Michigan Votes Forum

 i'd be interested to hear what democrats think the job of government is, and why they think that it is wrong for the people to try and do that job for themselves?

for example,

is it the JOB OF GOVERNMENT to provide for the poor?

is it the JOB OF GOVERNMENT to protect us from being offended?

is it the JOB OF GOVERNMENT to educate our children?

is it the JOB OF GOVERNMENT to make you happy?

is it the JOB OF GOVERNMENT to provide you a job?

People are doing that job for themselves. People are government. Government of, for and by the people.

Republicans like to try and make us think the government is some alien entity that appeared on earth in the dark of night, and is here to conquer us and turn us into sombies.

We are the government. Those are our representatives making the laws we live by, and if we don't like it, we change it. It is the job of government to do all the things you list, and more, because it is our job to make society work for all of us.

Remember the words of the Declaration of Independence, giving all of us the right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

 so, when did you get the right to steal my money?

what makes you think that the PROPER JOB OF GOVERNMENT IS TO MAKE SOCIETY WORK FOR ALL OF US?

is that in the constitution?

is that what you take the words "PROMOTE HARMONY" to mean?

is that what you mean by "persue happiness"? remember, the constitution doesn't GUARANTEE that you will BE happy, but that you will be able to be free to PERSUE HAPPINESS.

so, please EXPLAIN why you think that all those things are the proper job of government, and not better served by the 'private sector', like it was before 'big government' stepped in?

crazycajun:

 so, when did you get the right to steal my money?

Who is stealing your money? Not me.

crazycajun:

what makes you think that the PROPER JOB OF GOVERNMENT IS TO MAKE SOCIETY WORK FOR ALL OF US?

Doesn't sound like a job the private sector would want. No money in it.

crazycajun:

is that in the constitution?

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. (this is the preamble to the constitution, fyi)

crazycajun:

so, please EXPLAIN why you think that all those things are the proper job of government, and not better served by the 'private sector', like it was before 'big government' stepped in?

Please read the preamble again.

 why do you take the term PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE to read as PROVIDE THE GENERAL WELFARE?

there are plenty of ways to promote the general welfare that don't involve making payments to those who will not work.

in some MORE SOCIALIST countries, (as there are no successfull socialist countries on the planet) those that will not work must provide public service in the form of a mandatory stint in the military.

it's two years in the british commonwealth.

 why is it that our government has ASSUMED more and more tasks upon itself, especially since the second world war.

we took on the job of ending poverty. we spent TRILLIONS of dollars on welfare. there are still poor people.

at one time, poor people were just poor. they were left to scrabble out an existance for themselves. good people helped them, some gave them a hand out. some gave them jobs and a HAND UP. and for a while, before welfare, we had FEWER POOR PEOPLE.

we took on the job of educating every american. we spent TRILLIONS of dollars on public schooling. there are still illiterate people, but now, they have a diploma.

at one time, country school houses were owned and operated by the farm on which they sat. the teacher was paid for by the owner of the land. no, not every child could read, but MOST COULD. no, not every man was literate, but each and every one knew more about being a good citizen, and a good steward, than we do today.

we took on the job of ending hunger. we spent TRILLIONS of dollars on 'gubmint cheese'. there are still hungry people.

at one time, cities and towns dedicated 'neighborhood gardens' to ending hunger. for the 'price' of allowing a parcel of unused land to sit UNTAXED, small (or sometimes large) gardens were planted BY THE HUNGRY PEOPLE, these gardens FED THOUSANDS, even in big cities. we have more people starving to death today than we did during the GREAT DEPRESSION or the DUSTBOWL.

so you see. just throwing vast amounts of taxpayer money at a problem is NOT always going to solve it. sometimes you need to get the people effected involved in the solution.

our great grandparents knew how to end (or at least alleviate) these problems without taxing themselves to death. they knew that giving a poor man a dollar didn't help him. giving him a way to EARN his keep did. they knew that giving a hungry man a meal didn't help him. giving him a way to grow his food did. they knew that giving a kid a twelve year sentence in a public school didn't help him. taking him and making him RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS EDUCATION, and ACCOUNTABLE ON A PERSONAL LEVEL DID. more education and, yes, i'll say it... WISDOM has passed over the dinner table than has ever passed over the desk of a public indoctrination center.

all these tasks that government takes over are better served by the people. they USED to be served by the people. and they SHOULD AGAIN be served by the people.

the lord, and the people, help those that HELP THEMSELVES.

jmangan:

crazycajun:

 so, when did you get the right to steal my money?

Who is stealing your money? Not me.

<YOU said that PEOPLE ARE THE GOVERNMENT.  that is certainly the goal, but ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES are the government, and they have taken money from people wrongly, and used it against the stated will of THE PEOPLE, those that elected them thousands of times. taking money against THE PEOPLE'S WILL and using it in a way the THE PEOPLE DON'T APPROVE OF is THEFT. >

crazycajun:

what makes you think that the PROPER JOB OF GOVERNMENT IS TO MAKE SOCIETY WORK FOR ALL OF US?

Doesn't sound like a job the private sector would want. No money in it.

<what difference does that make? THE PEOPLE have aided and supported the poor for centuries. not because they WANTED TO, but because they felt it in their hearts that it was NECESSARY. big government 'fixes' problems by throwing beurocracy at it, PEOPLE solve problems by FIRST finding out what is needed, and then getting it. it's a NOVEL approach, i understand, but a WORKABLE ONE.>

crazycajun:

is that in the constitution?

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. (this is the preamble to the constitution, fyi)

<OK, it's NOT in there... how does taking one person's money because he has more than other people qualify as JUSTICE? how does that provide domestic tranquility? how is taking a rich person's money and giving it to a poor person PROMOTING THE GENERAL WELFARE? and how does making a poor person a slave to the government secure the blessings of liberty?>

crazycajun:

so, please EXPLAIN why you think that all those things are the proper job of government, and not better served by the 'private sector', like it was before 'big government' stepped in?

Please read the preamble again.

<i have. now please answer the questions.>

 isn't it the JOB OF GOVERNMENT to provide fire protection?

so why doesn't EVERY TOWN EVERYWHERE have it's own fire department, or at least one that adequately covers it?

because there is no money to provide UNIVERSAL FIRE PROTECTION.

 isn't it the JOB OF GOVERNMENT to provide for the common defense?

so, why can't we be DEFENDED against criminals?

because the state doesn't have the funds to provide UNIVERSAL DEFENSE AGAINST CRIMINALS.

that's also why the framers put such importance on SELF DEFENSE.

along with SELF SUFFIENCY and SELF MOTIVATION. right up there with PERSONAL INITIATIVE.

social programs that reward the criminal and those who will not work tend to rob people of those traits.

crazycajun:

 i'd be interested to hear what democrats think the job of government is, and why they think that it is wrong for the people to try and do that job for themselves?

for example,

is it the JOB OF GOVERNMENT to provide for the poor?

<before the government started providing for the poor, there were FEWER POOR. now that everyone who DOESN'T WANT TO WORK is guaranteed a check, the numbers of poor have skyrocketed. perhaps the government should get out of the business of providing for the poor. it's a LOSING PROPOSITION. EITHER THAT, or the people should hold the government responsible to make providing for the poor PROFITABLE so it pays for itself. i'm personally tired of paying exhorbitant amounts of my money to watch some welfare queen buy a shopping cart full of steaks with her welfare checks.>

is it the JOB OF GOVERNMENT to protect us from being offended?

<absolutely not., but those that offend easily want the iron fist of government involved in every aspect of their lives so that they never have to be offended again. it's not the government's job to keep you from being offended. it's YOUR job. get to it.>

is it the JOB OF GOVERNMENT to educate our children?

before the government started educating our children, they could read and write at higher levels than they can now. it seems that an ILLITERATE SOCIETY was better at teaching it's children to read, write, "cypher", and THINK than we do today. back then, if a person couldn't read, he wasn't given a diploma. no matter HOW many years he sat in the classroom. >

is it the JOB OF GOVERNMENT to make you happy?

<again, absolutely not, but you wouldn't know that looking at the democrats in washington. they just spent another couple of TRILLION dollars expanding healthcare. shrillary must be dancing in the aisles.>

is it the JOB OF GOVERNMENT to provide you a job?

<no, it's the job of government to stand back and let the business sector do it's thing, then wait for them to pay the taxes on all the money they earn.>

 

on a side note...

the stimulus package won't work here just like it didn't work in england, france, or germany. all countries the democrats want us to emulate.

if it didn't work there, in the pinnacle of democratic heaven, then why do you think it will work here? 

 if it IS the job of government to provide us jobs... they'd better hurry...

246,000 of us are already out of work.

she'd better be paying UNION WAGES...

 most democrats would agree that it IS the job of government to educate our children.

let's see how that's working out, shall we?

let's pick on detroit, the bastion of the democratic educational system. the gem of the public schools...

sort of...

looking at 11th graders, comparing detroit to the state average of performance in public schools.

in reading... 36% were at or above proficiency, state average... 62%.

in social studies... 56% were at or above proficiency, state average... 80%

in science... 23% were at or above proficiency... state average...57%.

writing... 17%   state average... 41%.

math... 14%... state average... 46%.

perhaps it's because there are too many students per teacher, and they don't get to 'really teach'.

nope...

students per teacher in detroit is 19. the state average is 21.

that's not it...

some have called me a racist.. let's see how detroit's ethnicity stacks up to the state average.

89% of detroit students are african american... the state average is 20%.

it COULD be that those students just don't go to class...

attendance is at 85% in detroit schools, the state average is 95%.

it CAN'T be because we don't spend enough per student...

detroit schools spend $10,576.00 per student per year. (a VERY NICE PRIVATE EDUCATION COSTS LESS) the state average is $8,561.00

let's see...

spending MORE... doing LESS... is this what we can expect of the democrat majority nationwide????

remember, detroit is a haven for liberal democrats and teacher's union cronies. they LOVE detroit. so,why can't detroit schools perform with everything going for them?

you tell me.

 There's a consensus that government should ensure that every child gets an education, and a general willingness to pay for it. That won't change, but what has been changing is the belief that this necessarily means government-run schools.

 well said.

the job of government IS NOT in my opinion to educate everyone. it's the job of the PARENTS to educate their children.

if it's done with the parent's money BEFORE OR AFTER THEY PAY THEIR TAXES, IT MATTERS NOT.

i'd personally rather it be done BEFORE taxes.  government wants too much control over what they percieve that they are paying for.

 it is not the job of government to protect people from themselves.

it is not the job of government to provide liberals with a smoke free bar.

it is not the job of government to mandate anything except compliance with just laws, payment of fair taxes for necessary services, and citizenship.

if you need help above and beyond that. ask your neighbors. if you have, and have been a good neighbor, help will surely come.

this system USES SOCIETY to solve societal problems without using SOCIALISM to solve societal problems.

you'll be surprised how many people you get to come to a barn raising if you are willing to work helping put up the barn.

So far it looks like the crazycajun is having a wonderful time playing with himself in this thread -- 12 out of the first 15 posts, including the thread opener.

Fruitcakes always feel most comfortable in their own silly little LaLa Lands.

I think we have just witnessed cajunbation.

Not a pretty sight.

jmangan:

I think we have just witnessed cajunbation.

Not a pretty sight.

 once again. you think wrong.

i knew you had something sexual for me... now i'm sure of it.

 and i started the thread.

i set the premise.

i transmit the message.

don't like it... don't log on.

crazycajun:

i started the thread.

i set the premise.

i transmit the message.

And I think your hilarious.

 no.. you think i'm ATTRACTIVE. that's why you keep posting the things you do.

kind of creeps me out the way you dote on my every word, but that is the price of fame.

My my. Do you also have homophobia to go along with all your other fears? May I suggest more coffee breaks with your psychoanalyst friend.

 not homophobia. simply a different sexual orientation than you. i'm hetero. you are not.

no fear, just dislike. you should really look into the difference.

you blame any dislike on fear, yet you say you fear nothing.

why haven't the democrats been able to legitimize homosexual marriages and 'unmarried adoption'?

it should be easy if the general public is not opposed to it.

you seem to be having a lot of trouble accomplishing what you say you democrats are for.

even your fellow democrats don't agree. why is that?

why must you pass a law to allow something that you say the majority of the people want?

now, if it IS the job of government to dictate lifestyle, and you cannot make a lifestyle choice without the help of nanny government, then i, as your nanny, suggest you try the 'one man and one woman' thing. it has all of the benefits you guys are looking for, and only a few drawbacks.

crazycajun:

 not homophobia. simply a different sexual orientation than you.

So you're a flaming homosexual, eh?

I thought so.  You sure have a crush on ol' jmangan.

I'll bet you have a lot of sweet dreams about him in your twisted little LaLa Land.

 i'd say HE has the hots for me...

in fact, i HAVE said that.

looks like YOU have the hots for me too...

no wonder your side is ALL FOR HOMOSEXUAL ADOPTION. you have already adopted homosexuality as your preferred way of life.

it's a pity that the gays won't have you.

crazycajun:

 i'd say HE has the hots for me...

in fact, i HAVE said that.

Yeah.  But we all know you and the truth don't occupy the same space, or dimension.

And it's hard to miss that you are the one doing all the heavy breathing.  I'm betting you enjoy getting spanked here by all the men.

Have a nice day fantacizing about men in your twisted up little LaLa Land, cwazyboy.

 oh... you wanna SPANK ME NOW???

how kinky...

does your boyfriend know you're out catting around?

crazycajun:

 oh... you wanna SPANK ME NOW???

Nah.  But you keep coming back and begging for it.

Do your boyfriends know you are out catting around on them?

Have a nice day in your twisted little LaLa Land fantasizing about real men spanking you, cwazy. 

 you said, spanked by ALL the men.. that includes YOU, unless you don't consider yourself a man. (gender confusion???)

you seem to be cueing up for sex with me...\

first it was 'CAJUNBATION', where you fantasized about what i do with myself...

now this...

really quite a recurrent theme with you, isn't it?

it's nice to think that you believe all the other men here are gay too.

i'm sure that little statement has won you a lot of friends and supporters.

i wonder if trueblue and jman agree with your assessment of them?

My, my, my, crazycajun!  You do seem to be getting all excited. Must be your little homones are just a ragin'.

Have a nice day in your twisted up little LaLa Land, crazy.

 not at all. just trying not to spill too much coffee from all the laughter around here.

it must be tough typing with sticky fingers...

by the way...

doc says 'HI'.

crazycajun:

it must be tough typing with sticky fingers...

You'd be the one to know.

 wasn't it you that brought up CAJUNBATION? is that man always in your thoughts? or is it only when you are awake? perhaps your obsession with him comes from something other than o.c.d.

uber-liberal:

 wasn't it you that brought up CAJUNBATION? is that man always in your thoughts? or is it only when you are awake? perhaps your obsession with him comes from something other than o.c.d.

If you are addressing me, the answer is, no, to every one of your snide assertions.

I did not coin the word, "cajunbation."  Wish I had, though, because it very well describes crazycajun’s posting on this forum. 

The word was coined by another poster after I noted that crazycajun had posted 12 out of the first 15 posts in this thread.

By the way, the sexual talk was started by crazycajun, himself, with a post Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 9:00 pm, that said:

i knew you had something sexual for me... now i'm sure of it.

SaneMichigander:

So far it looks like the crazycajun is having a wonderful time playing with himself in this thread -- 12 out of the first 15 posts, including the thread opener.

Fruitcakes always feel most comfortable in their own silly little LaLa Lands.

 i think the term PLAYING WITH HIMSELF is what he was talking about. jman, your alter-ego invented the term CAJUNBATION, you gave him the idea. kind of weird of you to sit there and imagine another man playing with himself for your enjoyment, isn't it?

SaneMichigander:

So far it looks like the crazycajun is having a wonderful time playing with himself in this thread -- 12 out of the first 15 posts, including the thread opener.

Fruitcakes always feel most comfortable in their own silly little LaLa Lands.

 not for nothing... the very first post you made on this thread was OFF TOPIC. and a personal attack. and a sexual reference. at least "j" attempts to have a conversation.

There is no room for "conversation" with a person who spends his time in rapt "conversation" with himself.

 you talk to him daily... that's conversation. all you have to do is type your thoughts and press send. you don't have to agree with him, and he doesn't have to agree with you. i don't agree with you, and nothing i type keeps you from typing what you think on this site. as for having 'no room for "conversation", that is a prejudice that YOU have, not the rest of the world.

i see you as a bitter person, mad at the world and taking out his frustrations with the people you elected on the one person who shows you up as wrong continually. you hate that cajun reminds you that the 'great hope of michigan' turned out to be an abject failure. you also hate to think back on all that you were promised and never were given.

you also hate that you occasionally find yourself in the position of having to defend your choices, even though you privately admit to yourself that those choices were, in the end, wrong. i know this because i, too was a bitter liberal once. but i got over it.

you also fail to remember that your conversation is, and should be, with US, the state of michigan. not with just cajun. if it is just with cajun, you are just here to fight him, not to fight to make michigan better.  

SaneMichigander:

There is no room for "conversation" with a person who spends his time in rapt "conversation" with himself.

 not for nothing, if there is no room for conversation with a person who spends his time in rapt conversation with himself, maybe there is no room for conversation with you.

uber-liberal:

not for nothing, if there is no room for conversation with a person who spends his time in rapt conversation with himself, maybe there is no room for conversation with you.

Wow!  Now there's a clever zinger for you.  

I tend not to answer myself.  But your sock puppet master does.  From the looks of this thread you have some of the same habits crazycajun does along the line of playing with yourself.  (Oh, I forgot.  You read that as a sexual reference.  You have a dirty mind.)