Michigan Votes Forum

A Good Government Schooled Usefull Idiot.

They're Coming After You By Walter E. Williams Wednesday, February 13, 2008 My February 2002 column, "They're Coming After You," warned that Americans who enthusiastically supported the anti-tobacco zealots' attack on smokers were, like decent Germans did during the 1920s and '30s, building the Trojan Horse that would one day enable a tyrant to take over. The whole issue of tobacco smoke nuisance is really a private property issue where the owner should decide how his private property shall be used, whether it's an office building, restaurant, bar or home. That's unless one group of people wishes to use the coercive powers of government, in the name of health or some other ruse, to impose their preferences upon others. Anti-tobacco zealots don't have a monopoly on tyrannical designs. There are those who wish to control what we eat, and the successful attack on smokers has provided a template for their agenda. Chief among the food tyrants is the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Science in the Public Interest (CSPI). These tyrants want taxes on foods they deem as non-nutritious. They've even proposed a 5 percent tax on new television sets and video equipment and a $65 tax on each new car or an extra penny per gallon of gas. Why? They see watching television and videos, riding instead of walking, as contributing to obesity. Thus, in their view, just as tobacco companies were responsible for people smoking, television and video manufacturers are responsible for people being couch potatoes. Automobile companies are responsible for people riding instead of walking. The restaurant industry is responsible for American obesity. Some people have told me that these tyrants would never get away with controlling what we eat. Here's the Mississippi Legislature House Bill 282, introduced this year by Rep. W.T. Mayhall, that in part reads: "An Act to prohibit certain food establishments from serving food to any person who is obese, based on criteria prescribed by the State Department of Health; to direct the Department to prepare written materials that describe and explain the criteria for determining whether a person is obese and to provide those materials to the food establishments; to direct the Department to monitor the food establishments for compliance with the provisions of this act." The bill proposes to revoke licenses of food establishments that violate the provisions of the act.

I'm really disappointed in my party voting against this bill. Not all of us go to bars, but we do go to restaurants and most of them have bars. We have to go through smoke to be seated and even after that still end up choking on one persons cigarette. It seems more and more people have asthma (including myself) we cannot not tolerate smoke. Maybe if some of you ever had the feeling of not be able to breathe you might think differently. Don't tell me that I need not frequent these places, because they are all over. We are tired of dealing with this. I've complained to restaurant owners to know avail. I can no longer and haven't for years enjoyed the sport of bowling because of it. I can't see my favorite sports because of it. My favorite Aunt died of Emphysema a horrible death because of smoking. I don't want the government to rule all of our lives. Think of this as cutting down on polution. Isn't that the big thing now. I will not give up until every public place has no smoking ban including casinos. I don't care if you smoke in your home or car just not in front of me or anywhere I go, which won't be in your car or home. You won't be smoking in mine.

You guys need to get a life. All the places Mr. Musician you named have smoking areas too. You can't get away from it. So you're saying it's not harmful. Maybe you should get asthma and tell me that. I have it and number of people that I work with have it too. No we don't work in a smoking environment now, but over the years it's taken a toll. I wouldn't have it now if I hadn't worked in jobs when smoking was allowed. (Talked to my Plumonary Doctor) Now I choke and cough all the time. I take numerous medicines. Have you ever saw someone die from Emphysema? It's not pretty and takes years and they usaully die from something else brought on by this terrible disease. We're tired of you know-it- alls telling us what we need. Until you have lived it, you don't know what your talking about. You smoke outside (usually too close to the entrance of buildings now what's a few more. I don't care if you smoke in your home or your car. I won't smoke in them. You won't smoke in mine.

Trying to except the bars from the law? Bad idea. Vote time coming. Tom King

35 others states have passed similar legislation,and it is about time Michigan does the same. Besides it is just your addiction talking.

Are all smokers stupid? This has to do to with the health of the workers,period. Find another addition,like reading.

I agree. He has done a fine job.

Another idiot. All LOW IQ'S. Anonymous Citizen

You all continue to miss the point on this one. Worker health is the issue,but the addicts never mention it. Maybe they can't read.

health any of the GOVERNMENTS BUSINESS???

It all started when the useful idiots bought into the story that the government is their mommy and will always be there for them and tell them what they can and can't do. The problem will come soon when they find out that their new mommy is bi-polar and starts to beat them.

The point of the ban on smoking in all public places is a tricky one but if achieved, ultimately, is for the greater good. Government's role unfortunately must include provisioning limitations upon the people. The fundamental purpose of government is the maintenance of basic security and public order. The arguments for and against the ban are blended by smokers and non-smokers along with those with facts and those with emotion. The reality of smoking modern tobacco is the undeniable health risks associated with the smoke, most notably, the smoke that is not directly inhaled by the smoker: specifically the direct burn generated smoke and exhaled smoke, collectively term "second-hand smoke". If smoke could maintain its boundaries so that only the smoker experienced the smoke, the public ban issue would have little merit (health risks aside). However, we all know that smoke has no such boundaries and depending on environmental conditions wafts through the air for any number of others to experience. This is the premise for taking action to protect those in the public even if some in society disagree, and yes, it does impose further limitations on freedoms. Freedom is not unlimited. The old saying that a man is free to swing his fist until it reaches my nose, gives us all humorous insight from a time long gone that we must be allowed individual freedoms as long as our exercising individual freedoms do not "hit someone else in the nose" ... Smoke if you want, it's your privilege. However, consider all those around you that you by proxy (through smoking) "hit in the nose"....

is responsibility. each freedom comes with at least one. part of that responsibility is YOUR freedom to be responsible for YOUR health. it's not up to me to keep YOU healthy. it's up to you. and it's NOT up to the GOVERNMENT to make me keep YOU healthy. it's also not up to the GOVERNMENT to make ME pay to keep YOU healthy. but, as a liberal, you don't see it that way.

to live in a pig sty,you give up your freedom from pig shit on your shoes. if your safety is more important to you than your freedom, then stay where you can be safe. it's a simple decision.

Indicating that fat people and fast food sellers are next to loose liberties and freedoms based on the same premise of the proposed ban on second-hand smoke would only make sense if while eating my delicious, and yes bad for me whopper sandwich(perhaps equal with smoking...not!), the sauce from my burger lept off the sandwich or from my mouth and splatterd all over everyone eating at tables 0-25 feet away and then somehow made it into their own mouths and into their stomachs.... I hope anyone can see that argument is absurd. Most (not all) smokers have little regard for their own health, the people around them in public, and god-forgive them, their own children of which are the most forgotten in this whole ban topic. Besides blowing smoke in everybody's else face (invited or not) most smokers habitually litter. I'm not sure why they think cigarettes are any better than any other form of refuse ... perhaps they actually think it's part of nature and will help the soil or something .... has a smoker actually read the ingredients in cigarettes and the toxins found in them .... shameful ... nothing but shameful, dirty, and disgusting.

exercising YOUR personal responsibility to be healthy. what are you doing hanging around where people smoke??? no one says you MUST be there. there is no one FORCING you to be there. you MUST be there by choice. once again, if you CHOOSE to live in a pig sty, you LOSE your right to be FREE FROM PIG SHIT ON YOUR SHOES. either make BETTER LIFE CHOICES FOR YOURSELF or LIVE WITH PIG SHIT ON YOUR SHOES. you can't force the pigs to quit shitting without killing them. if you can't do the first without a 'nanny' helping you along, you'd better get used to varying kinds and degrees of the second. good luck with that.

No one forces you to go to a smoking establishment. It's your CHOICE. Don't go crying when the government takes your choices away for having internet or pay them money, It will happen too.

As a bar owner I will be letting all my customers , who will not be in it as often because they will drink at home where they can smoke, know who voted which way. I hope you all remember this come election time and know you took away another choice the voter couldn't make for themselves.

here in michiganistan want a mommy government. Good luck. I'll be closing my bar and moving to a state where I only have to compete against other business, not the government jerks using my tax dollars to try to ruin my business. See Ya

It ain't about your health. It's about government control. Smoking first (because chicken littles like you make it easy to take that one) next trans fats and foie gras. Who knows what little special interest group will decide they don't like and want to use the iron fist of government to ban it. How much of your freedom are you willing to give up? I hope you have fun sitting in your prius in front of the closed up bar. You will be lonely because the fun people aren't going to invite you to their party. We are doomed as long as people like you are allowed to vote.

Thank you, thank you, thank you! If Italy and Spain and NYC can go non-smoking, why not Michigan? I've stayed away from bars and restaurants due to the heavy smoke. I think the bar owners may even see an increase in business because there are way more non-smokers than smokers. Thank you, Senators, for passing this bill.

nine R.I.N.O.'s who DON'T value rights and freedoms. maybe we shouldn't vote for them. let's elect REAL REPUBLICANS WHO VALUE RIGHTS AND LIBERTY.

Wonderful! I never went to bars before because I couldn't stand the smoke. I think I'll start going now!

Birkholz (R) Brown (R) Cassis (R) George (R) Jelinek (R) Kahn (R) McManus (R) Pappageorge (R) Patterson (R)

People like you are the reason we are losing our personal freedoms! If you don't like a smokey bar open your own non-smoking bar! If you want to live in socialist Italy, Spain, New York or any of the other nanny countries please feel free to do so. Don't stay here with your socialiat attitude and try to relieve me of my constitutional rights! The people in this country better stand up against this nonsense before we have no more freedoms left to fight for!

You don't go to the bars because you have no friends and can't get along with others because you are a socialist control freak.

you say "I've stayed away from bars and restaurants due to the heavy smoke" I say, show me where these bars full of so called heavy smoke are at. I go to a bunch and the ventilation is amazingly good. Now that we are a socialist nanny state I want a law to make all chubby and obese people get on a scale before they are allowed to order dinner. Fat control freaks, sorry, you get bean sprouts until you get down to the state mandated weight. You people disgust me. You Say "bar owners may even see an increase in business" I say, this is why you aren't a in business. If you kick out 25% (actually lots more than that with non smoking friends of smokers) of your customers you will not do more business. You must have been educated by the state to think that less is more. Hey, send me 25% of your money and then you " may even see an increse in your bank account".

Many, many bars, bowling alleys, casino's, restaurants absolutely wreak of smoke. I can smell it on my jacket, shirt, even undershirt after being there for an hour or two. I'm an ultra conservative, pro-freedom, and I even own some tobacco stock. But I don't want to breathe in polluted air, just as I'm sure you wouldn't want to live right next door to a toxic waste dump. What's the correlation between overweight people and smokers? Smokers are polluting the air. Just think of it this way. If some of the smokers end up quitting because of this law, they may live longer to patronize your bar!

The bars REEK of smoke -- not wreak. This law appears to be wreaking havoc, though. Can't wait for it to be over and done with so we're smoke free. I will call it Smoke-Freedom Day!

You are a bunch of socialists pretending to be republicans. Shame on you. I have never smoked and think it is none of your blasted business to tell a private citizen they cannot smoke in their own facility. FREE WILL. Remember what free will used to be before you all voted and took yet more rights away from us. PICK UP YOUR BOTTOMS AND TAKE THEM TO ANOTHER BAR IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE AIR. You people can't shut down business fast enough in this state can you? That's funny that you'd be concerned about one thing that supposedly causes cancer and not another thing-- being booze. What about our caloric intake? Aren't you afraid that we'll eat too many greasey burgers or something? You boys are looking pretty fat to me. It's time to tighten your belts because we're coming for your jobs and you'll be on a diet soon-- the same diet you've put the poor citizens of this state on;It's called not enough money left over from being taxed to death to by groceries!!!

I'd be more concerned with the carbon foot print you've left behind in your journeys to Spain, NYC, and Italy in your quest for smoke-free bars then speering on the inevidable social government we're ending up with in Michigan to appease a few spoiled bratts like you. Why don't you take your lust for socialism across the boarder to Canada where "Mommy Government" will gladly take your (I can only imagine) 'trust money' that your mommy and daddy left you to persue such high lofty goals such as the one you just spelled out. You must suffer so! Not to mention how thirsty you must be. Maybe you should switch to water.

Quit griping, bar owners. http://www.makemiairsmokefree.org/know-the-facts.php says: "Research on smokefree communities in California, Massachusetts, Oregon, Texas, New York and Florida show that smokefree air ordinances had no negative effect on bar sales."

Smokers don't get it - you want the government out of your business but you also want to be protected at work by OHSA and you'd be the first to sue if you think you are exposed to something. I see it daily. The workers in the casinos, bars and restaurants want protection too. Yes, patrons can go elsewhere - like the Windsor Casino, but people need the jobs here. I have been in a Detroit casino and twice a smoker has sat next to me and actually blew the smoke in my face. When I move my chair to get away, I have been told "Its my right - leave if you don't like it!!" You ask about 2nd hand smoke deaths..besides my own mother, whose death certificate says "second hand smoke", I can name several others. I work as a public health consultant and it is not unusual. As a consultant I have interviewed many of these workers and they want it to be smoke free too but are afraid to complain and lose their job. Take 2 minutes to Google 'prenatal smoke exposure' and see for yourself what the pregant worker has to worry about in these places. Of course she can quit but not only does she lose her job but that may be her family's only sourse of health care. Or go to the web site for the Center for Disease Control (www.cdc.gov) and search second hand smoke, you'll be informed & appauled. Think before you make the stupid statements that your rights are violated. You don't like it - go to the designated smoking area and confine the smoke to yourself and others that are addicted and leave the healthy lungs around you alone.

Congrats' to the politicians. Even our childrens teachers-- and I'm talking the cream of the crop are leaving Michigan to move to, as they put it, "a happier state." You State Reps' need to wake up in Lansing. Your job is not to run business out of this state. No more lost jobs. No more taxes. Spend time only finding solutions that don't cost us any more lost business or lost people. What's wrong with you people? Do you honestly think passing bills to bring the movie industries to Michigan and bills that take personal rights away solve anything? Most bars are barely getting by because people can not afford to drink out at a bar. So the few that can, which are usually smokers, are now not allowed to smoke. O.K. so now you've effectively run those people off. By the way, I don't smoke. But I sure as hack don't tell others what to do. And it's not true that you can't find an area that says no smoking. Every bar that sells food has a no smoking area.

exercising YOUR freedom to be healthy. you are FREE to leave that person well alone, simply because he smokes. that is YOUR DECISION, and only YOU should make it. if it requires the assistance of government, you are a sad individual. if YOU decide to be healthy at all costs, then, by all means, pay those costs yourself, don't ask others to pay it for you. you have NO RIGHT to MY MONEY, or MY FREEDOMS. MY FREEDOMS are as important to me as yours are to you, maybe moreso. ask yourself, what is a good reason to take someone's freedoms away. if you come up with any, other than that person has committed a crime, you are a liberal.

"research shows", the FACT is, bars that have prohibited smoking have closed. by the way, florida and louisiana have PASSED no smoking ordinances, then REPEALED THEM because of LOST TAX REVENUE FROM LOST BUSINESS. go figure.

As a former restaurant employee and performer with zero insurance who was forced to breathe 2nd hand smoke for 25 years in restaurants and bars across the nation and now has asthma and 2nd hand smoke breathing problems (I have never smoked) I rejoice in maybe being able to take my neices and nephews where there is no smoking. Someday I hope to be able to go hear music without having to take an oxygen tank. Smoking should not be in an enclosed structure where anyone else must suffer the addictions of another. 2nd hand smoke is worse for the non smoker. A fact. Go do your homework. No smoking in any building-including casino's. Period. Go sit in your car. Quit smoking and buy yourself a new house.

As a former restaurant employee and performer with zero insurance who was forced to breathe 2nd hand smoke for 25 years in restaurants and bars across the nation and now has asthma and 2nd hand smoke breathing problems (I have never smoked) I rejoice in maybe being able to take my neices and nephews where there is no smoking. Someday I hope to be able to go hear music without having to take an oxygen tank. Smoking should not be in an enclosed structure where anyone else must suffer the addictions of another. 2nd hand smoke is worse for the non smoker. A fact. Go do your homework. No smoking in any building-including casino's. Period. Go sit in your car. Quit smoking and buy yourself a new house.

Maybe your not getting enough oxygen.