Michigan Votes Forum

Does one earn the title, "grumpy" simply by wishing for a little peace and quiet? Don't you like peace and quiet? (Personally, I don't associate peace and quiet with snarling, roaring, pollution-belching, ground-tearing ORVs. In fact, ORV and peace and quiet are mutually exclusive terms -- one goes away when the other shows up.)

Our legislators need to start caring about Michigans economy,,,,,this bill would generate alot of revenue for businesses and for the state in more collected tax,,,,,it all rolls down hill!!!

If this bill becomes law it will generate far more noise, destruction and misery for Michigan residents than it will income. Dump it.

come in and cut down trees to build houses, raise noisy little families, with noisy little cars, and noisy little kids are better? pretty soon there will be a noisy little metropolis where your peaceful country retreat is. get used to it.

Yes grumpy fits. “Seeks peace and quiet” give me a break, do you drive a car? What if don’t want anyone driving a car past my cabin? I will stereotype for you. "You drivers up there, you all speed, mow down mail boxes, drive cars that need new exhaust………".I can say your ruining my PEACE AND QUITE. Quit stereotyping every ORV rider and machine.

your right just like grumpy and happy are mutually exclusive terms. your quote: "ORV and peace and quiet are mutually exclusive terms"

It not as bad as you say. just ask the people in the U.P. They have proof it's good for them and the locals. Maybe You’re already set with retirement and don’t need the income associated with this law. But think of the people that would benefit.

ORVs don't bring wealth to an area. They bring noise, pollution, and damaged ground.

foot, horseback, cars, covered wagons, snowmobiles, and tractors. what about it???

worshipping the earth and get a life. "damaged ground" ??? It ain't all about you princess. I just love the way that all you libs just want everybody to get along. The only problem is that we all have to do what you want or we're not trying to get along. Control freaks, everyone.

Thank you. And I am not a tree-hugging earth worshipper. ORVs, ATVs and the like bring neither prosperity nor wealth to areas they run in. What they do bring -- and you can't refute it -- is noise, pollution and torn up ground. Moise, pollution and torn up ground diminish the quality of life that mainstream people enjoy.

ask the local business owners about that. "ORVs don't bring wealth to an area." You know, the guys that pay the majority of the taxes and work their butts off everyday. You probably wouldn't understand. Now go back into the woods with your book. Don't forget to tell those pesky deer to tread lightly on your precious earth.

99% of these respondents are pro-ORV, so let’s get this law passed. We have the numbers so let’s email all of our Senators showing our support and get this passed. I think the 1% negative post about this law is coming from a select few (probably the same person). These naysayers really don’t care about bringing economic relief to Michigan. They just don’t want to see anyone enjoying an activity they have no interest in. Remember this is a democracy and majority rules, there are over 300,000 registered ORV’s in this state alone, so let’s bring it.

Ours is a representative democracy, with a constitution that is intended to protect minority rights -- protect minorities and individual interests from the tyranny of the masses. So, even if a majority of posters here favor passage of this bill, its effect on the minority who have expressed opinions must be considered. The simple fact is that ORVs bring neither wealth nor prosperity to the lands they ravage. What they do bring is noise, pollution and torn up ground. Those factors should be considered as this bill is debated in the legislature. Or, if one wishes to make the populist argument, remember that ORVs and similar expensive toys are playthings for the monied elite. They bring neither prosperity nor wealth the to the landscapes they ravage. What they do bring is noise, pollution and torn up ground. Either way, you put it, this bill is a bummer for the people of Michigan.

"Ours is a representative democracy" We have a Constitutional Republic No where will you ever see the word democracy

Right on a "technical" point about no reference to democracy. However, our representatives in the Representative Republic form of government are elected democratically. So whether or not there is an official label, there is the reality of democratic participation. My earlier comment about constitutional protections against the tyranny of the masses, and populist concerns regarding this bill stand.

Highest taxes, EVER. Highest unemployment, EVER. Highest forclosure rate, EVER. ENGLER is looking better and better, isn't he. Where are all the morons that supported jenny now? Time to come out from under your rock.

And Company basically got us to where we are. What a mess. But this bill won't solve anything. ORVs do not bring prosperity or wealth to the areas they rampage in. What they bring is noise, pollution and destruction. This bill should be defeated.

Its been 8 years. Start ptting the blame squarely where it belongs...on the shouldeers of the bi tch!!!

bla bla bla, "noise, pollution, torn up ground" bla bla bla. Get a life grumpy.

I just like peace and quiet, clean air and undisturbed ground. ORVs do not bring wealth or prosperity to the places they run over. They bring noise, pollution and torn up terrain. This bill should be defeated. Mr. Happy

if you want peace and quiet, buy more property, and post it. forbid ORV's on your property. if you buy enough property, you can have all the peace and quiet you want. roads are PUBLIC property, not yours. you can move YOUR house as far away from that public property as you wish. you are free to do that. WE wish to be free to use that public property as WE WISH TO USE IT. if your neighbor allows us to use ORV's on his property, you are again free to move as far away from HIS property as you wish. exercise YOUR freedoms, and we will exercise ours. don't try to impose your will on the rest of us. remember, the MASSES of ORV owners CAN vote against you on this bill. DEMOCRACY at work. the WILL OF THE MASSES outweighing the WILL OF THE ONE. carl marx would be so proud.

the road past your house is a big strip of 'TORN UP GROUND'. all the trees were RIPPED UP, CHEWED UP, AND HAULED AWAY to make it. it was done by LARGE, LOUD EQUIPMENT that can come back at any time to maintain that road. i'm also sure your garbage isn't picked up by somebody in a horse and buggy.

Buy more property to secure some peace and quiet. ORVs made a mess of it. Uninvited. ORVs do not bring wealth or prosperity to the areas they run over. They bring noise, pollution, litter, trespassing, lawbreaking and destruction. This is a bad bill.

I did Buy more property to secure some peace and quiet. ORVs made a mess of it. Uninvited. [then they were TRESPASSING. you simply call the cops and report them. they will come out and arrest whoever is on your property uninvited. didn't you see them tearing up your property? didn't you hear the roar of the engines? obviously not...] ORVs do not bring wealth or prosperity to the areas they run over. [no, the ORV itself doesn't, but it's rider often does. if riders get gas, food, and yes, beer from the local store, that's business that the local store WOULDN'T HAVE DONE WITHOUT THEM. that's prosperity, especially if it continues. now, ORV riders are going to need SUPPORT SERVICES, such as maintenance and parts, maybe you could supply that (at a profit). think about it.] They bring noise, pollution, litter, trespassing, lawbreaking and destruction. [obviously not THAT much noise, or you would have known they were littering, trespassing, breaking the law and causing destruction. nice try though.] This is a bad bill. [no, the rights of ORV riders to use the public roads needs to be protected. whats going to happen when one of your neighbors decides YOUR vehicle is a nuisance and wants to keep YOU off the road? YOUR rights will be taken away too. you protect YOUR right to privacy by reporting trespassers, and eventually they will stop trespassing. don't enforce YOUR right to privacy by denying OTHERS the right to use the PUBLIC ROADS.]

Is you sympathy for crime victims? ORVs and their riders illegally invaded my property, trashed it, and you are critical of me? The cops don't respond to incidents like that. Especially in this day of tight budgets. Especially out in the hinterlands where population is relatively sparse. That's the reality. ORVs bring neither prosperity nor wealth to the communities they run roughshod over. They bring noise, pollution, vandalism, trespassing, litter, lawless behavior, a savaged earth. This is a bad bill.

Where is you sympathy for crime victims? [my sympathy for crime victims is the same as my sympathy for criminals.] ORVs and their riders illegally invaded my property, trashed it, and you are critical of me? [yes, you and your non-existant 'response'. it can't be THAT big of a problem if you didn't RESPOND to it.] The cops don't respond to incidents like that. Especially in this day of tight budgets. Especially out in the hinterlands where population is relatively sparse. [so, you mean to tell me that they do not respond to charges of trespassing? (i'll bet if you called and told them that the ORV drivers were all drunk they'd be out there like a shot.) i think i'd have to let the world know that your local police chief is inept if he doesn't require his men and women to respond to trespassing calls. what town is this, so i know where to go to run for police chief?] That's the reality. [did you call in on the trespassers? or did you just 'DISCOVER' they had been there and you didn't hear them? if you just didn't hear them, then the NOISE PROBLEM you complain about is not as bad as you say. if you CALLED and they refused to come out and respond to your complaint, then a quick call to the attorney general's office will fix things right away. the first scenario makes you seem like a whiner. the second makes your police chief look like a bungling boob. which is it?] ORVs bring neither prosperity nor wealth to the communities they run roughshod over. [neither do democrats, but i'll bet the place is chock full of 'em.] They bring noise, pollution, vandalism, trespassing, litter, lawless behavior, a savaged earth. [and, according to you, they are either NINJA ORV'S or the local law enforcement can't or won't do anything about them. what does that tell us? it tells us that either the problem isn't as bad as you whine about, or the state you live in can't afford to offer you police protection. both good incentives for you to re-locate.] This is a bad bill. [no, you are a bad citizen if you tolerate trespassing and your local department's lack of response to it. this bill is NOT ABOUT TRESPASSING. your story of this incident shows that your town has MANY MORE SERIOUS PROBLEMS THAN ORV'S on the side of the roads. do you have drug dealers setting up meth labs in your woods too?]

Mr. Happy??? I think you need to study this law a little more. If you have experienced illegal trespass on your property by an ORV this new law would give stiffer fines to these individuals. With a majority of these monies going to law enforcement. Do you know what the actual fine is now for somebody riding illegally on our roadways, wet areas, and privet property? Between 60-100 dollars, not really a discouraging fine. I believe this new law would have min. fines of $500.00, so you know the law enforcement would be very encouraged to write these tickets. So it’s not all a win win for the ORV’s. This law is giving us ORV riders a better opportunity to get, gas, food, repairs and access to legal ORV trails. By the way not all ORV riders, destroy your precious little piece of Heaven, some of us are actually law abiding, taxpaying citizen.

Are a joke. Enforcement is all but non-existent. This is a bad bill Mr. Happy

it seems that your town has been the 'victim' of lax attitudes towards law enforcement. could it be that YOUR attitude to law enforcement has been a LOT lax lately? this could explain why your local law enforcement doesn't have the guts, brains, or money to respond to your complaints of trespassing. you asked for sympathy, but not many people have that much sympathy for SELF INFLICTED WOUNDS. now, if you were blaming the current situation on the lack of funding provided by the current governor, i MIGHT feel just a little bit better, but NOT MUCH. i know you won't, though, as you support HER almost as much as you oppose this law. now, is YOUR property properly posted? (can't claim trespassing if your property isn't properly marked.) is the fence in good repair? (can't claim private property if your boundaries aren't clearly marked.) how are they getting onto your property? (breaking and entering?) are they destroying your fence? (criminal damage to property.) do you patrol YOUR property? (due vigilance) there seems to be A LOT lacking at your place.

Sounds like you live in a bad area. I think you need to talk with somebody in your law enforcement agency regarding enforcement issues. Not ORV issues.

My, my, my; Mr. Happy you’re coming across as being GRUMPY, maybe you’re coming across all wrong with your local law enforcement agency, that’s why the non-enforcement issues you’re having with them. . Try a smile with a good attitude; you might notice a better response. Hey you/they might even catch one of those no good rotten, ground tearing, noise polluting, fun grabbing ORV riders.

I think she split the scene.

I am on a first-name basis with local law enforcement officials, top to bottom. We smile at one another politely. See one another frequently. Even have coffee and donuts, now and then. But trespass, littering and property vandalism are low-priority violations around here, thanks to scant budgets and limited personnel in an era of downsized departments. This is especially true out in the sticks. Abuse by ORV is just a part of living in the country hereabouts. That's why I oppose any expansion of ORV privilege. It just aggravates the problems I already have to deal with. ORVs do not bring prosperity or wealth to places where they run. They create Hellholes filled with noise, pollution, ravaged ground and lawless behavior. They are not an asset. And, by the way, if justifying lawlessness by blaming and assailing those victimized by it is what you equate with happiness, go for it. You just prove the point about ORV mentality and behavior. This is a bad bill. Mr. Happy

Em

Here jenny, jenny. We have a liberal here for you. He’s all grumpy and self absorbed, you know with “it’s good for me GREAT and to hell with everybody else” It’s a GOOD LAW PASS IT!

Characters around here are the ORV types who insist they have a right to disturb the peace, quiet and property of other people, at will. They are the ones who blame property owner victims of ORV trespass and vandalism for the incursions. They are the ones who excuse lawless behavior because they think it is fun to behave like Yahoos. The fact is, ORVs produce noise, pollution and ripped up ground, and virtually nothing else. Certainly nothing of value. ORVs bring neither prosperity nor wealth to the areas the invade and ravage. What they bring is trespass problems, disturbed peace, vandalism, litter and destruction. This is a bad bill because it broadens opportunity for trashing by ORVs.

you posted this... "I am on a first-name basis with local law enforcement officials, top to bottom. We smile at one another politely. See one another frequently. Even have coffee and donuts, now and then. [so, why don't you ask the chief, each and every time you see him, in public, in a loud voice, why he thinks it's okay to trespass on your property? I don't think it's okay to trespass on your property, and neither does anyone who posts here. but your local police chief and his officers do. embarrass the hell out of them EACH AND EVERY TIME YOU SEE THEM.] But trespass, littering and property vandalism are low-priority violations around here, thanks to scant budgets and limited personnel in an era of downsized departments. This is especially true out in the sticks. Abuse by ORV is just a part of living in the country hereabouts. [trespassing is NOT a low priority violation no matter where you live. if your police chief thinks so, ask him in a loud clear voice every time you see him WHY he thinks so. i'm sure that the FIRST TIME he opens his mouth and the words "those guys trespassing on your property are just a part of living in the country hereabouts." come out, his political career will have ended right there. if he even has the guts to answer. now, if he comes up with the old 'we just don't have enough money to answer those kind of calls' routine, i'm sure that a whole bunch of property owners will remind him of just how much they pay for property taxes, which cover such things.] That's why I oppose any expansion of ORV privilege. It just aggravates the problems I already have to deal with. [YOU have aggravated the problems you already have to deal with. you ELECTED this yahoo in the first place. ELECT SOMEBODY ELSE. hell, run for the damn job yourself. obviously YOU can do it better than him. at least trespassers on YOUR property would be caught and prosecuted. if nothing else, volunteer to be a reserve officer. that would mean that a bona-fide badge carrier lives on your property, able to DO SOMETHING about trespassing marauders.] ORVs do not bring prosperity or wealth to places where they run. They create Hellholes filled with noise, pollution, ravaged ground and lawless behavior. [sorry, but you ALREADY LIVE IN A HELLHOLE FILLED WITH NOISE, POLLUTION, RAVAGED GROUND AND LAWLESS BAHAVIOR. this law would only make it legal to drive ORV'S on the sides of public roads, not on your property. have you tried taking your complaint to a higher level of law enforcement? i'm sure that the sheriff's patrol or the state police can do something, as they have LOTS of money. get them on the phone next time. watch what happens when THEY show up to investigate a complaint that the local PD should be handling.] They are not an asset. [your problem is NOT with ORV'S, it's with CRIMINALS. handle your criminal problems and your ORV problems will go away. this law will not stop the criminals from trespassing nor will it MAKE THEM TRESPASS MORE.] And, by the way, if justifying lawlessness by blaming and assailing those victimized by it is what you equate with happiness, go for it. You just prove the point about ORV mentality and behavior. [if blaming the law abiding for the trespassers on your property is what you equate with happiness, then go for it, you prove the point that if you do nothing about crime, crime will increase. if blaming this law for the trespassers on your property is what you consider fun and games, no wonder you can't tell when something will be good for an area's economy. if allowing your law enforcement to GET AWAY WITHOUT DOING THEIR JOB is how you entertain yourself, then YOU DESERVE WHAT YOU GET.] This is a bad bill. [no, sir. you are a BAD CITIZEN. get over it.] Mr. Happy

fines and penalties for trespassing A LOT if you catch them, convict them, and sentence them. the fines and penalties go up for a second and third offense. get your local cops off their asses. where do you live, i'll show you how to embarrass them into doing their job.

Blaming victims of trespass and vandalism crimes committed by ORV outlaws, eh? Shame on you. Shame. Shame. Shame. Recreational ORVS are nothing but destructive toys. Where they go they bring noise, pollution, torn up ground, litter and trespass problems. They do not bring prosperity. They do not bring wealth. Expanding their range only will make matters worse, diminishing the quality of life for ordinary citizens and property owners who wish to live quietly and peacefully, neither interfering with their neighbors' rights and lives nor having their own violated. This is a bad bill.