Michigan Votes Forum

 Republicans wave the flag, wear flag lapel pins, claim to "love America".
How can ANYONE exhibiting these characteristics do the following...

#1 Attempt to eliminate Social Security.

#2 Succeed in elimination of Student aid and Student loans for education.

#3 Succeed in "gutting" Americas social services (Unemployment, SSI, Disability,Food stamps)

#4 Attempt to turn public roads, highways and bridges into private toll roads.

#5 Claim to spread "freedom and democracy" everywhere EXCEPT the USA.

#6 Enact "business friendly" laws which actually mean "exploit" hard working Americans.

#7 Claim that Universal health care for Iraqis and Israelis is "sound policy" but Universal health care for Americans is... SOCIALISM.

#8 Claim that Republican debt is somehow better for the country than Democratic surplus.

#9 Cut funding and benefits of Veterans.

#10.... Destroyed the American economy by intentional deciet or accidental stupidity.

So the question remains .."Why do Republicans, who claim to love America, clearly hate Americans?"

US ARMY VET

TrueBlue:

 Republicans wave the flag, wear flag lapel pins, claim to "love America".
How can ANYONE exhibiting these characteristics do the following...

#1 Attempt to eliminate Social Security.

<because it's a wasteful program that should be eliminated. it spends more than it takes in and promotes a 'welfare mentality'. you just hate it because it is a cut of a 'social program' that you cannot live without. before social security, people SAVED THEIR OWN MONEY for retirement, and lived to tell about it.>

#2 Succeed in elimination of Student aid and Student loans for education.

<which immediately IMPROVED the way student loans are gotten. by the way, the loans that were scrapped were hardly being used and even less often being paid back.>

#3 Succeed in "gutting" Americas social services (Unemployment, SSI, Disability,Food stamps)

<which succeeded in getting those americans ON those programs OFF of those programs and BACK TO WORK. now, how can you, as a champion for 'THE WORKER' think that is a bad idea?>

#4 Attempt to turn public roads, highways and bridges into private toll roads.

<oh, you mean the roads that PRIVATE CITIZENS were CHARGED FOR by states, counties and local governments AFTER  being paid for by our taxes??? THOSE ROADS???>

#5 Claim to spread "freedom and democracy" everywhere EXCEPT the USA.

<i guess it's better than if we SPREAD SOCIALISM THROUGHOUT THE WORLD, like russia and china tried to do.>

#6 Enact "business friendly" laws which actually mean "exploit" hard working Americans.

<if by EXPLOIT you mean EMPLOY...>

#7 Claim that Universal health care for Iraqis and Israelis is "sound policy" but Universal health care for Americans is... SOCIALISM.

<no one offered UNIVERSAL health care, only HUMANITARIAN AID. and universal healthcare IS socialist.>

#8 Claim that Republican debt is somehow better for the country than Democratic surplus.

<that makes it BETTER than the FORTY PLUS YEARS OF DEMOCRAT DEBT that the REPUBLICANS PAID OFF.>

#9 Cut funding and benefits of Veterans.

<veteran funding is higher now than it ever was in history, how do you describe THAT as a cut?>

#10.... Destroyed the American economy by intentional deciet or accidental stupidity.

<it wasn't government policy that caused the banks and auto companies to fail. in fact, it was the FAILURE OF SOME LONG STANDING DEMOCRAT POLICIES that allowed this kind of stuff to go on for SO LONG. >

So the question remains .."Why do Republicans, who claim to love America, clearly hate Americans?"

<the answer is... we DO love america, and we DON'T hate amerians. now prove that what you say is true. if you can.>
US ARMY VET

 

 

 If you noticed I didnt respond to you, because your response was a joke.

Its wrong, just like you are all the time.

As I've said before....your not worth the time because you lack the education to understand.

Now go and be a nice prison guard collecting a decent wage, that  the republicans YOU vote for would take away from you by PRIVATIZING your job and eliminating your benefits.

LOL .

crazycajun:

and i notice that you have stopped posting to several threads on this site, could it be that you feel that you have LOST those discussions?

There is no win or lose in these discussions cajun. There are expressions of opinions. Because you have unlimited time to sit at your computer and rant on about your bankrupt ideology doesn't mean you win anything. Getting the last word in isn't winning. Because I don't answer your rants doesn't mean I lost the argument. It means I have more important things to do.

Getting your party and representatives in office is winning. At this time in our state and our nation, I am winning, and you are losing. That is an undeniable fact, even by your warped reasoning. This discussion forum is important to you. Winning elections is important to me.

 

 then you'd better get TRUEBLUE in line.. he's voting for my side.

 your side won the last two gubernatorial elections in michigan, but they lost the war on unemployment, crime, jobs, taxes, worker flight, educational quality, and general quality of life.

so much for winning elections. let's see how your other candidates are doing. 

Don't need him, check the results. Democratic govenor, state house, democratic president, house and senate.

The tide has turned my man. Change has come. We elected a Democratic state rep in my district, for his second term, for the first time in 84 years. Your ideology is debunked. Tax cuts for the wealthy, perpetual war, unregulated capitolism, abuse of the environment, secret prisons and torture, ignoring the needs of the poor, and lying to the American people is no longer business as usual. You may not like it, but the voters have spoken. Whether you or blue voted for change is irrelevant. It's here.

 That is correct. I could not vote for Obama personally, but between Obama and McCain.  I am glad O-man won.

 so why, trueblue, could you NOT VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRAT?

YOU VOTED FOR THE REPUBLICAN.

you show MUCH LOVE FOR THE REPUBLICAN IN THE VOTING BOOTH.

but NONE on the street.

it must be tough to keep secret lovers.

your democrat governor and senate haven't saved this state.

when are they going to start?

Irony. Republicans create the mess, then critisize democrats for not fixing it fast enough.

 

 she's HAD two terms to do it... how many does she need?

she only had two to begin with at most. pity she didn't start sooner.

if she couldn't deliver on her campaign promises, she shouldn't have made them.

if she couldn't resist raising taxes, only to put is into a deeper mess than we were in before, she should have stayed home.

now, she has till the end of her term as governor to fix the problems like she said she would.

if she doesn't, i'll know that what you are saying about democrats being superior is FALSE.

 

I really doubt that you'll know any more than you think you know now. Your too stuck on ideology.

I didn't say democrats were superior. I said they should not be blamed for not fixing the mess republicans made fast enough to suit you.

Democrats are going to have their chance to fix this mess now, but understand it is a big mess. And don't lose sight of who created this mess to begin with.

If you think we should give tax cuts and deregulate, the very actions that have allowed our economy to disentigrate, your hopeless.

As for how many terms Granholm needs, I say this one. She has a friend in the White House now. If the democrats haven't shown us the way out of the wilderness by 2010, the voters will look for other saviors. Some improvement must be seen by then.

But I don't expect you'll be happy with any results, other than complete anarchy.

jmangan:

I really doubt that you'll know any more than you think you know now. Your too stuck on ideology.

<no, i'm stuck on who ruined michigan. michigan was in bad shape before, but is NOW in WORSE shape. granholm didn't do SEVERAL THINGS that she COULD HAVE to make our situation better. the first of which is to GET RID OF REDICULOUS FEES that do nothing but aggravate the current financial situation. she COULD HAVE forced her departments to do MORE with LESS, but she didn't. instead she RAISED TAXES, AND SHUFFLED THE MONEY AROUND.>

I didn't say democrats were superior. I said they should not be blamed for not fixing the mess republicans made fast enough to suit you.

<and i said that granholm had better get started. she only has a few more months to perform. by the way, the way i see it, and a lot of other people see it too, is that she has LOST GROUND in her fight to bring us back to prosperity.>

Democrats are going to have their chance to fix this mess now, but understand it is a big mess. And don't lose sight of who created this mess to begin with.

<okay, i won't lose sight of the DEMOCRAT LEGISLATORS who proposed silly programs instead of REAL REFORM.>

If you think we should give tax cuts and deregulate, the very actions that have allowed our economy to disentigrate, your hopeless.

<if you think we should GIVE TAX INCREASES, the very actions which have sent this state down the toilet. you are worthy of the name DEMOCRAT. how can trying to take more money from people who are not working to pay for people who are not working bring us back to prosperity?>

As for how many terms Granholm needs, I say this one. She has a friend in the White House now. If the democrats haven't shown us the way out of the wilderness by 2010, the voters will look for other saviors.

<yes they will, and those SAVIORS will be republicans. the people are tired of democrats in this state not producing. and the people are quickly getting tired of democrat shenanigans on the national level. the president is NO FRIEND of our auto industry. you just wait to find that out for yourself.>

 Some improvement must be seen by then.

<finish your sentence... "some improvement must be seen by then, or the wicked republicans will win the majority back.>

But I don't expect you'll be happy with any results, other than complete anarchy.

<no,not complete anarchy, but A LOT LESS GOVERNMENT would suit me just fine.>

 

 by the way, you'd better get the democrats in the legislature's heads out of the sand quickly to give the governor some REAL changes if we are to even BE a state in two years. and whatever they give her has to pass muster of the OBSTRUCTIONISTS IN THE HOUSE.

TELL YOU WHAT... if democrats don't get positive results by 2010, then you need to vote republican and really fix this mess.

 tell me...

how did bush cutting taxes put us in this financial crisis? didn't you say that ENGLER ruined this state? engler went out when bush came in, didn't he? so, according to you...

granholm should have had an easy time of fixing this state, because she had control of both houses and the mansion.

what exactly did bush do to ruin this state?

did he sign nafta? NO. bill clinton did. THAT sent jobs scurrying over the border.

did engler sign nafta? NO.

did engler ENDORSE nafta? it really doesn't matter. he got it anyway.

all the democrats were up in arms about it, but they all supported it anyway. up to and including our governor.

boy were THEY surprised when the exact same thing the republicans SAID would happen ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

NAFTA more than anything else, has put this state to ruin.

i'm sure you'll disagree, but i believe that history is on my side.

 one more thing..

why hasn't the ALL POWERFUL UNION flexed it's muscle and FORCED the big three to bring jobs back to this country from off-shore?

gm has had plants in mexico for decades. since the early fifties. (you remember THOSE, don't you?)

ford has been stamping sheet metal in mexico since 1946. chrysler bought an entire city in mexico to make into a production plant in 1966. the big three have been EXPORTING JOBS for decades, and your ALL POWERFUL UNIONS have been mute on the subject. not a word from them to stop this shipping of OUR JOBS over our borders.

why can't the unions just FORCE the big three to stay afloat?

why can't the unions just FORCE them to spend the bail-out money responsibly?

because the unions DON'T WANT TO. they only want to get their political contributions.

they don't care about the workers, they haven't since they pay scale went over fifty dollars an hour. as long as you pay your dues, and don't yell too loud, they are just fine with the way things are now.

tell me how the unions are going to bring michigan back to prosperity.

Your ignorance about unions is astonishing. For someone to be so against something they know so little about is incredulous. You've got to be kidding, right? I mean, no one could be that ignorant.

The auto companies are international corporations. The union doesn't want them to only build autos in the US. The unions want free and fair trade. And to make a statement that they don't care about the workers is no more than your uninformed opinion. There is a mountain of evidence to the contrary. Even the most right wing , conservative republican would not support that statement, not honestly. Unions are most accused of caring too much about the workers, and not enough about business.

If you continue to make outrageous statements cajun, your credibility will suffer, even more than it has. You may fill this forum with your entries, (that seems to be your goal), but minds aren't changed by vitriol and ranting, their changed by reasoning and insight, supplied by the application of intelligence and research. If only your comments were all that was on this forum, you have failed. You will be a voice crying in the wilderness.Think about that.

jmangan:

Your ignorance about unions is astonishing. For someone to be so against something they know so little about is incredulous. You've got to be kidding, right? I mean, no one could be that ignorant.

<oh, i don't know... YOU claim bush ruined michigan. how could he? he didn't raise taxes here.>

The auto companies are international corporations. The union doesn't want them to only build autos in the US. The unions want free and fair trade.

<REALLY???? so why is there no union in mexico? why is there no union in central america? or france? or england? or brazil? the unions want free and fair trade about as much as i want my ex wife back.>

 And to make a statement that they don't care about the workers is no more than your uninformed opinion.

<so why aren't they DOING ANYTHING for the workers who are about to be out of a job? of course you realize that if either company, or companies (the big three) default on their 'loans' that the united states government OWNS THE COMPANIES. LOCK, STOCK, AND BARREL?>

There is a mountain of evidence to the contrary.

<okay, let's see what the unions are doing to preserve jobs in michigan. SHOW ME.>

 Even the most right wing , conservative republican would not support that statement, not honestly. Unions are most accused of caring too much about the workers, and not enough about business.

<so why do they spend thirty percent of their income (union dues) on electing democrats and ONLY democrats? whether the rank and file want them to or not.>

If you continue to make outrageous statements cajun, your credibility will suffer, even more than it has.

<REALLY???? you act as if i care about what you think of my credibility. you seem to be working a union job after living for almost seventy years, IF you are not lying about how old you are. can you truly say, in this day and age, that you are better off NOW than you were eight years ago? I AM, but then again, my company is NOT  based in michigan. >

 You may fill this forum with your entries, (that seems to be your goal), but minds aren't changed by vitriol and ranting, their changed by reasoning and insight, supplied by the application of intelligence and research. If only your comments were all that was on this forum, you have failed. You will be a voice crying in the wilderness.Think about that.

<now THAT was a bunch of nonsense... it seems that you are peeved at my posts. perhaps because they are filled with TRUTH. you STILL haven't proven me wrong. you have just SAID i'm wrong. it's one thing to SAY it, and a 'whole nuther' to PROVE IT.>

 

FACE FACTS...

fact... the state of michigan is in one of the worst financial states in the nation. if not THE worst.

fact... the state of michigan is losing HUNDREDS OF JOBS EVERY DAY.

fact... the state of michigan is taxing business that remain BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, and it doesn't seem to be enough.

fact... the state of michigan needs tax relief if it is to survive these times. more money needs to be in the hands of the citizens, not the coffers of the state.

fact... the unions are powerless to effect the current events in any significant way. TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS will have been wasted by members just as soon as the big three shut down and 'BIG BROTHER' MOTORS opens it's doors.

fact... when the auto industry is nationalized, there won't be any union representation in the shop.  

 

 you speak of the republican love of america as if it is a disdainful thing.

republicans love america.

democrats and muslim extremists love THEIR IDEA OF WHAT AMERICA SHOULD BE.

they love what america COULD be if they only had a little more power, a little more influence, a little more control, a little more money.

muslim extremists are more than willing to strap on a bomb and kill innocents to get that influence, control, and money. liberal extremists are just now reaching that point in their political ideology.

muslim extremists are willing to make whatever sacrifice gladly to reach the goal, whether it is an effective sacrifice or not.

liberal extremists are (so far) only willing to have the "filthy rich" sacrifice.

 

 

Together with the GOP organization and its satellite think tanks and advocacy groups, this network of fiercely partisan outlets--such as the Washington Times, the Wall Street Journal editorial page and conservative talk-radio shows like Rush Limbaugh's--forms a highly effective right-wing echo chamber where GOP-friendly news stories can be promoted, repeated and amplified.

 Liberals............do not enter:  http://mpgleader.com/Home_Page.html

Democrats love their nation because...................there is "Free-Stuff" available. One problem! The gravy train has run its course and there is No MO' money!.......... http://moonbattery.com/?p=10789

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No surprise to us Republicans and actually no surprise for liberals from the Party of Food Stamps! ....................... http://therealrevo.com/blog/?p=72714