Michigan Votes Forum

I think the answer lies in your sentence, "Why not left those folks leave over the next few years by normal attrition..." "Next few years" won't work. The state needs the money now. The incentive hopefully inspires people to retire who... ...are eligible now......those who are close to eligibility and wish to buy time to become eligible....workers who are eligible but can't retire because of some financial need, and the 1.75 helps them retire....if most of these workers retire, the old state-paid pension system will be a thing of the past because these workers will be gone. Talk about saving money!!!

Most people who complain about overpaid and underworked state employees have no idea what most of us do or what we make. As a worker in the Mental Health Department for over 30 years, I have worked 6 days in a row, worked most weekends and Holidays, worked different shifts and suffered through several shifts of mandatory overtime when there were insufficient workers for the oncoming shift. Out hourly wages have lagged behind the private sector for most of my career with the state. During the 80's and 90's when wages were rising in the private sector, our wages remained stagnant, with nominal 1 or 2% raises. Now we are considered more well paid, not because out wages have increased, but due to the wages of other workers being slashed and then dropping down to my level. I have never made over $50,000, even with overtime and Holiday pay. My base wage is in the mid $30,000 range. I have missed many family functions such as weddings and reunions because of having to work weekends. Christmas with my own family was seldom on Christmas, because I usually had to work. Yet state employees are spoiled? I don't think so, maybe anyone who wants to critize state workers should have applied for a state job years ago, and had the opportunity to take a job very few people wanted or could do. Now an early retirement would be welcome if you worked with me, that is if you would have lasted 30 years. Drumcoach (Jack)

If you had saleable skills you should have left years ago.

layoff the people that you don't need anymore. Maybe if more of those that feed at the public teat were booted out they would quit voting for socialists like the one running the state into the ground now.

>If you had saleable skills you should have left years ago.< The assertion by innuendo that public (state) employees do not have salable skills is absurd. Of course they have salable skills,. Their skills just happen to meet the needs of various government operations. Directing personal insults like that at state employees is mean-spirited. You and I don’t have to like government, or approve of government operations, and should feel free to criticize those things as we wish. But it is wrong-headed to bash people who are trying to make a living simply because they work for agencies (or even private business organizations) we dislike. It is every bit as wrong-headed to delight in the elimination of some government employee’s job – and livelihood – as it is to delight in the elimination of someone’s private sector job and livelihood. We can understand the necessity and the reasons why jobs are eliminated, but we never should celebrate the pain that necessity and reasons why inflict.

You said it. We deserve it.

I wasn't trying to be mean spirited, I was just wondering why you would stay in a government job if you could make more in the private sector. I was also would not delighted to see folks lose jobs but the fact of the matter is that most of the government employees vote for the folks that cause jobs to be lost. The dems that they keep voting in to protect their government jobs are killing private business. Trying to run a business here is a joke, everyday they want to tell me how to run my business. The problem is is that they have never ran a business and regard us that do as the ewil rich to be plundered from. If we don't wake up soon there won't be a Michigan. It has just about become a banana republic already.

Your "clarification" really isn't. It is a disingenuous disclaimer followed immediately with a bunch of excuse making for the personal slashes you take at public (state) employees. As stated before, you and I don't have to like or approve of government, or government agencies, and we should feel to voice our criticisms of the institutions. I might add, also, that we should feel free to voice our criticisms of the policy-makers who set the direction for those institutions -- that would be elected officials and high-level political appointees. But we ought refrain from translating our disapproval of the institution into personal criticism directed at the general run of its employees in broad-brush fashion. That is just mean-spirited, and it is not at all constructive.

than I meant. The state is broken. It is being destroyed by taxes, fees, regulations, too much government and a general nannyism that a vast majority of government workers want more of. When the government, that creates nothing, sells nothing, improves nothing becomes your largest employer there is a problem.

I am not reading more into what you say than what you mean. You clearly mean to say that state government workers are to blame for the state's fiscal and economic problems. You have repeated that assertion in several different ways, directly and otherwise. Your blaming is misplaced. Government employees are not resoponsible for having created the bureaucracy within which they work. That is like blaming assembly line workers for the terrible marketing and manufacturing policy decisions that have put the Big Three automakers on the ropes. If you wish to criticize, hang it opn the elected policy-makers in the legislative and executive branches of government, and their political appoiuntee operatives. It is patently unfair and unjust to criticize and blame the ordinary government worker for simply doing a job in echange for a paycheck, just like any ordinary private sector emplotyee does.

"You clearly mean to say that state government workers are to blame for the state's fiscal and economic problems" That is not what I said at all. I said that the government workers are a big part of who vote the big government/more government jobs/handout folks into office. Please don't twist my words. "If you wish to criticize, hang it opn the elected policy-makers in the legislative and executive branches of government, and their political appoiuntee operatives." You Betcha, and the folks that vote them in aren't innocent. And these government workers almost always vote for the dem/socialist that promises more of the same. "It is patently unfair and unjust to criticize and blame the ordinary government worker for simply doing a job in echange for a paycheck, just like any ordinary private sector emplotyee does" This is where I will state an opinion..most government workers that I know stay there because it's easier than the private sector.If you work for the county on the roads you generally have about 3 people to do every job. Private business doesn't have this option because market forces would put them out of business very quickly. The government just taxes more and more until we get to where we are today. Soon we will be at the point where there are more takers than earners and just like any socialist country we will collapse. Government runs a monopoly with the iron fist of the law behind it. Private business has to compete in the real world. Let's enact a school voucher plan and see how the government does in that competition. Econ 101 would have taught you this.

For verifying exactly what I have said about your posts. You do mean to personally assail government workers. Have a nice day trying to justify your mean-spirited attitude toward working people.

I didn't hear you refute one single thing.....

You haven't shot down any of the multitude of points that he made.

Made by the state employee basher need no refutation. They are simply pointless and mean. That's all. Grow up and aim your criticisms at people who really are responsible -- have real authority over -- what you object to in government. That would be your elected representatives in the legislature and your elected executive branch officials, and their high level political appointees. Leave the working stiffs alone.

I elect folks that want smaller government, less intrusion and less of a nanny state. The ones on the government dole vote for more spending, more taxes, more regulation. it's not bashing when you state facts...you should try it sometime.

a word twisting liberal posted these words. let's look carefully at them. "It is every bit as wrong-headed to delight in the elimination of some government employee’s job – and livelihood – as it is to delight in the elimination of someone’s private sector job and livelihood. We can understand the necessity and the reasons why jobs are eliminated, but we never should celebrate the pain that necessity and reasons why inflict." liberals have eliminated private sector jobs for decades, and continue to do so on a daily basis. i thank you for labeling them for what they are, wrong headed.

If a voluntary early out is not offered, it will likely mean that many younger workers will be laid off agains their wishes with little notice due to department budget cuts. This bill might not be an ideal solution, but we are between a rock and a hard place. This presents, at worst, a lessor evil as we try to balance the budget. I would far rather see employees leave by choice than see employees with young families forced to leave!

Pride comes before the fall, hopefully, not the fall of the whole state.

First of all, I have enjoyed my job, and yes the security it provided over the years. I also believe I have made a difference in some small way with individuals I have taken care of. But now it is getting harder to keep up with the physical demands and I am looking forward to getting a part time job where I won't be required to work six days in a row, and almost every weekend. Most of the residents we still have now are very challenging individuals, several have explosive behavior issues that require they be in a setting that is safer for themselves and the public. As far as being responsible for putting the current leadership in power, I didn't vote for Granholm or many of the Democrats. I am a union member, but I vote for whom I think will be the best lawmaker, not who my union supports. As far as the sweetheart retirement deal state employees get, I would gladly trade my retirement plan for one from GM or Ford. Jack (Drumcoach)

I hope our legislators are still considering this bill, which hasn't been discussed much in the media. Obviously the budget is a mess. But if one single state employee is laid off without first offering to let old-timers leave voluntarily, I hope every rep in the state is recalled. The democrats have let us all down.

0689 is dead. The republicans who want to take the state employees' meager raise propose such a bill only to laugh as the democrats try to explain the why-nots. A waste of time and paper. Politics as usual.

what??

I am a loyal democrat and yet am distrubed by my parties vote on this issue. There comes a time to step up and lead and make the difficult decisions that we sent you to Lansing for. Bill 689 has the potential to save the State a great deal of money. New hires will come in at a lower pay rate and will be greatful for the opportunity to work for the State of Michigan. If the concern is that too many will leave at once, than adjust the formula, but pass the bill.

let's just go to the juggler on this. the bottom line is let's keep michigan going in the upward direction.[our kid's of tommorow need job's.the stat offer's good pay along with benifit's.why not open up a slot for the young by allowing old timer's a chance to retire.again their are way's to train the new young the in's and out's to doing this state job.it's a win win for everybody....

Haven't heard anything about SB 689 recently. Is it currently dying in the House? Another one to bury on 1/1/08?

You can count on it being dead if you have not contacted your Senator & Representative in legislature. My Discussions with Lansing and the initiators of the bill indicate that NOT ENOUGH STATE EMPLOYEES HAVE PRESSURED LANSING for passage. THIS MUST BE DONE AND SOON I am told or this bill WILL DIE!!! What will you do to help it pass? It is up to you!!

You are very correct not enough pressure from state employees. This bill is "still alive" and contact your Senator and Representative in the Legislature if you have any interest in this bill passing.

My legislator told me that we need to cut about $400 - $500 million from the budget in order to balance it before November. This bill could account for about 25% - 50% of that amount if passed. Passage he tells me depends on the amount of pressure from State Employees. Otherwise department cuts would have to occur.

I, for one, did write both my representitive and senator on this bill (0689). Apparently, they both opposed it when it was introduced. That would be Mr. J. Barcia and Mr. T. Brown. I want others to know who they are so maybe others can write them,too!! Come on now, you are supposed to be backing and supporting what WE want.....not Granholm!! Can't help but feel they do not have our young people's future in mind. Why not open the door for our youth to STAY HERE??!!

The others are correct. We must contact our legislative representatives. Mine are Condino and Jacobs. Both know my position of support. Also refer your Representatives to this site and the comments. Bottom line is it does save money. Also write the editor of any local papers. It needs to get press soon. Lastly, not only state employees support this move. Many of my friends from all walks of life consider this fiscally wise for our state. The threat that so many would take the offer is unfounded. Remember there is a large pay decrease if this is taken. No one gets rich and many of those eligible would not be able to take such a pay reduction. So the scare tactic of 8000 employees leaving is a non-issue. Also the fact that there would be a reduction in services is an argument with a thin curtain of deceit. The Governor, Legislature, Civil Service, and Department heads are currently working on layoff and work reduction plans. Do not fool yourself into thinking there will not be a large negative impact on services due to "balancing the budget". This bill makes sense!! If my legislators do not approve it and we are asked for further cuts and sacrifices, my vote will show my displeasure.

You are a disengenous turd. Probably a repubichair plant. There is nothing that state employee calls/emails gonna do. Got that turd! You've known it all along.

Only one type a person can come up with words such as this and repubichair?---ONE WHO IS NOT RIGHT--- why don't you find something else to do

Some of us have been working hard for over 25yrs in situations that require us to take physical and mental abuse from our clients on a daily basis. We are dropping like flies and I personally almost died after an altercation with residents. It was a miracle that I could be resuscitated. Do we have to come to near death before we can get the release our over 50 year old bodies need? Please give us the reward we deserve for our service to the state by allowing us an early retirement.

your unable to do the dedicated work of a civil SERVANT!! shame on you for cutting someone down that does want to help others BUT not be ridicule. sales???? lol i know about sales I have been licensed in that field since 1983. i just wonder HOW much income tax you pay!! no i prefer to be honest NOT dishonest to make a buck...

If you are working for me (a taxpayer) and this post is what you are capable of then I want to fire you. You wouldn't be able to cut it at McDonalds with your third grade education and now you want an early out. I'll give you an early out, go, go now. You should shut up and be happy that your uncle got you into the governments employ before you starved to death.

Why would the Governor and Legislators think that an early out for State Employees would not be a good thing. They have to cut every department. Do they really think the economy could handle more people laid off. So why not have an earyl out retirement bill pass so our young people can find jobs in this, once beautiful state of Michigan. My son graduated with a Bachelors degree in Businness and Administration last spring and has yet to find a job in this state and has started searching out of State. This is sad that your young people, our future, cannot find work. My husband is laid off and is out of unemployement benefits and insurance. Being unable to draw unemployment means he is not counted in the number of people drawing, because he's not drawing. I'm positive he is not the only person in this situation in this state. Therefore, there are a lot more people out of work than what people really think. The number they publish are again, only those people drawing a check, not the ones that have exhausted there benefits and still cannot find work. People cannot not survive on minimum wages jobs. The State would save almost $200,000.00 if they passed the early retirement bill, and hired 1 out of every 4 position available. There are also a lot of middle management positions that could be abolished, saving the State a lot more money. When the State hires, they don't hire the little people that actually do the work, they hire more managers. I see it happen all the time at DMB. We cannot be taxed more and we need new business to want to come to this state, not leave this state. The Governor and the legislators must do something, and laying off more people, closing state parks, and such are not going to market Michigan as a place where business', tourist or anyone for that matter what to come here to Michigan or stay here. I have lived in Michigan all my life and cannot believe how back the economy has gotten in 50 years. So I urge everyone to vote for the early out retirement bill to pass, then those of us that can retirement can work part time and the minimum wages jobs and let our young people have the better paying jobs and become able to stay in this State and have a normal decent life, marriage, children and a home.

Talked with my legislators today ---EARLY RETIREMENT IS PROBABLY DEAD. The Democrats and the governor will not pursue it either in committee or individually. I dont think we even have a wing or a prayer to hold on to.

All the senator's voting no on this Bill, are stating" We can't cut Employees". Well I fell much better now, knowing I'm not going to loose my job with the State, because we don't want to cut any employees!!!!! Awesome, now I can go back to a normal life, and not have to worrying about losing my Job everytime the State has a Budget Crisis. Thank you Sen. Cherry and others.

I hate to be negative, however, I went through 4 layoffs from 81-93! Trust me, your job is NEVER secure! I dread the thought, but if they don't offer an early out,how do you think they will cut spending....? I has happened too many times before. You may be one of the lucky ones that has just enough time to be safe and for your sake, I hope so. Hang in there and hang on to your seat!!