll give them a few hours to get the trajedy out of their systems, one of their handpicked bretheren retired from the running for a plum presidential cabinet position for TAX PROBLEMS.

a DEMOCRAT who doesn't like to pay taxes... go figure...

crazycajun:

 

well guys.. you had your chance,but you flubbed it.

 

can democratic socialism cure the problems that michigan faces today?

<NO. democratic socialism would be SO BUSY trying to distribute what little wealth is left to those that don't deserve it, there would be nothing left to save the state with. the only way to save the state is to stimulate business. to stimulate business you must have personal ownership of businesses. socialism doesn't allow that.

exactly how would democratic socialism accomplish this?

<the short answer is that it WOULDN'T.> 

would private property rights be retained under democratic socialism?

<NO.>

would private business rights be retained under democratic socialism?

<NO.> 

would personal liberties be retained under democratic socialism?

<NO.> 

would the individual's right to keep and bear arms be retained under democratic socialism?

<NO.> 

would the individual still have freedom of religion under democratic socialism?

,<NO.>

would only workers have a vote under democratic socialism?

<that depends on which worker is chosen to be dictator. in any case, there would only be ONE party, ONE candidate, and your ONE vote had better be for the dictator, because there is no other choice.>

would only 'PARTY MEMBERS' have a vote under democratic socialism?

<see the note above.>

would the GOVERNMENT answer to the PEOPLE, or would the PEOPLE answer to the government under democratic socialism?

<the people would answer to the government.>

let's see if we can get some well reasoned, well thought out answers for these questions.

<you won't see any from the left, if that's what you're waiting for.> 

if we do, there are more.

these ten will do for a start.

happy squirming.

 one union... the TEACHER'S UNION, gets 400,000,000.00 of our tax dollars a year.

all the people who pay dues are paid with our tax money.

i think that four hundred million would be better spend elsewhere, solving the problems of michigan, rather than electing another democrat to office.

if the teachers WANT to donate that amount to the candidates, let them donate it directly. privately. to express their wishes. that way, those FEW who don't wish that their money go to electing democrats will have their CHOICE in the matter.

how can you say that democrats and unions are FREEDOM LOVING when they don't give their members the FREEDOM OF CHOICE?

crazycajun:

1. can democratic socialism cure the problems that michigan faces today?
2. exactly how would democratic socialism accomplish this?
3. would private property rights be retained under democratic socialism?
4. would private business rights be retained under democratic socialism?
5. would personal liberties be retained under democratic socialism?
6. would the individual's right to keep and bear arms be retained under democratic socialism?
7. would the individual still have freedom of religion under democratic socialism?
8. would only workers have a vote under democratic socialism?
9. would only 'PARTY MEMBERS' have a vote under democratic socialism?
10. would the GOVERNMENT answer to the PEOPLE, or would the PEOPLE answer to the government under democratic socialism?

The answer is a big YES to all of these.  Your ignorance shows........AGAIN.

Pffft !

crazycajun:

 one union... the TEACHER'S UNION, gets 400,000,000.00 of our tax dollars a year.

all the people who pay dues are paid with our tax money.

This is the kind of statement that marks you as utterly stupid or completely bonkers.

The fact is, once a dollar is paid out to a school employee (teacher or any other) in return for services rendered that dollar belongs to that wage earner, period, subject to taxation and all those other inconvenient attachments that beset every one of us.  No taxpayer other than that employee has a scintilla of claim to that money.  So, no, the teachers unions do not receive a cent from taxpayers in the form of dues or service fees or PAC contributions.

 i'm paid by the taxpayers, AND the public at large.

if a politician spent our money to get re-elected using the same tactics that the union uses, he would be instantly guilty of CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

teachers pump billions into political campaigns. doesn't that make the teacher's union the most powerful lobbyist this side of the automakers union?

i thought you were opposed to lobbyists.

oh wait.. i'm sorry... you're only opposed to REPUBLICAN LOBBYISTS.

crazycajun:

teachers pump billions into political campaigns. 

And why not?  It is their money to do with as they see fit. 

Do you now seek to disenfranchise teachers, or turn them into non-citizens, or what?

TrueBlue:

crazycajun:

1. can democratic socialism cure the problems that michigan faces today?

<so, why is there no successful socialist country on this planet? because socialism CANNOT solve those problems>

exactly how would democratic socialism accomplish this?

<this is not a YES OR NO question. you still haven't answered it. we're WAAAAAAAAITING...>

 

would private property rights be retained under democratic socialism?

<no. it's not retained under communism, nor is it retained in any 'socialist like' country. socialism is counter to PRIVATE ANYTHING.

would private business rights be retained under democratic socialism?

<no. there ARE no private businesses in socialist countries. all is owned by the state.> 

would personal liberties be retained under democratic socialism?

<again, no. only the party elite would be free. everyone else would only be drones to work for the good of the state.>

would the individual's right to keep and bear arms be retained under democratic socialism?

<absolutely not. look at the lessons of lenin, pol pot, and the khmer rouge. look at musselini, and hitler, they all thought it necessary to disarm their people before national socialism could be implemented.>

would the individual still have freedom of religion under democratic socialism?

after the lessons of the list above, i'd have to say no... history is against you on this one, trueblue, but i like your spirit.>

 

would only workers have a vote under democratic socialism?

<probably not. there would be no need to vote. the party would be self implementing. that is, whoever the party said is in charge, was in charge. unless of course there is a coup.>

 

would only 'PARTY MEMBERS' have a vote under democratic socialism?

<again, that would depend on which dictator they choose to lead the party. it's up to him.>

would the GOVERNMENT answer to the PEOPLE, or would the PEOPLE answer to the government under democratic socialism?

<the people would certainly have to answer to the government. there is no other way that PROPER SOCIAL CONTROLS could be enforced.> 

 

 

The answer is a big YES to all of these.  Your ignorance shows........AGAIN.

Pffft !

 
<i'd say YOUR ignorance shows again. number two requires an answer that isn't yes or no. but an explanation of HOW it would do the job, which you conveniently have forgotten to provide.

time to PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

i'm interested to read how you think socialism would accomplish that task.

 democratic socialism is a myth.

nothing more.

 is this trueblue person attempting to re-write the constitution? we have a long established form of government, and a long established method of changing it. obviously the people don't want to be socialist, democratic or otherwise, or they would have voted to be democratic socialists. 

i do see a troubling shift to the left, but i also see a counter swing in the popularity ratings of the left due to the continuing collapse of our economy,and the failure of the programs designed to 'turn things around'. good luck fellows.

silence dogood:

 is this trueblue person attempting to re-write the constitution? we have a long established form of government, and a long established method of changing it. obviously the people don't want to be socialist, democratic or otherwise, or they would have voted to be democratic socialists. 

There is no conflict between democratic socialism and the Constitution.

In fact, the Constitution would be more true to itself under that system.

Social Security is a program that is NOT in conflict with the Constitution.

Public Libraries are not Un-constitutional  either.

Niether is the US Post office, the US millitary, public schools,  Fire departments or the million other "SOCIAL"  programs we as a country, as a society pay for .......TOGETHER !!

Unless of course the "conservative" geniuses would like to eliminate the public "Liberrys" in their communities to save a couple of bucks in taxes.   HELL,  if you cant afford to buy the books for your brat, maybe he dont need em anyway, ... right?? !!

(Think the conservatives are "un-edjumacated" now,..?   ..... wait till they run with that Idea !!  LOLOLOL )

Or how about the fire dept ??   We can save LOTSA tax money there tooooo !!!!

Only the super rich will be able to afford it.

Cuz when your shack is on fire,   the Fire dept will go home once your Master card is declined !   LOLOLOLOL

(Cost of putting out a fire  $10,000

Regular guy tax savings by elimination of FD......100 Bucks

Rich guy or corporate tax savings.........100,000 bucks)

 Only a republican has a hard time understanding that TOGETHER we are stronger than seperate.

"United we stand" is NOT a bumper sticker!

silence dogood:

i do see a troubling shift to the left, but i also see a counter swing in the popularity ratings of the left due to the continuing collapse of our economy,and the failure of the programs designed to 'turn things around'. good luck fellows.

Exactly where do you see this "counter swing"? The most accurate poll to date, the general election, showed a substantial swing to the left.

You are correct in your assesment though that we will need luck, and a whole lot more, to turn things around. We were left with a huge pile of right wing ####.

 the democrats have been in control here for seven plus years, with a majority in one house and the governor's mansion. how long does it take you to turn things around? the popularity of the president and the democrats is sharply down since the election,even though presidential decisions have been markedly 'right' leaning as of late. the stock market is also down considerably from election day, and continues to fall.

why are you trying to convince us that the republicans alone have done this? aren't you forgetting to put the blame where it actually belongs?  looking at laws you favor on this site, or at least the ones you seem to agree with, democrat written ones aren't at the top of your hit parade.

 so, who would be in charge of this socialist utopia? you can't make the boss in charge, he's one of the 'evil rich'. you can't make the lowest worker be in charge, he's not educated enough. you can't make the most educated among us in charge, he's one of the counter-culture, or he's one of the bourgeoisie. you can't have an election to see who's in charge, as those who run for office are looking to be in charge, and in a true socialist utopia, everyone is in charge, all are supposedly equal. and you can't just appoint anyone to be in charge, as the true socialist ideals dictate that all the proletariat are equally untrustworthy, at least according to Lenin and Engels.

as you propose a democratic socialism, does that mean that everything gets voted on? how many elections will you have to have in a week? or will you just trust in the untrustworthy?

silence dogood:

 the democrats have been in control here for seven plus years, with a majority in one house and the governor's mansion. how long does it take you to turn things around? the popularity of the president and the democrats is sharply down since the election,even though presidential decisions have been markedly 'right' leaning as of late. the stock market is also down considerably from election day, and continues to fall.

Obama, 62% approval rating

Congress, 41% approval rating

Leader of the Republican party Rush Limbaugh, 27% approval rating

Figures are from pollingreport.com, a non-partisan group.

 you, sir, have a strange definition of non-partisan. cnn polls have the president down to less than fifty percent, at least that's what they keep crowing about. the stock market is trying to make a technical rebound, but is failing miserably. that index was once up a thousand points higher before obama was elected, but has plummeted in the fifty days since. not a good sign.

by the way, rush is a commentator, like michael moore. if you don't find him entertaining, ignore him. he might go away. those that pay his bills listen, you just don't need to be one of them. you are free to choose as you wish, but you are not free to shut him up.

 quoting poll numbers is not answering the question. how long does it take for a democrat to turn things around? it seems it takes longer than two terms.

jmangan:

Anarchy: a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government. Isn't that what you want?

you betcha sweet bippy. anarchy is complete freedom. socialism is complete government with no freedom. if you value the assistance and control of government that much, good, place yourself under their complete assistance and control. leave the free people to be free.

you seem to need a king. the rest of us don't. 

A king would be monarchy. Keep your archys straight.

I value the order, unity, security, and potential for progress afforded by the structure of a democratic government, sprinkled with just a light dash of socialism. Ours is working out quite well for me, and I would venture to say for you.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 so you don't value the prosperity brought on by capitalism? don't you value freedom at all? your 'light dash of socialism' just isn't working. our system has far too many social programs to be supported by a dwindling tax base. i wonder what percentage of the gross domestic product you would like to see dedicated to social programs? we're already hovering around thirty, england is at fifty, and some countries are over seventy.

silence dogood:

 so you don't value the prosperity brought on by capitalism?

LOLOLOL  Yeah the economy is just doing "swimmingly".  LOLOLOL

Capitalism is DOA.

The social democracies of the world are in much better shape and at least better insulated against this capitalist created collapse.

Open your eyes dude.

 please list these social democracies. i'd be interested to know which countries you believe are socialist democracies, as opposed to democratic socialists, as you seem to be trying to direct us towards one and away from another. 

 you wouldn't perhaps be talking about the collapse of the economy brought on by overly inflated housing prices, backed up by loans issued by unscrupulous banks, now would you? let's compare that to the economic collapse brought on by overly inflated wages, backed up by liberal labor unions. or perhaps we should compare it to the economic collapse brougt on by overly inflated taxes, backed up by a liberal "anti-business" government. one is as nasty as the other, but we, as a country, have seen worse. i don't believe that this economy is dead any more than you do, but "capitalism is DOA" is a much much more vague sound-bite than "our financial system needs more government oversight."

perhaps you could educate me as to how democratic socialism will cure these collapses.

silence dogood:

we're already hovering around thirty,

Like I said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 so you are saying that our system isn't broken and it doesn't need fixing. so you must be also saying that democratic socialism wouldn't fix it in any case. it certainly doesn't seem to have fixed any other economic systems on the planet, that's a good reason not to try and mess with what is working here.

silence dogood:

let's compare that to the economic collapse brought on by overly inflated wages, backed up by liberal labor unions.

Wages have remained stagnant and union membership has declined for 20 years. If you have research to dispute that statement, please share it with us.