Michigan Votes Forum

ONE WHO IS... not ONE who MIGHT BE. one factually innocent person. thats all. just one. not one lied upon by a "co-defendant" in order to get a lesser sentence.

i spent seven years putting people behind bars. i spent longer than that KEEPING THEM BEHIND BARS. now, i've seen the justice system from SEVERAL POINTS OF VIEW. i know how it works, because i made my living at it for a big part of my adult life. now, i know how MY system of justice works, i'm just curious as to how MICHIGANS system of justice works. i've discovered that to keep recidivism down, you keep the inmates in. it's that simple. we can talk all day about what 'could' happen, or what 'should' happen. every felon feels himself wronged. i'm interested in WHAT DID HAPPEN. i know that michigan has the highest incarceration rate in the country. that means that there are obviously more criminals here than in any other state in the union. i would say that there are simply more criminals CAUGHT here, but i can't give the local police around here THAT much credit. i don't see where this bill will give an overall savings of any money. yes, the prison expense will go down, but then again, the parole department expense will go UP. and if you think the paultry sum the inmate has to pay in any way covers the expense, think again. the average parole officer uses up more than that in gas a month just passing out paperwork. so,where is all that extra money supposed to come from? the inmate? no. the budget? no. there will have to be a tax hike to cover the expenses that this bill will incur, or else, SOME of the newly released inmates WILL NOT BE PROPERLY MONITORED.

i would say "truthful". no, not every family assists in the "wrongdoing" while it's being done, but A LOT of families TOLERATE the bad behaviour that leads up to being caught. i can't tell you how many times i've processed mothers into jail because they were beating up on the police when they came to get "her baby". i can't tell you how many mothers have lost their homes because they put it up as bond for their 'BABY', knowing he was guilty, only to have him skip. i can't tell you the amount of cases i've worked where BOTH parents are convicted of aiding and abetting before, and assisting a felon after. you should see the looks on those parent's faces when their 'BABY' sells some dope to some kid who dies, and the state pins the "murder" on "BABY". i've had to deliver THAT little message quite a few times in the last seventeen years. no, not ALL families assist. MOST try to do the right thing. they all go wrong when they allow "unconditional love" to get in the way of their decision about "right and wrong".

Just name one? That’s easy. Google “Michigan Innocence Project” and you will read, on the home page: “On June 17, 2003, Kenneth Wyniemko walked out of prison a free man after Macomb County prosecutors dismissed all charges against him. Wyniemko had been in prison since 1994, convicted of rape. Wyniemko's exoneration, after nine years of being imprisoned, was made possible by efforts of the Thomas M. Cooley Law School Innocence Project.” The Michigan Innocence Project is was initiated in 2001 by the Thomas M. Cooley Law School, in Lansing. The Project’s web site notes: “As of this date, the project has received, reviewed, and evaluated over 2,500 requests for assistance. There are a number of cases in court preparation status and several hundred under review or investigation. New requests come into the project each week.” Now go ahead and continue your quibbles and trolls. That’s all you have to contribute here, from what reasonable people can discern.

is to group all families in together and make a stupid untruthful statement that was directed towards all families of inmates, you didn't say a few you said families. Let me tell you something unconditional love for some of these families is not aiding or abetting it is not even agreement or acceptance for what their loved one has done. What it is, is the recognition that this person is human, of the same blood, someone that they have loved since birth who made a bad decision, but choose, unlike society to damn them for the rest of their live for that instance. If a person is trying to rehabilitate their is no reason for a family to just toss them out like the rest of society will do that is not what being in a family is all about at least it is definately not how I was raised. People make bad choices in life that's reality I don't have to like nor accept what this loved one did in order to have love for that person. Obviously whatever your profession is has brought you in contact with some families who have aided in the crime in one form or fashion, but do not preach to those of us who haven't for loving our family memembers and for wanting to help them become a better memember of society. Do not try to jade people's way of thinking into believing that just because we have not stopped loving our family memember that we are somehow all prone to aiding in criminal behavior. You do not know every family of these inmates so don't try to make it sound like you know all our experiences and that ....is the truth.

right? It may not be all but the point is some of you need to pick your heads up out of your hole and look at reality as some of us see it every day. People do get wrongly convicted, imprisoned, whoever thinks different is living in a dream world.

tell me how THIS case ever came to trial? is it a REAL possibility that someone can go to jail for years based on a glimpse at an attacker and NOTHING ELSE? where i come from, this case would have been shut down in the first few minutes by the assistant d.a. for insufficient evidence. even IF it made it into court, the judge SHOULD have thrown it out for the same reason. i'm still trying to find out if there was any attempt at appeal, and haven't found any. i'm also trying to find a copy of the court transcripts to determine if there were any other facts tying him to this case. so far, the record is kind of "missing"... all i'm finding is the detroit free press clipping repeated over and over. it looks as if the michigan state justice system is committing all the big BOO-BOO'S, letting murderers out early, and keeping innocents in jail. professional curiousity will keep me looking at this one very carefully. i'll keep you advised as to what i find.

couldn't happen. i asked if it DID happen.

dream world which is definately not the one you and I obviously know huh? Some people stay in their own little communities and never venture out to see the plight of others not as fortunate to realize we all don't REALLY live in the same world and not ALL of us are afforded the same opportunities to remain innocent until proven (not by illegal means either) guilty. I know that not all inmates are innocent but what I am not afraid to admit is that wrongful incarceration does happen, has happend, and will continue to happen. Furthermore I do believe that inmates can change their lives and don't care to be just another individual preaching what they don't know or have never experienced. These folks just don't understand that what people do on the street they still can do in prison if they choose but the fact that some of them want to change and choose to do what is necessary for that change should be met with these five days off of every month without misconduct. People think prison is easy a cake walk of sorts but you just don't know nothing until you've been there yourself or have visited one huh?

you know it does.

and Troll. Just as predicted.

CAJUN IS "STILL" HERE??!! GET A LIFE, MAN! GOOD GRIEF!

and those that don't like it can go pound sand up their asses.

where is the mob with torches and pitchforks? are you going to let your state get away with this? are you going to allow some insurance company to foot a couple of million dollar bill and the state get off scott-free AGAIN? why is no one calling for the removal of the prosecutor and the judge, and any politicians who were presiding at that time? one of the most important issues arising of the interaction between government and the governed, and all it gets is a shrug?

the answer is, there is no mob. all the people who care left long ago, the rest are all eaten up with apathy. so, all we have left are the people who CAUSED the problem. the "zealous" prosecutors who care not whether or not they violate the citizen's rights. the "zealous" police who put more emphasis on arrest numbers than keeping violations of citizen's rights down. then there are the citizens of michigan, who get abused at every turn, and take it because "thats the way WE do things here." they "suck it up" because they DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER. they've been abused and confused for HUNDREDS OF YEARS, and they LIKE IT. people on this thread constantly whine about prisoners needing second chances, and we must cut funds. no. like good little michiganders, all we need to do is put all our money into the bucket of the tax man when he passes, and hope he doesn't decide to take our homes. when we drive we need to just pull over and "suck it up" with whatever the police decide to give us when, not "if" they pull us over. at the polls, all we need to do is just keep on voting democratic, as they have screwed this state up for years, and there is no sense stopping now. no wonder people are leaving in droves

A lot of people in prison are for DUI or drug related getting caught with a little blow or something.The thing is these guys that are non-violent could be released today and our society would be no more violent or unsafe.The thing is they probably should've never been in prison to begin with.

excuse the people who drive drunk/high? you wish to excuse the people who 'get caught with a little blow'? what about the people who SOLD him 'a little blow'? should THEY be excused as well? i'm sure that, as a liberal, you are going to say YES.

and Troll some more. All you ever do here.

all you ever do here. i provide my opinion, not some stupid inanity. if you don't like it, please choose another site. if that is ALL you can do, please seek help. you just don't happen to agree with my opinion because you are obviously a liberal. thank you for proving the "liberalism is a mental disorder" maxim.

the point is that this is a site to provide your opinion whoever you are but it seems to me that the only thing you choose to do is to label people and to call everyone who doesn't agree with you a liberal. You are a hypocrite, and the worst kind. Just because someone does not agree with you does not make them a liberal maybe they are just alittle more informed then you. And even if they are liberals what does that have to do with these bills? The fact of the matter is not to argue political status but the merits of these bills and I'm sick of people turning that discussion into a chance to get over with their political bullshit! Find a site that let's you argue over what political party is best, don't do it here! I'm not just talking to you but to everyone this site is to debate the facts of these bills not whether a person is conservative or liberal and that is the bottom line to that!

we see.

discussed, and the only reason that can be found for this vaccine to be MANDATORY is because some LIBERAL SAYS IT HAS TO. if it were a CONSERVATIVE doing it, we'd all have the CHOICE as to whether or not we take it.

These people make me laugh. They want these people that have served their time to stay in prison. If any of these people were their family it would be so different. Why not give the people good time credit for things they have accomplished? Like getting their GED to help make them more success full. We can't forget that some of these people go to prison because they pled guilty to something they haven't even done just to not be found guilty at a trial and have to serve 5x's the amount of the plea bargin. And yes they do make charges lessor to not have to pay for trials I know first hand.

excuse you because you plead guilty to a crime you didn't commit to avoid going to trial for the one that you DID? give me a break.

I am not a person to wish bad on anyone. I really hope that someone in your family never has to got to prison because I guarantee you will feel different about the situation at hand.

wrong page wrong discussion! You obviously comment on so many pages you forgot which one you were on. Furthermore the fact remains that this is not a site to debate political preferences just the issues. You just try to bait people into an argument about dem or rep which this bill is not about that but the bills man the bills. Get off your high horse and either debate the bills based on knowledge and not insults, because insults just make you look desparate and uneducated.

I'm with you! Good post! Just because someone "disagrees" they must be a lib. Oh brother! Get a life!

have gone to jail. i have put other people in jail. i have no problem with a felon doing his time. i would expect no less if i were in jail. by the way, that's ONE reason i don't make it a habit to do things that will send me to jail.

but are we talking about you? Last time I checked if you are free no we weren't. The bottom line is that you may not have done anything to get time but every one is not you right? Sometimes people make bad decisions that is reality noone here is saying release ever inmate right now are they? What these bills propose is five days off of each month that the inmate has no misconduct tickets inside. That's the bottom line not immediate release not absolution for their crime but five days off of every month that they follow the rules. In psychology there is such a thing used called rewarded behavior that is designed to teach people and others how to act appropriately based on punishment and reward, basically these bills are doing the same thing, teaching these inmates that bad behavior has consequences and positive behavior is met with small reward.

you speak of rewarded behavior. where did you learn about this? in jail? didn't you learn about it in school, where they reward hard work and effort with good grades, and parents reward good grades with some of the 'perks' of childhood? did you not learn about CONSEQUENCES in school as well? where, when you DON'T work hard, or follow the rules, you get appropriate punishments. didn't you learn these lessons at home as well, as they were 'backed up' by your parents constantly? no, you didn't learn them. some people NEVER learn them. we pump millions of dollars into 'rehabilitation'to teach it to you, after we have pumped millions of dollars into your education in the first place. yet, you STILL chose to commit the crime. your time to be rewarded has passed, you missed it. your time to be punished is now.

I've never been in jail or in trouble with the law in my life stupid so as for your little tyrade save it because that's not me. Yes some people are taught as kids and yes some aren't some have to learn the hard way and some don't. Everyone in the world is not the same nor learn the same. What if they didn't have someone who gave a shit enough to teach them? You just group everyone as having the same upbringing I guess well I'm here to let you know some don't get it. What I'm saying is that yes they obviously made bad decisions but there is a possibility of rehabilitation and there are those inmates who do learn from being incarcerated.

i was just wondering

is the unauthorized asking of a question to an 'under the over-pass' dweller. they can't stand to have their views questioned, nor can they tolerate anyone who doesn't agree with their political views. if you are 'in sync' with those views, you shouldn't have to ask questions. anyone who DOES ask questions is obviously 'out of sync' and needs to be ignored.

It's what you do best!

convicted criminals DESERVE a 'second chance'? tell me why they DON'T deserve to do the ENTIRE sentence they were given? while you are at it, tell me why we should release inmates to stop a spending problem? i'm sick of hearing 'he's paid his debt to society'. every person's 'debt to society' is to be an active, productive, positive participant in that society, every day. it is NOT to be a criminal. that person's 'debt to society' will be paid in full when he spends the rest of his life crime free. it's not an impossibility, as you seem to believe it is. the FIRST STEP is believing that YOU MUST CONTRIBUTE POSITIVELY TO SOCIETY, not be a burden upon it. that means that every inmate, once released, should work hard to positively influence society, and should continue to work to positively influence society, without fanfare, without glory, and sometimes without notice, till the day they die. just like the rest of us. those that can't, or won't, don't deserve to be part of that society and should be shunned forever.

600 bills proposed, and no laws passed. not one of these bills does ANYTHING to cure the ills of michigan. not one. moving the opening date of deer season won't do it. allowing gays and lesbians to adopt, contrary to the state constitution won't do it. mandating young girls get vaccinated against a sexually transmitted disease won't do it. mandating and enforcing FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY might. cutting state spending (forcefully if necessary) might do it. cutting out DO NOTHING PROGRAMS might do it. cutting taxes might do it. simplifying state government to make it easier for businesses to succeed might do it. upholding the rights of it's citizens might do it. upholding the sanctity of property ownership might do it. none of these things has been tried yet.

you. And to answer your question if they do their miinimum that is within the setence that they were given. These five days off of every month really will fall within that and will not be given to those who do not start proving while in incarceration that they are trying to get on that right road to productivity.

was designed to authorize SINGLE TERM SENTENCING, not minimum/maximum sentencing. that means, if you get TEN YEARS, you DO ten years. conformity to prison rules should be the expected norm, not the circumstance necessary for early release. NOT conforming to prison rules should add on more time. i also think that any calculation of ANY good time should begin only AFTER the minimum time has been reached without incident. i also believe that ANY good time should be lost with ANY infraction of ANY prison rule.

I agree with Anonymous. Thank God for Mr. Cushingberry!! Pass these 2 Bills!!

I support Bills 4262 & 4263. Thank God for Mr. Cushingberry!!