Michigan Votes Forum

one REALLY GREAT prison law library SOMEWHERE in michigan. the public libraries, while being beautiful (in some cases) and staffed by friendly people, are NOT particularly well stocked, nor are they very efficient in procuring some titles that are requested. this may be a product of the internet, but i am forced to believe that (given the constant pleading for money) the libraries ARE NOT getting all the funds that they are supposed to be getting.

HB4321 Will solve this problem of Motor Carriers being uncertified officers. This should have happened may years ago, but it didn't. HB4321 Will correct the mistake and make these people whole. To do the job that they were hired to do and that is protect and serve the people of the State of Michigan. There has been a lot of chatter about duplication and redundancy. Well In Police work there is a lot of duplication and redundancy for a reason. Not one Agency or department can do the whole Job by it's self. That is why we have Local Police departments and Sheriff Departments and The State Police and the DNR And Motor Carrier Officers. There are Jurisdiction and Fields Of Expertise that one person or Department just cannot handel. So there is an overlapping or responsibilities that each department and organization has, to help each other do the whole job together. HB4321 will help with that overlaping of authority for Motor Carrier Officers. There is a need for that Authority Over lap that is not there. Please Support HB4321 so the errror of not certifying these people can be corrected

Here Here - I second your viewpoint - outstanding...

The fact that over 70% of the States that have their people (titled Trooper or Commercial Vehicle Enforcement Officer or Motor Carrier Officer, ...) who are responsible for truck enforcement and inspection (MCSAP / CVSA trained) are fully certified peace officers should answer that question. It works in other states and it will work just fine here and it will save money.

should have been corrected years ago. the troopers should be out doing their job, not trampling with people's rights just to earn revenue. m.c.o.'s should be able to handle ANY call that comes up, but, like every other law enforcement officer, should NOT go out of their way to answer calls that are out of their jurisdiction, or off thier beats. other states have strict rules for jurisdictions and 'doing other's work, ignoring your work'. more training is always a good idea. better competency is always a good idea. working your beat is always a good idea. working someone else's beat is NOT a good idea.

The fact that mco's want to be certified will take away from truck safety, period. You cannot argue that one bit. How many times have you stopped a truck for doing 65/55 and they have been driving 15+ hours. Now what one is worse. That 15+hour driver that could nod off at any second or me doing 85 cause I am late for work? You cant tell me you mco's dont speed to work. Come on now.

I know I am far from the best writter but what in the world is this MCO saying? The more I read this post the more I say no to HB4321. I hope this post is a joke. See below... 243) News release PDA accident come to post [by Anonymous Citizen on March 18, 2007] Example MSP says to news media, mileage limits troopers not coming to take reports for minor accidents, you come to us. What one must go, a fight could happen. The excuses of what ifs are endless. Civil infractions are not criminal activity. If you don't know the mco budget is tight this year too. Most mco's near international borders are assigned 90% of there time to the border under strict grant limitations. Your example turned around being trucks just minutes away speeding,overweight and untouchable. Leave assigned task be disiplined, do it a few times be fired. The true effect is better training and visibility discouraging violators.

Believe what you want. Certification will not detract from the truck enforcement program. Why did it improve in other states when they certified thier officers. I'm sure you don't have an answer for that. But I'm sure you will do your best to make something up.

The fact that mco's want to be certified will in effect enhance truck safety. How is this possible? By having the authority to stop the person who is on their way to work and running late, doing 85. You see, statistics show by a large margin in crashes involving semi's the car driver is at fault. How? You see the trucks can weigh up to and over 160,000 pounds. At the legal speed of 60 mph on the highway, these trucks are often cut off by cars and given little room or time to react. Their distance to be able to come to a stop is much greater than cars simply because of their massive weight. Often they are forced off the road or into a "jack knife" position because of those doing 85 or many times higher. Why do people driving cars go that fast? Probably because they know they have a lesser chance of being caught than the semi driver who would be stopped for going 65/60.

the upper weight limit was 80,000 pounds. no wonder the highways are such a mess...

Your right I dont have an answer for why cars are more at fault in accidents involving trucks. Being that truck drivers are professionals and get paid for what they do does have a role in it. These guys and gals drive for a living. They want to keep the roads safe so they can make it back home to there families. The truck drivers realize how dangerous the roads are compared to your average joe or jane in there car trying to send text messages or put on make-up. Truck drivers are proactive, car drivers are reactive.

People drive 85 because EVERYONE does it. You dont dare go more than 5 over in Ohio. If MI cracked the whip on all speeders then they would get the hint. But when the Trooper wont stop you until you are doing at least 15 over then they will keep pushing 85+. And yes it is WELL KNOWN in MI that the Troops wont even look your way unless you are doing 15 over. Unless you fit a certain profile then they will stop you for 5 over.

From South Dakota Motor Carrier Officers (MCO) are certified law enforcement officers that focus their efforts on commercial motor vehicles. They provide support to the mobile teams and ports of entry in the area of motor carrier inspection. They travel the roadways conducting random roadside inspections of motor carriers utilizing the roads. They also provide educational information to the public concerning motor carrier issues. From Louisiana Currently, the Motor Carrier Safety Unit (MCS), a sub-unit of the Transportation and Environmental Safety Section (TESS), is further sub-divided into three regional units and an administrative support unit. Organizationally, MCS parallels the general organizational structure of the Louisiana State Police. The unit is staffed full time by 37 commissioned State Troopers, Sergeants, and Lieutenants. Additionally, the MCS Unit's efforts are being supplemented by 19 commissioned Troopers from the Towing/Recovery and Hazmat Units, From Kansas The MCI (Motor Carrier Inspectors) Law Enforcement Officers are certified law enforcement officers, who in addition to inspecting commercial motor vehicles, detect and deter criminal activity, and apprehend criminal offenders. From Wisconsin The Wisconsin State Patrol's primary responsibility is traffic law enforcement, but State Troopers have full police authority and statewide jurisdiction. In addition, the State Patrol provides the following services statewide: • Motor carrier safety Inspections • Vehicle size and weight enforcement • Inspections of school buses, ambulances, motor coaches, and salvage vehicles • Evaluation and maintenance of breath-alcohol testing equipment, also training to local law enforcement agencies • Traffic and emergency assistance to local law enforcement agencies • Assistance to local law enforcement agencies during major events • Accident scene reconstruction and crime scene mapping for investigations • Law enforcement training at the State Patrol Academy at Fort McCoy, Wisconsin • Traffic safety programs From Georgia MCCD Officers are trained and certified in accordance with standards of the Georgia Peace Officer Standards and Training (POST) Council, and have full arrest powers in the performance of their duties. In addition, because of the detailed regulations governing commercial vehicle and driver safety, size, weight, and hazardous materials, MCCD Officers spend many hours each year in training in these specialized topics.

First off, thank you to all the people who have shown an interest for and against this house bill. Democracy at its finest and I appreciate it. Regarding truck safety, should this bill pass, I can speak for myself by stating I fully intend to focus on truck enforcement. Having spent most of my law enforcement career working with trucks and truck drivers, commercial vehicle enforcement and inspection happens to be where my interest and area of expertise is. However, when I happen to be in the right place at the right time – and it seems to be that way often enough to concern me, it just makes sense to have the authority available. The Troopers and the Motor Carrier Officers at my post get along and work very well together. They back me up on traffic stops and I back them up on traffic stops. The same goes for the Deputies. None of us cares what color shirt the other is wearing. Out on the freeway, they are all my brothers and sisters. Its not about duplication, its about augmentation. But I can understand the opposing point of view. It is easy to misunderstand the situations Motor Carrier Officers face because of the current authority gray areas. In fact, we constantly have to ask ourselves “am I legally here”?? All we are asking for is the opportunity to serve the people of the State of Michigan in a more effective manner. House Bill 4321 serves that purpose.

yourself if you are 'legally here', you PROBABLY AREN'T. i understand about brotherhood, and co-operation between divisions, and departments. i also understand that, if given my 'druthers', you would have been fully certified from day one, and NO officer would be riding the streets WITHOUT full certification. the current situation is fraught with political pitfalls inherent in allowing a legislature to fully control a police department. it's a shame that politics stands in the way of efficient law enforcement. i'm all for police officers doing THEIR JOB. i'm all for officers being WELL TRAINED. i'm NOT all for duplication of effort. i'm NOT all for revenue raising by law enforcement. departments should be paid STRICTLY BY TAXES LEVIED, NOT BY FINES AND FEES COLLECTED FROM VIOLATORS. until this is changed, the officers will have an incentive to enforce SOME laws more than others in order to raise revenue to continue 'important operations'. until this is changed, officers will be nothing more, and nothing less than paid thugs for the government, extorting money instead of enforcing the laws fairly and firmly.

You know if you DIN"T break the traffic laws then the so called paid THUGS as you refer to them as won't write you a ticket. I've been driving for more then 45 years and only had three tickets and that was when I was younger. If you do as the law says and not what you want to you won't have to worry about the THUG'S PLAIN and SIMPLE

I don't think that certificaiton of motor carrier officers will cause local departments to worry about people working in their area and taking away from what they do. Why do we need so many different levels of law enforcement - easy, it's called checks and balances. If we only had one level of law enforcement, it would be controlled by the same level of government. Having different levels of law enforcement controlled by different levels of government keeps any one level from having absolute control over everything. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Example, take a look at the city of Flint. Imagine how much more corrput Don Williamson would be if the local sheriff and state had no officers there. The more levels of government we have, the more control the people (voters) have over what takes place. So to say let's get rid of the state and give everything to the sheriffs, that's kind of like putting all your eggs in one basket. Each level of law enforcement works cooperatively with each other and keeps the other agencies in check.

Well said, if you don't like paying tickets, don't break the law. For the other guy, if you're view of going 85mph on the freeway is only a little over and no big deal, then if you owed me 70 dollars and I took 85, could I say it's only a little more and not a big deal? I could just say that everyone else is doing it! Wake up!

enforcement takes their cue on what laws to enforce from the federal government, which mandates compliance to certain laws with promises of funding cuts for non-compliance. THIS is corruption at it's worst. THIS takes away from the local control/checks and balances theory. THIS makes law enforcement officers into revenue agents (thugs).

TWICE for no good reason (no probable cause) in this state. i wasn't issued a ticket either time. i wasn't even asked for identification until after the breathalyzer test was completed. i WAS asked if i had been drinking,which i hadn't. that didn't stop the officer from breathalyzing me TWICE. i WASN'T speeding. i WASN'T driving erratically. i WASN'T breaking ANY law. as a former police officer, i have no sense of humor when one of my brother officers violates the rights of a law abiding citizen TWICE. happening ONCE is an officer who is bored and over-zealous. happening TWICE is a sure sign of departmental policy at least, and direction from the attorney general at worst. d.u.i. is the biggest money maker this state has. it's a shame that more effort is spent on 'cracking down' on d.u.i. than is spent on investigating murders. i've written my share of tickets, and i had to make each and every one of them 'stick'. i got NO free passes from my rank, my department, or the court system. my 'conviction rate' was rather impressive, if i do say so myself, as i wasted NO time, mine or the citizens, chasing after 'easy freebies'.

the autobahn. it has no speed limit. people there may drive as fast as they want as long as they are SAFE. if they have an accident, it is presumed it was because they were not driving safely. each driver is responsible for their own safety. their accident rate is lower. their fatality rate is lower. their drivers are more skilled. they are still free to drive as fast as they want. they probably had at least two beers before driving home. why does this work there,but not here? because the government there has no problem allowing them to be free, but holding them responsible for the consequences of their actions. no coddling, no 'gray areas', just pure black and white. either you are safe or you are not. if you are safe, you keep driving. if you are not, you pay for what you destroyed.

You all just want to be certified because you want to be real cops. Something happens in front of you and your not certified and have no obligation to take any action. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Do your job and inspect trucks. If you want to be MCOLES certified then go back to trooper school or put your self through the academy @ LCC. MCO checklist.. 1) get certified 2) get payraise on next contract 3) double up after dark due to certification

You're my hero, can I have your autograph?

Not obligated, how do you figure? Why don't you read the MSP official orders. I believe it's official order number 44. MCO's are obligated to respond and react to a lot of things, only to hold it down until a trooper arrives. Troop gets credit for a job well done, MCO is lucky to get a thank you. This is where a duplication of efforts comes into play. Official orders directs MCO's to respond to injury accidents, domestic violence in progress, bank alarms, medical emergencies, etc... The law restricts them from taking action. Something needs to change. If a MCO is expected to respond but doesn't because of the lack of authority, there's a serious public liabilty issue created if someone dies. More often than not, MCO's are first on scene or the closest car to alot of things that threaten life or property. Imagine getting trapped in a burning car and a MCO just drives by looking for a truck and doesn't stop to help because he can't write the accident report. Or even some road rage idiot banging up your car with a ball bat and the MCO just drives on by thinking too bad that wasn't a truck I'd be able to stop and do something. Something has to be changed, either change deparment policy and let MCO's chase only trucks and not REQUIRE them to play cop when it suits the department best, or give them what little additional training they need and certify them. Either way, the conflict would be resolved. As for being real cops, go to the MSP web site, click on motor carrier division, go to recruiting and read the job description and essential task lists. That's more training than LCC offers. MCO's are real cops, it's just that the department has handicapped them for years and will continue to do so unless something is changed. FNS

I checked the state police web site. Why would the state train someone to do all that and not make them police officers? That was more training than I got when I went through Oakland Comm College. If I went through all of that and was not certified, I would be PO'd. Looks like the only thing they need is juvenile law, domestic violence laws, and civil disputes. I say support this bill, I was unaware of how much training these guys actually have.

They are trained to be MCO's so leave it be at that. More than 75% of these guys/gals can not even fit under a truck. They could not pass the agility test that they will have to take. They complain all day long about how there supervisors come up with insane policies that they have to follow. They just want to be certified so they can bail on the state police. Mark my words on todays date, MSP will loose at least 10%-30% of the MCO's within 2 years to agencies outside Michigan.

You know I was going to reply to the last posting about MCO's. But no matter what I or any one else says you just plain hate MCO's for some unknown reason. You had better not expect an MCO to ever back you up but they would because we know that it is the right thing to do!!!

Just be what you have just wrote it is very clear you have no clue what you are talking about. You just want to try to put mco's down anyway you can. If those are your best reasons not to support this bill, then I say get ready for certification mco's.

Losing only 10%-30% of our officers should be a great reason to support this bill considering we currently have a 47% attrition rate!

Hey, 10-30 percent would be much less than what we are loosing now. As for the fatso comment, I'm better fit that half the troops. I'm a little older than most and can still max the PT test on the young man's scale each year. You must be some troop with a chip on his shoulder because you know we're right. I have a lot of friends that are troops, they sure aren't arrogant like you. I'm not going to waste my time on this site because you will obviously not make a difference. Want to put us down, look within your own ranks and you will find the same thing. We're all supposed to be on the same side, to do what is best, do what is right, treat other people they way you want to be treated. Notice we're not bashing you. Guess that didn't mean anything to you in recruit school. I'm done with this site. Outta here. FNS

What are you currently loosing 47% of the MCO's to? Do all of them go onto being certified officers?

So you fall in the 50% that could pass the test. You max the test each year but it hasnt been given each year since 2001? You must do it on your own. And when I said 10-30% I am talking about losing 10-30% of the ones that have stayed. So add that to your 47%. You cant tell me that 47% have left just because you are not certified. Or can you? If the the case they should have went to Trooper school. I really do hope you get certified. If you want more responsibility with less pay then I say have at it.

I can and will only, speak for myself. I don't want to be a trooper! Is there any other way to say it, or explain it? The troopers we have in the department now do a great job in my opinion. Yes they make a very good wage including benefits but that is because their union worked to get them what they have today. And I say good for them simply because they deserve it. If I wanted to be a trooper I would applied for a troop school. People that make rediculous comments about the motor carriers are just plain ignorant and unprofessional. They don't want to talk about hb4321, they feel better by attempting to insult someone they don't even know. This bill does not wave the magic wand and make mco's into troopers. This bill simply aids in the effectiveness of the department of state police as a whole. I am looking forward to reading some valid reasons why this bill should'nt be approved.

You are going to be waiting a long time, because there is no valid reason for this bill not to be approved.

Lets say your right and mco's will continue to quit at a 40% plus turnover rate as they do now (studies place it is high as 47% in the past). Require certification and reimburse graduates of Michigan police academies for their tuition give them six weeks of motor carrier training and on to field training. This will cut recruitment and training cost by two thirds. I think about $18,000 vs $50,000 plus currently to graduate 9 mco's from the last MSP school!!! A win for local police academies and solution for current excessive recruitment and training cost. This would have saved the state over $300,000 this year. Thats three troops not layed off!!!!!!

with certifying officers. i have no problem with having ALL officers certified. i have a problem with a state government that thinks that it is acceptable to allow uncertified officers on the street to save money, then have those officers with the certification to write tickets out there trying to bilk money out of the public instead of protecting them. HOW DOES STOPPING RANDOM DRIVERS AT NIGHT BECAUSE IT IS AFTER 'CLOSING TIME' MAKE THE ROADS ANY SAFER, AS OPPOSED TO STOPPING THE DRIVERS THAT DISPLAY THE SIGNS OF IMAIRED DRIVING? IT DOESN'T. but that's the policy. that's what troops, and deputies, and locals do. that's not law enforcement, that's FISHING. i don't pay my law enforcement officers to go fishing every weekend. i pay them to do their job. since the troops started FISHING, the m.c.o.'s have had to 'take up the slack', and are stepping up to the plate and doing what they are supposed to do, ASKING FOR CERTIFICATION FOR SOMETHING THEY SHOULD ALREADY HAVE BEEN CERTIFIED TO DO. it's not an issue of m.c.o.'s wanting to be troops, it's an issue of the state wishing to save money, and now being bitten in the ass by it. it's also an issue of the current system going as it is for SO LONG, and nobody seeing that there was a problem. it's also an issue of having to pass laws NOW, many years later to correct that problem that SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN A PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE. if the rest of the state is mis-managed half as badly as the m.s.p., then saving this state from itself is hopeless.

It's guilty until you have proven yourself to be innocent. This state will stop at nothing to get your money. moscow 25 years ago was more free than we are today in michiganistan. "HOW DOES STOPPING RANDOM DRIVERS AT NIGHT BECAUSE IT IS AFTER 'CLOSING TIME' MAKE THE ROADS ANY SAFER, AS OPPOSED TO STOPPING THE DRIVERS THAT DISPLAY THE SIGNS OF IMAIRED DRIVING? IT DOESN'T. but that's the policy. that's what troops, and deputies, and locals do. that's not law enforcement, that's FISHING."

moscow 25 years ago you couldn't own a car. If you were were one of the lucky ones who could afford one you still couldn't buy one without the permission of the Communist head of state and usually it was a piece of crap. Then you were restricted to where you could drive. Ya, we really have it bad here!!!

we have to have the permission of the state to purchase weapons that the second amendment to our constitution guarantees our right to own. we have to have that gun registered, then safety checked (even though the check DOES NOT check for safety, it just RE-REGISTERS the gun.). then, in order to carry it around in your car, you have to get a concealed weapon permit. yeah, we don't have it as bad as communist russia, but it's getting closer.

heading that way quickly. It started when the government started giving you "Privileges" like driving. Any thing the state gives, the state can take. This is why it was so important that the constitution refers to your "god given rights". If I want to drive a car it is no business of the state unless and until I actually hurt someone else or damage their property. A license is just another tax. You sound like part of the problem. If we don't wake up soon we too will live where the state tells us, work where the state tells us and vacation where the state tells us. The state will take your guns not because they care about crime, but because politicians find it much easier to screw over an unarmed population. Why would you ever be afraid of an honest man carrying a gun? If you weren't looking to steal from him or harm him you have nothing to worry about. The dems/socialists are taking us down this road rather quickly as of late and the government educated sheeple don't seem to mind as long as they have their x-box, a couple of 40's and 100 tv stations. We might be doomed already.