Michigan Votes Forum

You forgot China! If you go to China, you can buy a pack of cigarettes for 25 cents, but you rarely see a blue sky due to their air pollution. That's what absense of an EPA can do. My advice to you is: Grow up! We live in a democracy, where the majority rules. The majority of people are non-smokers, and are grateful to our legislators for passing this bill.

Another example of the taking of private property. Of course, they argue that this is what the citizens want. So they are going to allow the erosion of property rights based upon the tyranny of the majority.....we are living in a very dangerous time.

I would love to go out karaokeing and bowling but I only go once or twice a year because I can't handle the smoke. They'll actually get MORE business in my opinion.

Ok, let me take your property rights. I don't smoke but no one has a right to tell me what I can do with my private property. If you don't like going to a smokey bar, don't go. You have no right to take others rights away from them. How long will people stand by while government chips away at your freedom. Like a typical liberal, "it's ok to take others freedom...we know whats best for them".

You have the freedom not to go there. Instead, you want to take away the rights of private property owners. You can't see the slippery slope you are on? Whats next?

Wow, you really think you know what's best for everyone else don't you?

Scary

I say, this is why you aren't a in business. If you kick out 25% (actually lots more than that with non smoking friends of smokers) of your customers you will not do more business. You must have been educated by the state to think that less is more. If ALL bars and restaurants are REQUIRED to be non-smoking then HOW are you kicking out 25% of your customers? Are you saying that 25% of people would rather stay home and eat so they can smoke continuously while they are eating instead of going out to a nice restaurant and waiting until they leave to light up? Please! Now who is being a baby. The only loss of business that owners experience when going non-smoking is when they have a competitor who still takes smoking customers. If EVERYONE is required to be non-smoking you can't loose any business because it has no where to go!

And it's not true that you can't find an area that says no smoking. Every bar that sells food has a no smoking area. Seriously, if you have 100 people in a bar chain smoking there is no where in that bar that you can sit and breath and not go home stinking of wretched smoke!

Bars that have prohibited smoking have stayed open and even prospered.

I am looking foward to not being the bad

No one is holding a gun to your head when you enter a bar. You can choose not to drink at that watering hole. You could stay home and get cancer of the liver without complaining about someone elses' bar you cry baby. Hey here's an idea- open your own bar. Honestly though you're missing the point. Someones' freedom to run their establishment the way they want just had their freedoms taken away again. This law might have benefited you. But here's a news flash- the next person that has their rights taken away could be you. The idea is no more laws. YOU Need to grow up and take responsibility i.e., take yourself somewhere else if you don't like the air. Don't look to the government to solve all your problems.

What about those of us who work for minimum wage in the food industry and have jerks for bosses who smoke wherever they want. If any of us says anything, it would be like world war 3 and life at work would get even more difficult. Where I work, there are no open doors or windows and my boss will smoke over a pack a day. Which means I am also smoking (second-hand) a pack a day. We used to have an employee there who had some illness that was aggravated by the smoke. He was a teenager and enjoyed his job, but it kept putting him in the hospital. My boss knew of this condition and still smoked around this boy. Eventually, his mother made him quit. If this law had been enacted back then, this boy could have stayed at his job and probably not have had so many trips to the hospital. Although I do see how some would see this as an intrusion on our private lives, I feel that the government should step in for the better health of our younger generations and those who cannot speak up for themselves.

China has pollution because of the carbon emissions it puts out not the cigs they smoke you twerp. And don't even start with the EPA, which has nothing to do with your wanting cancer of the liver instead of the lungs. I don't smoke or drink. Having said that I know when Lansing wants to take one of your rights away I won't be a selfish poop egging them on. I should think that the reps in Lansing had better start solving our jobless problems and not worry about your lack of knowledge with regard to the EPA and confusions over China's pollution problems. And by the way, when bills are passed it isn't always because a majority really wants to see it passed- they (reps) make deals with one another to push certain bills through. I'll pat your back if you pat mine. There were no studies done for this last bill that said "X" amount of Michigainders want no smoking in the bars. Weren't you paying attention when Lansing started with what I like to call the back door approach (which is by no means a new phrase). Yeah, see they start with one target, which isn't always the real target. Then the reps. get enough votes for that because it will be either bi-partisan or not enough Michigainders are paying attention. Then when they get that passed, they go in for the kill and steam roll over everyone in their path. Pay attention and learn. Do you honestly think for example that the majority of citizens in Michigan wanted a bill passed to shoot and kill Turtle Doves? --- Daaa...?

Well now that the health Nazi's have passed this insane bill to strangulate the rights of private property owners..... Guess what kiddies? All you bleeding hearts that whined about not going to bars because of the smoke getting in your widdew eyes, don't cry for long. Next they will attempt to ban alcohol and it's consumption. You think not becuase of the revenue generted, think again. Look what tobacco tax has paid for, schools, Medicaid and on and on........well no more because the revenue will go down. Just check out the states who have the ban in place alrady. THen take another look at the states that are "dry". Look at the standard of living because of lack of tax revenue. Get ready MICHIGAN......... CANADA is coming across the border, we already have one of it's so called finest running our state. When will you all wake up and get rid of these control freak, pacifist, do gooders in Lansing who obviously have no clue about what the MAJORITY wants and does not care.

Just say “No” to government making rules to butt in (pun intended) to the right to own and operate a business. Stop taking our tax money to turn around and tie our hands. Now that our government has passed this law, I will be expecting to see the entirety of the cigarette tax repealed. Since you are solving the second hand smoke issue and saving boo-coo lives, you won’t need that hefty tax to save me from myself. FORK IT OVER. I’m waiting….

Nine Rino's You are absolutely on to something here. We need to circulate these nine names. Let's find places to post their names. If we take this approach everytime the rats cause problems, we may affect enough voters to make a difference.

I like the way you think! People are having their rights taken away every day. Wake up people. You're next!

I did not know that we had so many Republicans who think like Fascists! The nobility over the serfs. Dictating what private businesses can allow and not allow. They call themselves Republicans, but have know idea that they swore an oath to a Limited Republic Constitution! They don't believe in individual choice and responsibility. I wonder how long it will be before they mandate that we all walk in lock-step? But, we all have to accept that Big Brother Lansing knows best, don't we? Better yet -- let's start voting out all incumbents that cannot substain to the Oath of Office they took in order to take their seats in government. It seems like that is what will have to take place before they learn to uphold the rights of the individual and private, tax-paying business. What next, nursing mothers should be banned from establishments because it offends the prudes who think a nursing mother is offensive? Ban all men and women from establishments who wear perfume and cologne because someone might be allergic? Please don't wear you Ben-Gay in public because others don't want the odor permeating their space? Ban all bars and drinking establishments because of the danger of someone over-inbiding? Ban tall people from sitting in front of short people in movie theaters and other establishments were their view could be blocked -- that includes all places of worship? Mandate what people can and cannot eat or drink so that their choices do not add to the cost of healthcare? How about banning everyone from driving? Therefore we could abolish the cost of unforeseen accidents and insurance costs? This could go on into infinity of where the fascist mentality could take us.

I did not know that we had so many Republicans who think like Fascists! The nobility over the serfs. Dictating what private businesses can allow and not allow. They call themselves Republicans, but have NO idea that they swore an oath to a Limited Republic Constitution! They don't believe in individual choice and responsibility. I wonder how long it will be before they mandate that we all walk in lock-step? But, we all have to accept that Big Brother Lansing knows best, don't we? Better yet -- let's start voting out all incumbents that cannot substain to the Oath of Office they took in order to take their seats in government. It seems like that is what will have to take place before they learn to uphold the rights of the individual and private, tax-paying business. What next, nursing mothers should be banned from establishments because it offends the prudes who think a nursing mother is offensive? Ban all men and women from establishments who wear perfume and cologne because someone might be allergic? Please don't wear you Ben-Gay in public because others don't want the odor permeating their space? Ban all bars and drinking establishments because of the danger of someone over-imbibing? Ban tall people from sitting in front of short people in movie theaters and other establishments where their view could be blocked -- that includes all places of worship? Mandate what people can and cannot eat or drink so that their choices do not add to the cost of healthcare? How about banning everyone from driving? Therefore, we could abolish the cost of unforeseen accidents and insurance costs? This could go on into infinity of where the fascist mentality could take us.

Right on!!! This smoking crap is just a distraction from the fact that our Reps' should and need to be removed from their jobs. People this isn't about smoking. It's about Lansing doing our thinking. When did you folks turn off your brains and decide to let the fat pigs in Lansing run the show?

You know people, it is time to get serious. We need a change in Lansing-- RIGHT NOW. Let's not wait for 'Dumbo' to finish her term. It's time for a recall. I am a non-smoker and I can tell you I don't go to bars. Sorry bar owners, but I am spending seven days a week trying to make it in Michigan. Having said that, I'm not an idiot. Government needs to stay out of private business. PERIOD. Who's in? We need to start at the top and everyone needs to circulate the petition ballets. How much proof do we need to see that Granholm and her cronies are killing this state. She's just plain stupid and so are our reps. I'm mad as hell. Can I say that?

You are exactly right. Maybe we should ask all people that have had a similar experience with our government stealing our property rights to blog in and put a group together to go to Lansing and demand that they follow the Constitution. They only get away with it because they're better organized and centralized. We can not give up. The tyranny of this Government rule has become way out of control. We pay taxes and then the government uses that money to put us out of business. Why should we leave Michigan? It's them that have to leave.

These fat cats in Lansing are putting my safety in jeopardy. Just the other day I was driving behind what appeared to be Senator Basham and he looked like he was having trouble controlling his car. He was eating what looked like a greasey burger, swerving all over. I was afraid for my life. I would like to propose a bill that would enforce a weight limit to our State Reps, which would include a cholesteral screaning. If they go over 200 then we need to pull them off the road and out of office. They are a danger to themselves and others around them because the posh life they are leading has made them soft and lazy and lack the knowbility to carry out the duties that they were sworn to uphold-- which by the way doesn't mean a 'Big Mac'. Mind your own business! And stay out of ours.

Time for an education, buddy. We live in a constitutionally governed REPUBLIC--not a democracy!

Suck up!!

Wha.. wha..wha... Get a job where you actually produce something useful that someone needs at least once in a while. You've been a drain on tax payers money.

Looks like you had a *subtraction*--of some of the grey matter!

This issue has promoted quite the spirited dialogue, which is a delight. It appears that about 70% of the dialogue participants are against the legislation. Wake up Lansing. I abhor tobacco and alcohol, but I promote the God given freedom of the individual to choose the use of those substances at home or in public places or the freedom from them. I promote the freedom of a bar owner to serve and allow the use of the legal substances of his choosing. I promote the freedom of the individual to patronize such a business or not. Lansing, as public servants you should do the same. This legislation is by cowards. If you really do not like tobacco smoke in public places, and think you have public support, go for the big game and outlaw the tobacco. Otherwise stay out of the bars.

You are absolutely right. Do you think the politicians are nervous about their own necks?

but if we keep on electing REAL republicans, they will be.

And maybe you can't 'add' or 'subtract!'

I know who you are. You're that person that pulls up to me with your window down and FARTS!! I can't stand people who fart in public!!! Yes we're 'Big Brother" and we know all your dirty little secrets and OUR NANNY Government is going to put a stop to your FARTING. We are going to collect tax money in the form of a fine. It never ends honey. Haven't you heard? Cows have caused our global warming problem because of their bottoms at work. Who will pay for that? The Cows?

Second hand smoke my butt. I'll tell you what you socialist have done to this state. GASTRIC BY-PASS Surgery for people who feed their faces and then go to the Nanny Government for free surgery. Do you have any idea who pays for those surgeries? We do. That affects my bottom line. I have so many taxes coming out of my income it looks like I must have a lot of money. The truth is I can't make it on the money I have and the only one getting rich is the Government. My insurance runs out this month. However, I still have the privilage of paying for all you fat people. Every time that someone smokes pot and ends up with mental issues we pay for that too. Now all these fat, crazy people get behind the steering wheel and our insurance pays for that. The list goes on. I am all for FREE WILL and no government telling me how to run my life and my business. I do not smoke, do illegal drugs, or drink. However, please feel free to do all of the above and let me alone. Just leave my pay check alone, I need a roof over my head.

'...whose death certificate says 'second hand smoke...' No way. Even if your mother suffered from cancer at the time of her death, unless it was homocide, accident, suicide, or trauma, it says 'Cardiac Arrest.' 'Think before you make the stupid statements...' Appropos advice--for you.

Senator Cropsey moved that the statement he made during the discussion of the bill be printed as his reasons for voting “no.” The motion prevailed. Senator Cropsey’s statement is as follows: I’m not going to vote for this legislation, this substitute at this point. I want to give my explanation why. First of all, I think it’s very interesting that this is the United States of America, supposedly a free nation. By the way, I don’t smoke. My wife doesn’t smoke. None of my kids smoke. My parents don’t smoke. I don’t know of any of my brothers or sisters who smoke. We grew up non-smoking, and I hope we always stay non-smoking. We grew non-drinking, and I hope we always stay non-drinking—of alcoholic beverages. But this is America. What we are talking about is a legal substance that people take for enjoyment knowing full well that it has health consequences. And we have restaurants and bars in this state where they have put up “No Smoking” signs because the owners of that restaurant or that bar say they are not going to allow smoking in this restaurant or bar. Why is that? Because there are people like myself who say we don’t want to go to a restaurant where there’s smoking. So we don’t frequent restaurants where there is smoking. And there are more and more restaurants that are going non-smoking because people are realizing the hazards of smoking. But that is a decision that we have made. Once again, tobacco is a legal substance and smoking of tobacco is a legal way to take that substance. So I think from a philosophical standpoint, I have a problem with that. The other part of this is we did have some amendments up that talked about what about the Indian casinos. I have the largest Indian casino or Native American casino in the state of Michigan in my district, and what’s going to happen? Just recently, I had a restaurant that had been a local landmark in Mount Pleasant. It’s been a landmark there for 50 years and has closed down, for whatever reason. Competition is tough in the restaurant business. What we are going to be doing by telling folks that, you know, all the restaurants and bars in Isabella County are going to be going smoke-free. However, the one at the Native American casino is not going to be regulated at all by the state. So guess where all the smokers are going to go when they want a nice meal or when they want a drink? They are going to go to the Native America casino. Now what is that going to do? We are sending a currently tax-paying citizen of the state of Michigan and telling them, “You go to the casino where no taxes are being paid—no sales tax.” No property tax, no taxes are being paid-and we are going to be telling all the other restaurants in Mount Pleasant, “Sorry, you’re at a competitive disadvantage,” and more of them will go out of business. And what will happen then? Property values become depressed. Fewer sales taxes. And then you are going be coming back and asking me, as one of the members of Appropriations, we’re spending too much on the Department of Corrections because we don’t have enough money. This is just amazing to me that we would be doing this without giving these restaurants and bars some mechanism whereby they can cater to people who wish to smoke, especially in areas where there is going to be very severe competition for their food dollars and for their cigarette dollar. So I would hope that at this point, we would turn down this substitute. I do know the Majority Leader has a substitute that he is willing to offer that would allow a restaurant or bar to post that they are a smoking restaurant or bar. And why is that important? Because then, as a non-smoker, you know you don’t want to go into that place. But, as a smoker, you know that you’re welcome. And what do we do? We’ll keep those taxes going that will be coming into the state of Michigan. And you let the free market work in that situation. Say, if you want to go to a smoking restaurant or bar, fine. If you don’t want to, fine, you don’t need to. But it’s not big-nanny government telling you what you are going to do and what you aren’t going to do. And, furthermore, purely from a state point of view, you aren’t shipping or forcing or encouraging our taxpayers to go somewhere else where you can’t tax them. So for those reasons, I’m going to vote “no.” If this is sent back to General Orders and the Majority Leader’s substitute is adopted on General Orders, then I do plan on voting for this legislation. But at this point, I plan on voting against it.

Senator Garcia’s statement is as follows: I opposed this bill not because I smoke because I don’t, but I believe this is a business decision best made by the business owners. People have a choice as to whether or not to frequent an establishment that allows smoking. They can choose to spend their money there. They can choose to work there. I’ve heard it said that we have a duty to protect the public health, but if it is our constitutional duty to protect the public health, then where do we stop? Let’s ban fast food. Let’s ban smoking. Let’s ban the use of alcohol. We have proof that all of these items harm the health of people. So why don’t we ban them? We don’t. We all know the answer to that. Just follow the money. I respect those who have opposing views, but, again, I go back to the point that I think it’s a business decision; it’s a personal decision. People can choose whether or not to frequent those establishments.

Senator Basham’s statement is as follows: I know a lot has been said about this issue, so I won’t go down that road. I would just like to thank my colleagues on both sides of the aisle for protecting patrons and workers from secondhand smoke again.

Senator George’s statement is as follows: I want to add my remarks to those of the previous speaker. I just want to put in a little context as to how we got to this point. My own position has evolved on this issue, say, in the last few years. I think the reason we are here is because of the change in the body of evidence related to the hazards of secondhand smoke. It was in 1986 that the Surgeon General issued a first report on the potential hazards of involuntary spoke exposure—1986. But since that time, there has been, literally, hundreds of peer-reviewed medical studies and several additional major reports that make the solid, scientific case that secondhand smoke is dangerous and is a leading cause of death in our country and in Michigan. It was two years ago that Surgeon General Richard Carmona issued a very definitive study showing that secondhand smoke causes heart disease and lung cancer in adults and sudden infant death syndrome and respiratory problems in children. So I am pleased that we are at this point today. Thousands of Michigan residents have their health placed at risk by exposure to secondhand smoke, and we now have an opportunity to reduce this risk. Some will say that the government has no interest in this, but we do. We have made laws ensuring that food is properly cooked, that equipment is properly cleaned, and that employees must wash their hands. We take these laws as being second nature today, and it is the same way regarding secondhand smoke. It is something that we will take as second nature in the future. Secondhand smoke is a real hazard, and eliminating exposure in workplaces, restaurants, and bars is consentient with our constitutional duty to protect the health of the citizens of Michigan.

Senator Schauer’s statement is as follows: I rise to thank Senator Basham for his leadership on this issue. This is a House bill introduced by Representative Clack, but we know that the Senator from the 8th District is the one who has led on this issue for many, many, many years. I would also like to thank the Senate Majority Leader, Mike Bishop, for allowing this vote to happen today. This is an issue that has certainly had some division in this state, and we know that there are some groups that don’t support a smoking ban in workplaces. I want to thank the advocacy community, that has really helped educate us here in this chamber, which I think really reflects the interest, by and large, of the people in this state. This may be the single, most important thing we can do to improve health status in this state, so I am proud of this chamber today and the debate that we have had on a very important health issue, and I rise in support.