Michigan Votes Forum

they took a harzard to society off the road. (sarcasm) These people are running a police state and will take all of our money sooner or later.

You know all people make mistakes, I am a 19 year old male who has lost my license back when I was 17. I will be 20 this year and yet have a long time to wait until I can get mine back, so the only reason you are saying this is because you have never been through this experience.

the bad decisions you have.

It sounds like both an irresponsible kid and an irresponsible mother.

you get when you give away your responsibility to a group that is neither prepared nor equipped to take it on. why the legislature takes on SO MANY ADDED RESPONSIBILITIES when it can't even take care of the ones it's SUPPOSED to take care of, i'll never know. now, driver's responsibility fees are a DUMB WAY TO RAISE MONEY. 1. it is a form of punishment. 2. it is double jeopardy, or more appropriately, double dipping. paying twice for the same offense. 3. it has tried to collect from the people that the state has already punished and collected from. 4. it is not a just punishment, so people rightfully avoid it's payment. cure these ills by repealing this stupid law.

How is any of this the state's fault? The mess that your son finds himself in is solely of his own and your own making. "If they still had free drivers education in High School like they used to, he never would have gotten the first ticket." Driver's education was very properly removed from the high school curriculum. It should never have been the responsibility of the schools to teach kids to drive. That responsibility should have rested with the parents. Unfortunately, our society seems to think it is ok to dump more and more responsibility on teachers and schools because the parents are too lazy or inept to do their jobs. "I could not afford to pay for driver education classes" Was it a shock to you when your son turned 16 and needed to learn to drive? How about putting $5 a week aside in the years prior to his turning 16? That would have more than covered the expense. Even better, how about making him get a job to earn the money? Every year I see kids out in the neighborhood trying to earn money shoveling snow or mowing grass. He could have done that. He could have worked at McDonalds. He could have gotten an after school job doing just about anything. "I accept that he deserved the ticket, and the subsequent two others he got" So it was ok with you that your son broke the law, not once but 3 times? You allowed him to drive illegally 3 times and you're complaining that he received the consequences of his actions? That certainly takes a lot of nerve!

I feel the need to say soemthing in this mother's defense here. You say it's entirely their fault, and it should be the parent's responsibility to teach their children how to drive? That's funny, how are they supposed to teach them if they can't put them behind the wheel of a car? You have to be certified to teach driver's education and have certain very expensive insurance etc. etc. to put a driver in training behind the wheel. And before you start on the graduated license bull..I imagine some poeple have schedules that don't allow them to have time during the times their kids would be allowed to drive with them to teach them then. Oh, and might I mention that OUR TAXES PAY THE FUNDING FOR PUBLIC SCHOOLS so responsibility WAS with the parents for their children learning to drive when the schools were teaching it. get your head some sunshine and understand what you're talking about before you go talking down to people. It's those like you who created the mess that has people leaving the state of Michigan vowing never to return in the first place. Me included. I've owed Driver Responsibility fines since literally ten days after it came into effect. i didn't know it until over a year later. I wasn't even a legal resident of the state, I'd been there less than two weeks. And Even dealing with tickets and court etc I was there less than the mandatory 90 days that is required to be legally considered a resident, and yet..I still owe the state of Michigan 3000 bucks for tickets I already paid near 1000 for, not to mention the month I spent in the Alger County Jail. I have two words for anyone who supports this crap, and they're rather offensive, so I won't subject everyone else who reads this to them.

I read on one of these someone mentioning that you could get a license in Missouri if you are suspended in michigan. Not sure if it was in regards to this bill or the other, but i just want to mention that this is FALSE. I live in Missouri, I owe driver responsibility fees in Michigan(never was a resident, legally, came from Missouri, went right back to missouri). I cannot get my license back. Technically, I am valid in Missouri. If I had gotten my license back before the block from MI was placed on my license, I'd be able to legally drive here until it expired. However, they will not issue one to me because of the block. Don't feel bad folks, the BS is just as deep in some other places. Now, if you didn't understand that..I am valid to get my license here in Missouri. But they still won't give it to me because of MI. A cop runs my name, they ask why I have a nondriver's license, because I even come across their scanners as being valid. Yet I do not have a license, and it's all because of this driver responsibility bull up there. I've spent the past year sleeping between one and two hours a night, almost the entire year, because between going to college full time, working full time, and taking care of my best friend who's been in and out of the hospital with serious issues that's all the time I have had left. If I didn't have to walk or call everyone i know to find someone who could help me get my friend to appointments or take us grocery shopping or whatever, I may know what sleep feels like. This law is destroying people. I for one have been ready to collapse, sleep for a week, and just give up on ever achieving anything worthwhile because I'm simply WAY beyond my limit! Luckily my friend has finally recovered enough that that responsibility is off of my shoulders so i can start getting sleep, but honestly, I have no clue how I have managed it all. God help me if anymore difficulties arise, because I don't have the strength nor the will to keep struggling like I have been. I've been punished for the wrong I did, the laws i broke. I sat in jail, I paid what at the time was three entire months of pay in fines. And I've heard so many stories from poeple i've met in various places as well as on the web about the struggles this has caused for them, and what I've dealt with pales in comparison to what this law has done to some poeple's lives! This law has GOT to go.

It is entirely their fault. The mother chose not to provide her son with driver's training. If she did not have the money to pay for training in one lump sum then she could have done what many people do when they know a big expense is coming up -- put a few dollars aside each week. There is always a way to save a few dollars each week -- coupons, not buying name brands, smoking fewer cigarettes, etc. The mother is also at fault for not making it very clear to her child that if you do not have a license you do not drive. However, ultimately the fault lies with the son. He chose to purposely break the law 3 times. Forgive me for not feeling sorry for him.

I am a defense attorney that handles a great deal of traffic related matters. Michigan's driver responsibility law is, in my opinion, a tax on the rich, a huge burden on the middle class, and an all out attack on the poor. Legal represenation costs money... there is no such thing as court appointed counsel for civil infractions! Those with lawyers often get out of their "points" at court. They also get charges that would incur huge DR fees knocked down to ones that don't even show up on one's driving record. Show up unrepresented and good chance you'll get nailed to the wall and have to pay twice as much as the affluent, plus DR fees (of which the court often doesn't advise the defendant of). Driver "responsibility" has NOTHING to do with driving skills, but money, sophistication of how the "system" works and how to work it. Without any semblence of quality public transportation in Michigan, how can anyone say driving is a "privilege"? A privilege of the rich?

In 2007, Virginia copied Michigan's Driver Responsibility Act, imposing large mandatory fines on several classes of traffic infractions. Virginia's fine for operating with a suspended license was $800 instead of Michian's $1,000, but the main difference was a $1,000 surtax for operating 20 m.p.h. over the posted limit. Lots of middle-class drivers could foresee getting $1,000-plus tickets on Virginia's underposted highways, where many freeway miles are at 55 m.p.h. and radar detectors are illegal. Voters forced the legislature to repeal the surtaxes, in an emergency session. Virginia will restore the driver licenses of citizens who lost them under their program, and refund all the "abusive driver fees" that were paid in. Refunds are the only honorable way to treat drivers who have paid these unconscionable fines, but no one is proposing to do that in Michigan, where the state has collected over $250 million from the state's poorest citizens (on billings of over $500 million, leaving over 100,000 people in debt to the state). Bills to repeal this program remain untouched in both houses, under orders of the Democratic leadership in the House and the Granholm administration, and with the evident approval of the Republican leadership of the Senate. But the longer the legislature delays, the worse the injustice when it is finally forced to repeal the law and waive the hundreds of millions of dollars in unpaid fines, making suckers out of those who actually paid them, with no hope of a refund.

how dare you judge anyone. you are ridiculous in your statements and i wonder if you follow any of your own advice. you're probably just lucky enough to not find yourself in a sticky situation when there are morons like you trying to tell people what they should and shouldn't do. this driver responsibility fee is forcing everyone to leave the state in order to live. what will the state do after they've kicked all these people out? they'll come after you and i'd like to see you save your spare change, while paying your bills and walk to work everyday while the state rapes you of every penny you own. you should start putting $5.00 a day away for that now.

sounds like an irresponsible state that wants to rape the poor and working middle class in order to pay off it's debts

I owe 6,000!!!!!! Theyre threating to put a lein on my account...as if I have anything in there waiting for them! We should demonstrate against this!!!

My son 23 got a dui with an accident it was a blizzard that day and went to court 1500.00 fine which he paid. He was then hit with a 2,000.00 responsibility and next year another 2,000.00. He lost his car, license and his job because I was unable to take him to work on time a few times. He is now living on food stamps and the devil goverment is calling on the phone demanding money. My husband has lost his job due to automobile cut backs and I don't see a way out of this mess and I am afraid my son is thinking suicide is the only way out for him.

We owe 6,000.00 3 this year and 3 next year, can we go into bankruptcy to wipe out this dept?

I am leaving Mi to avoid 2,000 responsibly fees any ideals on where to go.

Where to go? Depends. If you're a Republican, welcome to Colorado. If democRAT, go anywhere else. (Well...maybe not Wyoming. I've heard they shoot democRATs up there.) Jim Arvada, CO

go to either coast. Maybe tsan franthisco... Then they will be able to see how badly their agenda will screw up the country.

My husband lost his license 4 years ago due to getting a 2nd DUI. Although he has been eligible to TRY and get his license back for 3 years, as everyone knows it's not cheap. We FINALLY saved up the money, got an attorney and had a hearing date to request his license back on 6/25. On 6/16 he was driving home from work (because you have to work, and thanks to this lovely state, we have NO public transportation! So he has NO other choice) he was stopped by a state cop for having a Texas license plate on the FRONT of his truck. His Michigan plate which was in the rear of the vehicle all up to date and valid. He was not speeding and didn't violate any law. The cops said "you didn't do anything wrong, I just wanted to check out that plate, I lived in Texas once too!" Long story short, gave him a ticket for DWLS, a warning for the plate, and told him the DWLS wasn't a big deal, after my husband pleaded with him because of his upcoming hearing date. Any opinions from anyone on a good arguement to TRY and get this thrown out so we can TRY to get procede with getting his license back?? What are people supposed to do, Grandholm has run this state into the GROUND!

I was charged with a responsibility fee in June of 2005. I did not have the insurance cerificate with me at the time but I took it to the police station within 3 days. However in September, 2005 I received noification that my license were suspended for no proof of insurance. I had to pay a bond of $100 and miss work for a mandatory court date. Ok, now we are in January, 2006 and I made arrangements on he $500 dollar fee imposed. Now it is June 2006 and I assumed everything was fine. I received a state income tax refund in 2007 but in 2008 my state taxes were taken for a driver responsibilty fee from 2005. For the life of me, I could not understand why they did not take he 2007 taxes instead of 2008. I never received a notice of he 2nd fee until it was taken, then thats when I got notification that my license were suspended for this state imposed fee. I wound up having to pay a reinstatement fee for the suspension. This is a horrible tax and I commend State Rep. Bettie Cook Scott for trying to stop this madness. Since 2005 I have paid nearly nearly $2000 on these imposed fees.

Several commentors have said that they were convicted of not having proof of auto insurance, and subjected to license suspensions and driver responsibility fees. Since June 1, 2004, anyone ticketed for no proof of insurance who answers the ticket within the specified time and shows the court that insurance was indeed in effect should have had the ticket thrown out, the fine waived, and be subject to no more than $25 in court costs. See Sec. 328 of the Michigan Vehicle Code. This amendment was passed in response to the Driver Responsibility Act, which originally imposed an irreducible $300 fine for failure to produce the proof of insurance, even if insurance was in effect. Although it might take a lawyer to make the necessary filings, anyone wrongly convicted of failure to show proof of insurance should petition to have their case re-opened and the conviction reversed. It may also be possible to have all penalties flowing from the wrongful conviction, such as license suspensions, reinstatement fees, and responsibility fees refunded or waived.

"This amendment was passed in response to the Driver Responsibility Act, which originally imposed an irreducible $300 fine for failure to produce the proof of insurance, even if insurance was in effect." This was part of the outcry against the stupid responsibility fees. Seems that a few older folks got popped for this one shortly after 2 penny jenny passed it. People went nuts and it was changed. The problem is that the rest of this horse excrement bill stayed put.

I owe six thousand dollars. I am in construction and can't hold a job without being able to drive. which means I can't afford to continue to live in Michigan where I have no family. Can I resolve this issue from another state?

Big words for a nano brain. If you don't know what the heck you are talking about mabey you should study up. People with your self righteous attitude make me ill. The legislation you are so fond of is unconstitutional. You should read the constitution you might learn a little.

My 18yr. old son tried to get a Michigan ID not drivers license, just a picture ID! The S.O.S. said he owed drivers responsibilty fee for no proof of insurance (which he had nad showed to the city) and can not obtain an ID!!!!! That is CRAZY!

The bill that directly deals with this maddness is HB#4006. Bettie Scott Cook's bill dont address the problem directly.

obviously your parents were a little confused and stuffed that silver spoon up your ass instead of in your mouth. You need a little real world education, instead of all those neat little books you read at harvard or some other ivy league date rape training academy, i mean, college. Not everyone is well off enough to make ends meet, even if they work their asses off. Then again, thinking about it now, you would make a great cabinet member for captain mole and the bitch brigade.

obviously your parents were a little confused and stuffed that silver spoon up your ass instead of in your mouth. You need a little real world education, instead of all those neat little books you read at harvard or some other ivy league date rape training academy, i mean, college. Not everyone is well off enough to make ends meet, even if they work their asses off. Then again, thinking about it now, you would make a great cabinet member for captain mole and the bitch brigade.

this state is fu//ed up becuase of our jennifer she is the one to pull drivers ed from schools then imposes laws that are techinly double jeopretty so i say we should have a vote to impeach the canadian dyke

She is something called a dlcer. A Dem corrupted by lobbyist money. It is the republicans that introduced the bill you jerk. Both parties represent the fucking rich now. We are a two party dictatorship. We need a general strike against this bullshit. It is the only way to put the fear of god into them when both parties are corrupted by big money interests.

Come in here and talk total nonsense about how the situation certain people find themselves in, but too scared to openly post your name? You have no balls, and probably are one of the well-to-do that can afford an attorney to get out of what DUI's you have gotten. GROW SOME BALLS, and actually post your name, do you even live in michigan?

"You have no balls, and probably are one of the well-to-do that can afford an attorney to get out of what DUI's you have gotten. " So, because I believe that people should be responsible for the consequences of their actions, that makes me well-to-do? You have some very interesting logic. By the way, I am not well-to-do, nor could I ever afford a private attorney. I also do not have any DUIs because I am intelligent enough not to drink and drive. I am, quite frankly, sick and tired of people who choose to break the law (and in the case of the mother who posted regarding her son -- repeatedly and knowingly choose to break the law) complaining about receiving consequences for their own actions. To paraphrase an old saying, "If you can't pay the fine, don't do the crime."

Hello everyone: I'm working to get this law repealed for Texas. Please let me know what is going on with your fights! Virginia has repealed their DRL. If we can get out states to follow suite, this would be amazing for us! The object is to stop the court actions: they are not working or catching attention. We must educate everyone, let them make their decision to join/not support/ and take action. Join the fight against the DRL in all impacted states! If we join together-we WILL make a difference! Thanks for letting me post/vent: Mary Moody http://www.myspace.com/fightthetxresponsibilityp YouTube postings at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt5SU95y_oo to view the first posting and: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fljjLhLdwHE for the second. And Tamara has began a petition for the state of TX at: http://www.petitiononline.com/TXDRP07/petition.html

BIG TALK FROM SOME BITCH ASS PUSSY POSTING ANONYMOUSLY ON A FORUM ON THE INTERNET. ITS FUCKS LIKE YOU THAT LET THE GOVERNMENT TROMP ALL OVER RIGHTS OF THE LESS PRIVILEGED. YOU WILL GET YOURS ONEDAY.

Do you actually think this will even make it in this year to be voted on? I am so tired of being stuck in my little town, where I can't find a job to pay my fines, because I cannot drive, because I cannot pay my fines, because I cannot find a job, because I cannot drive.

I have been reading the posts on this page and I agree completely with people's frustration. I also have had driver responsibility fees. I received 9 tickets, the courts felt that they were all wrongly given to me except one that I paid for right away, the others were dismissed and I didn't have to pay for them. When I went to see about my license I found out that even though the judge felt I didn't deserve these tickets the state of michigan felt I needed to pay more than double for them, which I don't even have close to the money for. All the money that I pay people for gas to get from my home out of town I could be putting on the drivers fees if I wanted and could afford to be a hermit. I also feel it is important for these people on here to understand that yes the state of michigan can and will garnish wages 20% to be exact until the fees are paid. I really wish that they would stop milking people for these fees. I have accepted my punishment for the crimes that the county waived and I can no longer have a license until I pay about $2,500.00. If there is anything that we can do as a group to put a stop to this I really think we should rally to do it Jenn

I AM MOVING. THIS IS BY FAR THE MOST PATHETIC STATE IN THE COUNRTY!!!! What is the responsibility fee for child abuse or rape? how about killing a stripper at a party? What is the responsibility fee for your daddy bribing the dean to allow you into his school?

GO DOWN SOUTH IF THEY HAVEN'T SUSPENDED YOU THEN YOU CAN GET A LICENSE. GIVING YOU TIME TO COME UP WITH THE MONEY IF YOU OWE TICKETS AND YOU CAN PLEA BY MAIL. I MOVED FROM MICHIGAN ABOUT 5 1/2 YRS AGO. I FOUND OUT THAT MY LICENSE WAS SUSPENDED WHILE OUT OF TOWN. I HAD NO IDEA IT HAD GOTTEN THAT BAD OR I WOULD'VE STAYED DOWN SOUTH. I AM NOW IN TOLEDO. I WISH YOU LUCK ON GETTING AWAY.

Over five years, there has been no measurable change in driving habits — in fact there are more offenses than normal. And the state only collects 48 percent of assessments. Of course, that doesn't mean much because the looting legislators like the loot. But this article is filled with lots of good numbers and stats on traffic offenses and revenues. http://www.senate.michigan.gov/sfa/Publications/Notes/2008Notes/NotesJulAug08ew.pdf