Michigan Votes Forum

I do not understand why anyone thinks the governent should make our choices. The government has NO business telling me what or how to run my business. I as an American, do not need the govenment to make my choices. I particular like to do that myself. Also, the sale of cigaretts is legal. IF YOU feel so strong about this issue, then why not lobby to make the sale of them illegal? I am so sick of the government thinking they are smarter than me, and they should make my decisions, when they do not pay my bills, or support my business. Go figure, as every day, more and more people think they know what is best for me and my business.....This is so wrong, so terribly wrong.

You Say .."I've been seated in a non-smoking section and there's still heavy smoke either in the air, or across the aisle where smoking is allowed." I was in a restaurant last night with my non smoking wife. We were seated in the evil smoking section. Two guys at the next table left. After they were gone my wife noticed two cigar buts in the ashtray. Neither one of us noticed that they were smoking at all, let alone a cigar. If you can smell smoke in the non smoking section of most restaurants then you should go get a job as a drug dog for the dea. If you think the air will get cleaner, then you are delusional. The owners will save money by not having to exchange the air as often. When they outlawed smoking on airplanes they went from 10 to 12 total air exchanges per hour to abou 1 or 2. This is why you can't hardly fly today without getting sick since you are breathing the same stinky air over and over. One other thing, without smoke to cover it you're going to find out that some people smell pretty bad. We will fix this also when we force all those chubbies to lose weight or else.

Patronize better places, or maybe you are lying and don't ever go out because there are very few bars or restaurants today that have "heavy smoke" in the air. Typical lying control freak lib. Whatever you do is okay as long as it pushes your agenda. Pathetic

Where's the ACLU to defend business owner's rights? Their businesses will close.... Another sad day for Michigan and America....

"do not understand why people think it is the governments right to tell business owners what they can and cannot do in THEIR business" They do this everyday. They license businesses AND even employees. It's getting ridiculous. Real estate agents, insurance agents, inspectors, many contractors, all must be licensed. This stifles the market. Government says businesses can't sell liquor before noon on Sunday, to minors, to intoxicated people. Alcohol can't be given away for free in Michigan, or offered 2 for 1. Cigarettes can't be sold to minors, or even be sold in certain businesses/areas of businesses. Full nudity is prohibited. Do away with it all, I tell ya!!!!!!!!!!

I can't say I'm a Libertarian, but I do share many of their views; I'd like to completely eliminate the federal income tax and cut government spending dramatically. This means no IRS, no welfare, no social security, no paying farmers not to farm, and absolutely no socialized medicine. I'd like a strong defense dept. to make sure we can stay free. If we need add'l taxes to run the gov't, I'd have a national sales tax -- that way, the drug dealers and other criminals earning money under the table will pay taxes as they purchase goods. I am for freedom, but maybe my idea is different from yours -- I want to be free to breathe clean air. So there you have it -- a fiscally conservative individual who also prefers the gov't to ban smoking in public places.

believes in taking away other's rights. just like i said. it's YOUR world view. be proud of it. why not just let people smoke, refuse to pay the bills for it, and let their 'chips' fall where they may? it's not YOU smoking, after all. you are still free to CHOOSE to not patronize anyplace where the patrons are smoking. that way, everybody is free, not just you. or is that just not good enough for the libertarian with a WEE SLICE OF LIBERAL.

So, by "patronize better places," you mean ones that are smoke free? Have you ever been to a bowling alley? How about any of the casinos in Detroit? Almost any bar -- we went to one yesterday for dinner, sat in the non-smoking section as far away from the smokers as possible and we still could breathe the smoke and our clothes smelled of smoke. No, the only "better places" we've found are those that are already smoke free. There aren't enough of them to go around, though, so choices are limited at those establishments. I resent you calling me a "lib." I'm quite the opposite.

find these 'smoke free bars' and patronize them exclusively. don't go bowling (you ARE free to decide NOT TO BOWL, you know.) don't go to the detroit casinos (you are also free to decide NOT TO GAMBLE.) if being without smoke is THAT important to you, make the LIFE CHANGES that are required to make that happen. don't whine about it. don't change EVERYONE ELSE'S LIFE simply because you are too WEAK WILLED to change your own.

our lib posted a glistening nugget of truth... "No, the only "better places" we've found are those that are already smoke free. There aren't enough of them to go around, though, so choices are limited at those establishments." now, if there aren't enough of them to 'go around', as the lib says, there MUST NOT BE A BIG DEMAND FOR THEM. if the 'choices are limited', it MUST be limited by MARKET DEMAND. so, our lib wants the STATE to step in and give him MORE CHOICES IN HIS ENTERTAINMENT, all the while stripping rights from free people. please, mr. lib. show us where in the constitution you find that this is the job of government.

Where's my liberty? Why can't I go bowling or gambling in a smoke-free environment? As I said before, this bill is WAY OVERDUE! I can't be happier about the prospect of going out on the town and breathing fresh air INSIDE public restaurants, bars, etc.

I do have some favorite restaurants / bars that I go to because the food is so good. I just tolerate the smoke. I don't like it. In fact, at times, I really hate it. But I keep going there because I like everything about it, except the smoke. Take a look at this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans_in_the_United_States You can't argue that it's just a matter of time before we enact non-smoking throughout the country, for the good of all. I support the right to bear arms, but I don't see anything in our constitution that says we have a right to bear cigarettes and cigars in public buildings, polluting the air of other free individuals.

We regulate restaurants all the time when it comes to health.

I know I've been waiting for a law like this for 20+ years. This is one of the best things that can happen to Michigan. I see great backing for this from all citizens -- liberal and conservative. God Bless America!

I support the smoking ban.

go back to reading eye charts and leave the messy business of freedom to the adults. Just for the record, I support the ban on liberals being allowed to vote, it hasn't been working out too well. Seems they want to give socialism yet another try.

If this goes through it will be the start of God Bless Amerika.

before we go totally socialist and the state tells you where to live and how warm you can keep your house. "You can't argue that it's just a matter of time before we enact non-smoking throughout the country, for the good of all." With people like you voting that wouldn't know freedom it it bit you we are doomed. Hey,as long as they do what you want it's okay to use the iron fist of the state to tell PRIVATE business owners what they can do.

The House approved a measure that banned smoking in almost all public places; they exempted casinos, race tracks, bingo halls, and tobacco shops. The Senate's version included casinos, race tracks, bingo halls, and tobacco shops, so it is much more fair. I'm curious to see if the House will pass the Senate's version; maybe the casinos are filling their wallets? I don't know. But they SHOULD vote for this bill. We will have a much more wonderful Michigan, if smoking is not allowed in these public places. Honorable Representatives: Please do the right thing and pass this legislation!

and leave us alone. It's not your job to run private business. Go cut some spending, then cut taxes and get this state moving again. With this stupid law you will put more people on unemployment. Is This Your Goal??????

That this bill does not just ban smoking in bars and restaurants. It bans smoking in all workplaces, including bars and restaurants. It is written to protect the health of employees, who certainly are entitled to that consideration in our modern society.

Someone that has been harmed by so called second hand smoke. Why does your nanny government have allowable limits of carbon monoxide that I can breath in the workplace but cigaratte smoke is zero? Why is there an allowable limit of soot that I can breath at work but cigarette smoke is zero?

Smoking is an optional personal habit, and not something inherent in the industrial process. Absolutist thinking and argument of the sort you are making about CO and soot limitations to justify your being allowed to blow smoke on co-workers is irrational. If hazard produced by optional (and completely unnecessary) personal habits can be eliminated from the work environment that cannot be a bad thing. That is why many -- even most -- businesses today have established no smoking rules in their facilities. And whether you want to believe it or not, second-hand smoke is a hazard. The choking sensation and irritation I and others get in our lungs when passing through a cloud of it is all we need (or should need) to recognize that fact.

"blow smoke on co-workers" I don't know any smoker that does this. You are delusional. "something inherent in the industrial process." This could also be fixed but it would cost a bunch and your do gooder, look at me I care about you dems wouldn't want to lose their big donations so that they can keep feeding at the public teat. Why is it thatt the dem version exempts casinos??????????? "And whether you want to believe it or not, second-hand smoke is a hazard" Again I ask, show me someone who has been harmed by your so called second hand smoke. "The choking sensation and irritation I and others get in our lungs when passing through a cloud of it is all we need (or should need) to recognize that fact." B.S. If you are that sensative then pollen season must be a ball for you. I think you are either exagerating or flat out lying.

That is why the Constitution tried to erect barriers to government power, of which property rights were one. But, once judges started saying that "the public interest" over-rides property rights, that left politicians free to call whatever they wanted to do "the public interest." Neither economics nor property rights are too "complex" to understand. But both get in the way of willful people who seek to deny other people the right to make their own decisions.

Thanks for your civility in calling me a liar. The fact is, I have worked in an environment where smokers blew smoke on co-workers. This happened when in-building smoking was prohibited by the business owner. Smokers clustered around the employee entrance sucking on their cancer sticks, and exhaling their noxious (and toxic) clouds on everyone coming in or going out the door. Numerous employees experienced choking and lung irritation as they passed through the noxious (toxic) cloud. Unlike pollen, which also can irritate some people's lungs and cause health problems, tobacco smoke does not occur naturally in the workplace or just outside the workplace door. It is produced by human beings engaging in an optional, totally unnecessary behavior. Tobacco smoke is a noxious (toxic) substance that is not inherently necessary in the work environment. To eliminate unnecessary hazard or irritation to employees is a good thing. For anyone to insist it is somehow his or her right to inlflict irritation or harm on others in the course of pursuing their own pleasure through purely elective habit or activity in the workplace or any public place is the epitome of narcisssism and desire for control over others' lives. It is irrational, and illegitimate.

"It is produced by human beings engaging in an optional, totally unnecessary behavior." Which you don't like so you want to use the iron fist of government to get it your way. "Smokers clustered around the employee entrance sucking on their cancer sticks, and exhaling their noxious (and toxic) clouds on everyone coming in or going out the door." If you can't hold your breath for the 5 seconds it takes you to walk through the "noxious (and toxic) clouds" then maybe it's time for a diet and some bans on those french fries that caused your problem. Again, you are a control freak. The world ain't Burger King. You can't have everything your way even though your mommy might have told you that you could.

Why should I have to "hold my breath" in order to avoid inhaling tobacco smoke while entering the place where I earn my living? You don't need to smoke. You do it for your own personal pleasure. You have no inherent right to inflict it on me. Your prediliction to invade my space makes you the smoke Nazi here. Not me. My right to breathe naturally in the out-of-doors is absolutely inherent in concept of "inalienable" right to life. Your right to blow smoke in my face is only a figment of your infertile and warped imagination. Have a nice day.

BY FORCE OR BY FREEDOM, however, leftists pursue the same ends: the abolition of private property, marriage, and traditional religion.

Every other state that has banned smoking has ecempted tobacco shops, because smoking is integral to what they do. They don't compete with bars, restaurants or anywhere else. This bill will put them out of business. And Indian casinos are exempted, so Detroit's casinos are not on a level field. That's why they're fighting it.

pertain to 3 month old fetuses? Just asking. You sound pretty sanctimonius in trying to beat up the guy that doesn't want any more infringments on his freedom. "My right to breathe naturally in the out-of-doors is absolutely inherent in concept of "inalienable" right to life."

does the topic of abortion have to do with a bill to ban smoking in places of employment, o superciliously Sanctimonious One who somehow believes a fetus in a woman's womb is entitled to the same rights and considerations as a fully formed, viable, living and breathing (on its own), functioning human being?

This doesn't sound like it describes you. A fully functioning human would never look to the nanny government for everything. So I take it that you have a "right" to breath what you want but a fetus does not deserve that chance.

The leftys/socialists/dems have convinced the dumb masses that they will save them from every bogeyman that the media can dream up, from global warming to global cooling to second hand smoke. All they have to do is give up their freedom and most of them seem more than willing to do just that. I just wish that they wouldn't give up my freedom also. In the 60's we were all hippies. Some of us grew up and some turned into liberals.

even my brain works, which yours evidently does not.

Go take your prozac and settle down. Didn't mean to get your panties all bunched up, just trying to get you to see the big picture.

on it's own is the defining factor for 'life'??? we'll remember that when you're on a ventilator.

failed to exercise your freedom to NOT WORK WHERE PEOPLE SMOKE. what part of that don't you get???? go get a job that is NOT HAZARDOUS TO YOUR HEALTH if it's THAT IMPORTANT TO YOU. obviously it ISN'T. YOU KEEP WORKING THERE. KWITCHYERBITCHIN.

personal habit, not inherent to the industrial process. having indiscriminate sex is an optional personal habit not inherent to the industrial process. being a liberal is an optional personal habit not inherent to the industrail process. voting is an optional personal habit, not inherent to the industrial process. defending yourself in a violent confrontation is an optional personal habit, not inherent to the industrial process. freedom itself is an optional personal habit, not inherent to the industrial process. but liberals seem to have forgotten that.

Tell our vets that they can't smoke in a place that they pay yearly dues to belong. Alot of our vets began to smoke because the gov't gave them free cig.