Michigan Votes Forum

Our Ram's Horn went non-smoking. There is still a line to get in at breakfast and lunch.

If I own a business it SHOULD BE UP TO ME whether or not I allow smoking in my establishment. I need to be the one to look at all of the statistics and decide FOR MYSELF if smoking is a risk for my employees' and customers' health. BOTTOM LINE. Many businesses cater to people who smoke. That's THEIR CHOICE!!! Most of the freaks on here griping about smoking would have a cow if it was suddenly decided to make abortion illegal. IT'S ABOUT CHOICE AND PERSONAL FREEDOM!

I quit going out due to a lung ailment from breathing 2nd hand smoke in the work place for 15 years. I didn't really think it was bothering me until I suddenly developed Plurasy with an effusion. I had to change careers and was told not to work in any enviroment that had smoke or toxic fumes. I quit going out except to things outside and even then I can get smoked out by an inconsiderate smoker. Smoking kills, and 2nd hand smoke kills. Why would anyone knowing walk into a place that is filled with poison air? It's time folks to wake up. Smokers are getting sicker and making others sick. Our insurance rates are sky rocketing and how much is that ciggarette related. 2008. Time to get this cleaned up. Please quit smoking-your loved ones will have broken hearts when you get sick from it.

In this country you don't get to do anything that brings harm to anyone else. Not without ramifications. What do you think that should be?

Totally rediculous!

You posted: >Ronald Reagan that said that princess.< It appears you are referring to the paraphrased wisdom of Josh Billings, 19th century American humorist, quoted in this thread a few hours ago. Billings, whose real name was Henry Wheeler Shaw observed, (paraphrased again: It ain't what you don't know that makes you a fool, Princess, it's what you think you know that just ain't so. Ronald Reagan was smart enough to use wit. But he hardly originated every witticism he used. You really should learn to do your homework, oh Princess of Fools. >Get back to the buffet table, I can hear that third helping of mashed potatoes calling your name.< There you go again (one of Reagan's better political lines), oh Princess of Fools, making more of your ignorant surmises out here in public. And not even in a cleverly expressed way, either. This legislation is good for Michigan and Michiganders. The House and Senate need to act like adults and resolve their differences and get this bill into law.

I DO AGREE, in having a smoke free Michigan (with minor exemptions). However, I think it is UNFAIR to tell cigar shops/bars and smoking lounges that they can not have smoking. OBVIOUSLY IF SOMEONE DOESN'T SMOKE THEY WON'T GO IN THERE!!! It is also OBVIOUS that employees know it’s a smoking business and that they will always be around it – their choice. That will shut down a lot of Michigan businesses. These businesses are dedicated to smokers, and those who do not smoke know that and don't go in there anyway. There are many restaurants that have gone 100% smoke free, which draws the non smokers in. So why can’t a smoker have the same human right to be drawn into a business that is 100% based upon smoking? Pubs and brewery’s are 100% based upon drinking and cater to drinkers…so why can we not have businesses that 100% cater to smokers? There should be cigar bar/smoker shop exemptions, it is only fair. Many other states have this ban but they do have exemptions. They have places you can go and drink, they should at least allow smoking dedicated businesses in which you can go and smoke. It will kill those businesses but won’t hurt other businesses like restaurants, casinos, nightclubs. That is because their main businesses is not smoking, it is food, gambling, drinking/dancing. And if a restaurant/bar/casino wants to allow smoking it should be able to but have a designated area or separate room for that. That room should be sectioned off by walls and have the proper veneration system. The only way someone would smell the smoke is maybe off someone’s clothes, and that’s not harmful, just like someone wearing a cologne/perfume you don’t like isn’t. =) The sun is bad for you and has been also known to cause cancer. Does that mean the state should ban people from going outside? Make outdoor businesses put up UV ray protected glass? Or better yet just surround Michigan in a dome blocking all sunlight? That is what the Michigan Senate is doing with this smoking ban. They are trying to put all of Michigan in a self extinguishing ashtray. Approve with EXEMPTIONS please!

I am a smoker, but for all these other smokers to argue that it’s our choice and want everyone to just shut up and take it - that is just wrong. It’s something that is harmful and everyone knows it - there are even labels on cigarette boxes. What makes u think it isn’t harmful to those who inhale it via second hand? I have enough respect and caring for my family/friends that I never smoke around them. Just because we chose to pick up an unhealthy habit doesn’t mean everyone else has too. If you are drinking beer or liquor around your kids would you have them drink some? Well more or less that’s what you’re doing with second hand smoke. Smokers are arguing that they should be able to smoke wherever they want. So does that mean drunks can argue that they should be able to drink wherever they want? People go to their cars to drink, smokers can do the same. --- Pass this bill but with “cigar bar/smoker shop” exemptions. --- I agree with the post below me – good arguments This will be fair to both parties. If a private business wants to allow smoking, maybe they can go to the state for approvals and put up proper signage that designates the business as a smoking business, so people don’t go in that are non smokers – since it seems everything has to be so black and white these days.

I no longer smoke, however, I understand that some people do, which is their choice as not smoking is mine. There are already completely non-smoking restaurants, that if you do not smoke you can choose to patronize rather than a business that allows smoking. Once again, this is your choice, but likewise we should leave a degree of choice to the business owner to choose what kind of establishment they wish to own. It is the choice of the person who comes to work at the establishment, no different than it is the choice of the customer. If smoking is to no longer be acceptable, then why are ciagrettes continuing to be sold. It is not the governments place to dictate the policy of the businesses in their area to this degree. This bill is just one more government nail in the coffin. Keep tying the hands of the business-person, but then asking why businesses fail so rampantly and there is a reluctance of entrepreneurship! People should stop trying to force their opionions and/or agendas on others and leave some things for a person to decide on their own.

get real, how many people have to suffer because the guy next to has his rights, what about my rights.

should we also all carry guns in our purses and in our pockets. what about all of these poor innocent children who have no choice while you smoke in your car and the kids are buckled in the back seat, or do you also thinks we should not use seat belts. wake up. you smokers have no idea how much your medical conditions are affected by smoking, and what it cost our state of michigan. get a life a very healthy life, and we would all benefit.

just thing of all the new business that will open up to you when we are all smoke free. your thinking needs to change to open up new oppertunities for your self. you and all of up are paying everyday for these so called smokers.

sould like if nothing else we need to protect the children of michigan. your excuse is lame.

where is that rams horn? good for you. if it is close i will follow. also california pizza kitchen is not smoking and they are packed. non smoking is not going to affect any businesses. but our house and senate are only worried about their jobs.

I have showed you three business with names and cities that have lost between 30 and 50% of their business. Why are you so afraid of freedom??? Just don't go somewhere you don't like. Heck, I do it all the time. I haven't been to Ann arbor since the san francisco brigade took it over 15 or 20 years ago. If I was like you I would just try to force my ideas on them.

"should we also all carry guns in our purses and in our pockets" Yes! Yes! A Thousand Times Yes! And you shouldn't need any stupid state permit. Next Question "these poor innocent children who have no choice while you smoke in your car" I always crack the window and you can watch the smoke go straight out. Besides, most people my age were raised in smoky houses and cars and are fine. Maybe if you libs didn't kill off religion so that you could kill off babies you would quit worshipping your body. "do you also thinks we should not use seat belts" I "thinks" that you should wear a seat belt. I don't "thinks" that the state should force you to. "wake up" Okay, I'm up. Now you say something that is based on facts... "you smokers have no idea how much your medical conditions are affected by smoking" I.Q. 147...I think I am very capable of running my own life and weighing the costs vs. benefits. "get a life a very healthy life," If that would require being a nosy, busybody control freak, miserable, nanny staer like you I will have to take a pass, thank you.

The smokers out there really need to understand the effect their "exercising their rights" has on others. It astounds me that a person cannot go an hour or two without a smoke! It is such a selfish way to live. I too am caring for a parent that smoked for too many years; between the throat cancer and then lung cancer a decade after she stopped smoking the emotional cost and financial cost is affecting the loved ones. I would hope that none of the smokers is not able to eat solid foods because of the right they exercised. But, when this affects everyone around them they should be less selfish.

That's the only reason I can figure that my representative and many others voted against this legislation. We know the casinos have money, and this vote proves that they must have power, too! I'm ashamed. Clearly, a majority of the population would have liked to see this bill pass. There's overwhelming evidence that cigarette smoke is a health hazard and also overwhelming evidence that legislation like HR4163 would not hurt businesses. As I said before, I believe business would improve because many (like me) avoid bars & restaurants because of the heavy, thick, smelly, dirty, polluted, cancer-causing smoke. I'm voting against the incumbent, just for this. What else can I do???

"As I said before, I believe business would improve" Then get off your keester and open a no smoking establishment. Until then, get over yourself. It ain't all about you. Also, please tell me where you found one of these "bars & restaurants because of the heavy, thick, smelly, dirty, polluted, cancer-causing smoke." All the places I've been into in the last 10 years are ventilated very well. I think you are living in the distant past. Please respond with the name of one or more of these establishments so that i can check them out. Thank You.

Red Robin is another excellent smoke free place. Why do you need the government to make this choice for you? DO NOT EAT at places that permit smoking. They will go out of business.

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No Law, No more government telling us what is good for us. Let the market decide smoking’s fate! We currently have a law that allows women to choose if they want to abort their children (1.2 million a year in the USA). We do not need any law that takes away our right to choose. Restaurant/Bar/Night Club owners, workers and customers can choose (on their own) if they want to have a smoking establishment, work at a smoking establishment or visit a smoking establishment. Government needs to Butt Out!!! Triathlete, Runner, Tax payer, Voter

Researchers looked at 160 people referred to Temple's lung clinic with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, or COPD, an umbrella term for lung damage caused by two respiratory illnesses, chronic bronchitis and emphysema. The group was split evenly among Blacks and Whites and men and women, and all had what was classified as "moderate to severe" COPD. Black smokers with COPD started smoking later in life and smoked less, yet developed the disease at a younger age.

It is said that there are 400,000 premature deaths caused by smoking in the United States per year, but did you know that if a smoker dies at 92, it is still considered premature because he smoked? In an analysis of ages of those 400,000 deaths computed by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) SAMMEC (Smoking Attributable Mortality, Morbidity and Economic Costs) program shows some interesting numbers. Smoking "victims" lived longer than non-smokers, by about 2 years - 71.9 vs. 70. Over 70,000, 17% died "prematurely" at ages greater than 85. Only 1900, or 0.5% of smoking "victims" died at ages less than 35, while 143,000, or 8% of non-smokers died at ages less than 35, mostly due to auto accidents and drug abuse

logic nobody would ever get sick or die if you could just get your way and ban those evil cigarettes. You are a control freak and a narrcissist. You zealots prove this all the time when after banning indoor smoking in some socialist state you then go after outdoor smoking. I would really like to see the justification for banning smoking on the street. Maybe you are ignorant enough to believe that smoke is worse for you that carbon monoxide. I sure hope you don't use a gas lawn mower, you do know what that exhaust is doing to you, don't you? If you don't want to smoke, don't. If you don't want to be in a PRIVATE establishment that allows smoking, then don't go there. Why you nanny control freak usefull idiots think that you are the keeper of the world is beyond me. My guess is that most of you are good little obots marching in lockstep with your new messiah. You are probably gullible enough to believe all the global warming pablum they keep feeding you to make sure that you are always scared of some ficticious bogey man and therefore very easy to lead. Seek help, grow a few brain cells, maybe even get a little religion so that you can stop worshipping all these false idols like your body and the earth. You will find that you are happier and more fun to be around. Might even find a friend or two. Have a Great Day

so called right to stay out of anyplace that you don't like. Thats it, nothing else. Now go away... Shoooo. I'm losing patience listening to your nonsense.

Get a Grip. This smoking and gun control business isn't about making you safer. If they wanted to make the "children" safer they would issue them all guns, as it stands now only the bad guys are armed. This anti smoking zealotry is about little, small minded, unhappy, insufficient, control freaks trying to force everyone to obey. They just know that they are smarter than all of us freedom loving folks. British Medical Journal concludes secondhand smoke "health hazard" claims are greatly exaggerated The BMJ published report can be found here: http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/326/7398/1057 And concludes: The results do not support a causal relation between environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality, although they do not rule out a small effect. The association between exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and coronary heart disease and lung cancer may be considerably weaker than generally believed. What makes this study more significant than any other is that it took place over a 39 year period, and studied the results of non-smokers who lived with smokers..... meaning these non-smokers were exposed to secondhand smoke up to 24 hours per day; 365 days per year for 39 years. And there was still no relation between environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality. "Honest examination of the actual evidence shows the potential risks involved in smoking to be grossly exagerrated, and the depiction of 'secondhand smoke' as a deadly health hazard to be nothing less than a fraud. The antismoking lobby's dishonesty and its use of fearmongering and statistical junk science are simply staggering. They are getting away with it partly because they are currently rich and powerful, and partly because they are mostly being given a free ride by politicians and the media. "It has become politically incorrect to question or challenge anyone who speaks in the name of health. As a result, public health institutions become more tyrannous every day, and if health is the new religion, the antismokers are its Spanish Inquisition. But every witch hunt collapses as soon as a few people have the nerve to start fighting back, and sooner or later the current climate of hysteria will give way to one of reason. The smoking ban is not an end, but the first step in that direction." Every age has its dominant caste. This is the age of the zealot. Twenty years ago they were dismissed as cranks and fanatics, but now they are licensed to interfere in the every day lives of ordinary people to an unprecedented degree. When Bernard Levin first identified the new phenomenon of the SIFs (Single Issue Fanatics) many of us thought it was a bit of a joke or at most an annoyance. Now the joke is on us. In that short time they have progressed from being an ignorable nuisance to what is effectively a branch of government. They initiate legislation and prescribe taxation. They form a large and amorphous collection of groups of overlapping membership, united and defined by the objects of their hatred (industry, tobacco, alcohol, adiposity, carbon, meat, salt, chemicals in general, radio waves, field sports etc.) Their success in such a short time has been one of the most remarkable phenomena in the whole of human history. Children of the fifties did more passive smoking in one visit to the cinema than modern children do in their whole lives. Childhood asthma was then virtually unknown. It has increased steadily in subsequent decades, while environmental tobacco smoke has declined. It is now a major health problem. These facts are incontrovertible. Yet to state them is to arouse wrath. The sad side-effect of the dogma is that it diverts impetus from the search for the real cause: not a unique result of zealotry.

Now!

I find it incredible that Michigan was able to pass a medical marijuana use law and that we cna't ban smoking in restaurants, a move that would clearly improve the working conditions of Michigan employees, as well as the health of restauran patrons. Why our legislatures still feel that passing this bill will hurt business is beyond my understanding. I just returned froma vacation and was very pleased that in the three states we stopped to eat, none of them allow smoking in restaurants, Ohio, Tn. and Florida.

Since everyone talks about restuarants going out of business, and smokers rights being violated, even though no studies have shown any negative effects on businesses where smoking bans are in effect. Why don't we just allow it to go on the ballot. Since the majority of Michiganders are in support of the ban, I doubt that the smokers would allow that. Apparently our legislatures feel that smokers will drive to another state for dinner if we ban smoking.....that isn't going to happen.....and no one is telling people not to smoke, just don't force me or anyone else to breath smoke.......

let the owners of the businesses decide? i'm sure that if the issue of smoking/non-smoking were as important to the businessman's customers as it is to you, it should be an easy decision. now, businesses are not like state governments. they are not motivated by the opinions of those who do not contribute custom to the business owner. in other words, he doesn't care about the opinions of those who do not frequent his establishment. if you were his customer, and your view on smoking represented the majority of his customer's view, he would already BE non smoking. why do you insist on geting government involved? because you cannot win using facts of life as opposed to slanted surveys. bar owners do not care what people think who do not frequent their bars. you obviously are frequenting the WRONG BARS. if you cannot find a no smoking bar in your neck of the woods, it OBVIOUSLY MEANS that no one, other than you gives a flying rat's ass about being in a NON-SMOKING BAR. that SHOULD send a person of average intelligence a MESSAGE which YOU are obviously missing. it's not the government's job to protect YOUR health, it's YOURS. COMPLAIN TO THE BAR OWNER, who's job it is to satisfy paying customers. he has the power to change things IF HE WISHES. good luck with that.

by the people, and for the people. your 'side' says it loves those words, then turns around and instantly disregards them. your DEFAULT POSITION is to appoint some beaurocrat to rule another portion of our lives. perhaps you NEED to be ruled, as you have no guiding principles to rule you, but the rest of us do. imust ask you, WHY do you wish us to cower and submit to tyranny and government rule? are we not the LAND OF THE FREE? does freedom scare you so much that you not only willingly cast off all freedom, but insist that all others do the same? you bleat that this issue should go to a vote of THE PEOPLE. well, it already has, and free people have spoken, and you have lost. now, you have a chance to exercise your freedom, abd make a choice. 1. choose to open yourself a SMOKE FREE BAR. if it's SO GOOD FOR BUSINESS, why aren't business owners already doing it? 2. CHOOSE TO FREQUENT ANOTHER BAR THAT IS WILLINGLY SMOKE FREE. i'm sure that you wouldn't want to sit in a CONTAMINATED ESTABLISHMENT to eat and drink, now would you. 3. get yourself, and a bar full of like minded individuals to become the bar owners "bread & butter" customers, so that he will see stopping smoking as good for business. there WERE 1500 bars in the greater new orleans area right after KATRINA, but today, there are less than a thousand. the difference is a smoking ban. how is that GOOD FOR BUSINESS? please explain that.

versus the truth. the new york times has been trumpeting about how the smoking ban has been GOOD FOR BUSINESS. well, it has, IF you are a MCDONALDS. other businesses have experienced a LOSS OF BUSINESS, and even those who haven't, have not kept pace with the upsurge of business that has been shown in years past. even their own staff is skeptical of the data showing rises in tax revenue in "service sector" business as opposed to the decline in bar revenues. even the increase in "new liquor licenses" is a sign that older bars are closing at at fantastic rate, seeing as the TOTAL NUMBERS OF BARS REMAINS THE SAME. MOST MOM AND POP BARS ARE CLOSING, being replaced by hamburger stands and coffee shops. i'm sure that, sooner or later, you'll see the connection between BIG MACS and obesity, and the connection between CAFFIEN and heart disease, and close them down too. it's all for THE COMMON GOOD. perhaps you should explore the link between PUBLIC EDUCATION and the demise of liberty.

To set petty politics aside, and fdo what the majority of Michigan people say they support. Reconcile the House-Senate differences and put this bill into law. It will be good for Michigan, and good for Michiganders. The time has come for this state to cast to off the chains of regression that depress its people and economy, and launch progressive policies that will move us into and keep us in the mainstream of American life.

This is not about customers!!! This is about workers who do not have the choice to go somewhere else. It is about my wife who works at a Detroit Casino. She can not choose to go somewhere else. She is lucky to have a job in this economy and leaving her job is not an option. Her living a long healthy life with her family is.

This is not about business owners and not about customers, its about workers!!! Workers do not have the option to go to a non-smoking workplace. (especially in Michigan's economy) They can not just change jobs like we choose a place for dinner. This is no different than an asbestos ban. Workers are unnecessarily harmed by second hand smoke and should be protected. Period. All of them, including my wife at a Detroit Casino.

i really dont care wht u losers have to say

i really dont care wht u losers have to say.... u guys relly need to have a life