Michigan Votes Forum

Introduced in the Senate on March 4, 2008

Click here to view bill details.

Though I am prolife except where mother's health is at stake, this legislation seeks to stir up trouble more than help someone in trouble. Leave the roadways of Michigan out of this debate, and prevent the state from doing something to add to the distraction of its drivers.

A license plate is not the place to conduct a religious and moral discussion.

What is religious about thinking that it is wrong to kill babies? You folks don't think I should have a "choice" about wether or not to carry a gun but you need that "choice" when deciding to kill or not to kill your baby? What a sick society you libs are creating. And you wonder why our children don't value life as much as they should when they know that if mommy had decided that a kid would be too much of an inconvience right now they could have ended up in the dumster at some planned parenthood clinic.

You must remember that it is a religious concept that defines when an embryo becomes a viable individual. Some religions define it as the moment of conception. Some religions define it as the moment of delivery and separation from the mother. Some religions define it as the moment when the fetus is capable of living outside the womb. To a scientist, any living cell is "alive". However, that does not make it a "life". I do not wish to argue about your concept of when the fetus is a "baby". But you can easily see that it is, indeed, a religious concept.

when it comes out of the birth canal and has a pair of scissors plunged into it's head? medically known as: intact dilation and extraction (also referred to as IDX and intrauterine cranial decompression) and dilation and evacuation (D&E), had the sensation on their little feet of a Doctor’s tender touch, just prior to the jolt of having a surgical instrument jammed into the back of their little heads.

Your comment is off-topic. The question is not whether IDX is acceptable or moral. It is whether "choose life" is a religio-political statement. As an analogy, perhaps we should have a license plate that says "hunting is immoral". After all, there are some hunters who do immoral things. (BTW, I support responsible hunting). You are supporting an overly generalized concept, "anti-abortion" with a very specific and rare procedure, IDX

I believe that there is a place for this discussion. However, funding ideological agendas through State license fees is NOT the place. This sets a poor precedent. What will we have next, the "Aryan Youth" License plate, with proceeds funding home-schooled nazis?

concept. but you liberals wouldn't understand that. you liberals say it's not 'a life' until it votes democrat.

we wouldn't be fighting so hard against them. why do you NEED to have IDX's performed anyway? what is the MEDICAL NEED for them. we have asked for the answer to this question for months, no one has answered. liberals keep saying it's a MEDICAL NECESSITY that it be performed, but they won't say what the condition is that requires an IDX to 'cure' it. there must be one, THOUSANDS of these proceedures are performed yearly. their MUST be a reason for it. i'd hate to think it's being performed JUST FOR FUN by the people who are against big eyed animals suffering in traps.

home schooling. i wonder why? i wonder which is worse... a HOME SCHOOLED NAZI or a publicly educated bolshevik?

I wasn't aware of the new amendment that there is now NO separation of church and state. We now give people a choice to fund religiously motivated politics? Strangely enough, I thought that Michigan was still in the U.S. where abortion is legal. I must have slept for 80 years last night rather than 8 hours. We torture and kill millions of LIVING, breathing animals daily, but have a huge movement of people who are out to save a blob of cells... SERENITY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is nothing wrong with home-schooling. However, there are many things wrong with Nazis, whether they are schooled publicly or privately. Would you to buy a license plate supporting them for a small fee?

So, you are a member of the only moral religion in the world. Congratulations. But in this country, there is a separation of Church and State. You may view this as purely moral, but your moral code comes directly from your religious indoctrination. Good luck with that lobotomy.

I wasn't aware that this legislation requires IDX. Why are you debating it here? Does the license plate read, "Choose IDX"? Please find something productive to do.

It's hard for even the most committed baby killer to defend this stuff.

Show me where in the constitution there is anything about "But in this country, there is a separation of Church and State." I seem to remember something about the state is not allowed to mandate a religion. We still have God given rights. the writers put that in there so that the state can't take them. "but your moral code comes directly from your religious indoctrination." Wrong again angry little liberal. I'm not particularly religious and never was but still have morals that tell me that it is wrong to kill babies.

that a person that thinks it is wrong to kill a baby is the same as a nazi? It might be time for all you libs/socialists abortion supporters to find a little of that tolerance you keep preaching about. What difference does it make if someone wants to state their opinion on a plate and make the imperial state government a few bucks in the process.

is enforcing a little religion called ATHEISM. the one thing the 'state' shall not do is become run by a religion, even atheism. separating church from state makes atheism the state religion. congrats. constitution violated.

I make no direct comparison between Nazis and Anti-Abortion groups. My point is that it is clear that Nazis have a political agenda. I am asking you whether you believe that it is acceptable for the State to fund Nazi education, as an example. Once you open the door to State financing of political agendas and editorial opinions, anything goes. If you want your opinion on your car, buy a bumper sticker. Don't ask the State to help you fund it. To address your liberal use of assumptions, it is my opinion that the debate over abortion is valuable and worthy of our time. Whether I agree with your neo-lithic reasoning or not, I most definitely see the value of having the conversation in the public sphere.

There is NO reference to God-given rights in the Constitution. That is in the Declaration of Independence. You might want to do some home work before making such an ignorant comment. In the First amendment to the Constitution, it is stated that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...." Together with the Free Exercise Clause, ("...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"). By promoting a religion through government, (license plate fees supporting a political agenda), the bill is violating this clause. I agree with you that it is immoral to kill babies. You have the right to put that on bumper stickers all over your car if you wish. However, the State does not have the authority to support religiously motivated anti-abortion groups.

just in case you missed it. atheism is a religion. removing all religion from state and federal government fosters atheism and makes it, in fact, the state, and national religion. thus, constitution violated. the state must be tolerant of religion, not suppressive of it. to do so would be to foster atheism as our national religion. forcing us to pray at the altar of 'secular humanism'.

fund political agendas. pro democrat, pro union, pro communist, anti-american, you name the leftist agenda, the schools, and the state, teaches it.

Your reply is a sad testament to the sorry state of education. Atheism means, quite literally, without theism. This word is a description of anyone who does not believe in a theistic God. Atheism can not be a religion, by any definition, because it implies a lack of belief. Not a positive statement of belief. By your definition, my religion could be a-unicornism, because I do not believe in unicorns. Do you believe that the State is a sponsor of a-unicornism? How about a-ogreism? a-Zeusism? I suggest that you think a little about your replies before you post. Peace

What makes you think I hate home schooling? I don't "hate" anything. Home schooling is great.

Very dramatic. But not very persuasive. Atheism is not a religion. See previous post. You are free to practice whatever form of superstition you wish. Why do you hate atheists so much?

I disagree with you. But, somehow, I think your mind is already made up.

you have (unintentionally) hit the nail on the head. the constitution forbids the congress from making ANY laws pertaining to religion, or the free exercise thereof. prayer is allowed, even encouraged, before many government functions, including our legislature's sessions. religion is an important part of life, but it, by itself, doesn't make anyone 'more important' than anyone else. but taking religion away makes the religious LESS IMPORTANT than 'everyone else'. governments happily give tax exempt status to any religion claiming to be a religion, including the atheists. taoists are athiests, as are some spiritualists. some religions don't revere a 'GOD' so much as a principle. some believe in MANY Gods. even muslims will tell you that MUHAMMED was a PROPHET. so, is it the state's job to QUASH religion? or to simply stay mute about it, allowing all to freely exercise religion as they choose? why would you take away the freedom to CHOOSE what is on your license plate? as long as the numbers are readable, and the sticker is current, it matters not what else is printed on it.

they are a tax exempt church according to the state of michigan, and the federal tax record. how can you be a church (and tax exempt) if you are not, in fact, a religion?

against religion?

I read once that, "atheism is a religion, like 'not collecting stamps' is a hobby" Do you understand what I am trying to communicate?

I am not against religion. In fact, I am a very active member of a protestant church. I am against State sponsored religion.

It is not so much what is printed on the plate that I find objectionable. It is that the Bill requires that a portion of the proceeds be given to anti-abortion family planning groups. If the proceeds were given to ANY family planning groups, I would find it Constitutionally acceptable. However, the Bill language is quite specific on who should receive the funds.

I find this hard to believe. Can you back that up? Please give me a source.

is often guided by religious beliefs, or the lack of them. the state should remain mute and allow the citizens to exercise their rights as they see fit, with no interference. it doesn't matter to the state if the money goes to bingo for mephistopholes, as long as it's handled accurately, and in a timely manner. why do you hate religion so?

michigan know how to spell GOOGLE???? LOOK IT UP FOR YOURSELF.

athiests.org if you want a real laugh... by the way, the government also paid millions over the years to the american communist party, adn the american nazi party, both thriving her and now.

having a convention on the 18th (the day after st. patrick's day, st. joseph's day) in order to make plans to ensure the total and complete separation of church and state. look them up too. they are a tax exempt organization.

GODLESS AMERICAN'S POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE? they are also tax exempt. it seems that for a group that denies it is a religion, it sure likes to reap the benefits of BEING A RELIGION. ah.. tax free status... ain't america wonderful???

I did Google it. There is no registered religion called, "atheism".