Michigan Votes Forum

Is it too much trouble for you to patronize places that you can get your own way in? Is it too much trouble for you to tolerate good decent folks that have worked their butts off for alot of years building and running a PRIVATE business? Maybe for you it is but the vast majority of people get along fine with folks that don't live like they think you should...Right off the top of my head the taliban is one group that is trying to force their ideas on other folks.

Smoking is a disgusting habit that endangers the health of both the smoker and everyone else whom he/she exposes to the foul reek of his burning weed. Were smoking merely disgusting and annoying to non-smokers, the "I wanna smoke" crowd might have an argument against this very sensible legislation. In that case the argument would be over whose personal convenience is to be served. But the problem is, smoking is not merely disgusting and annoying. It also is downright dangerous to the health and well-being of other people in the presence of the puffers. So we are not talking about one person's convenience balanced off against another. In this case we are discussing one person's convenience in indulging his/her addiction balanced against how that convenience threatens the health and well-being of other, innocent people. The supposed "right" to threaten the health and well-being of other, innocent parties simply for the sake of one's smoking convenience hardly stands as a "right" any reasonable person would defend. As stated before, I could not care less if any smokers here smoke themselves into the grave. What they do to themselves is their business. But I do care a great deal when smokers satisfying their uncontrolled addiction threatens my health and well-being, and that of others who choose not to smoke.

You have the right NOT TO ENTER MY ESTABLISHMENT that I bought with MY MONEY and I pay the exorbitant state taxes on every year and employ many good decent folks that don't have any problem with how I run MY BUSINESS. You DON'T have any so called right to tell me what LEGAL ACTIVITY that I can or cannot allow in said PRIVATE BUSINESS. Now get back to your all you can eat buffet, I think I heard your stomach growling. Have a Great Day and when you live a perfect life then we can talk. Now go any little person.

No body is forced to go to a particular restaurant. If you do not like a restaurant that allows smoking, then exercise your free right not to eat there. Ultimately, if there is not enough business to keep the restaurant open, it will change it policy as to smoking or go out of business.

If the legislature had a collective brain, they would license smoking just like liquor. The state could then make money over and above the taxes they already collect on tobacco products.

In Seattle, city councilors passed a measure requiring shoppers to pay 20 cents for every plastic or paper bag they use in grocery, drug, or convenience stores. In Los Angeles, a new "moratorium" forbids new fast-food restaurants within a 32-square-mile section of the city that is home to 500,000 low-income residents. "Ultimately," the moratorium's sponsor declared, "this ordinance is about providing choices." In San Francisco, Mayor Gavin Newsom has proposed a mandatory composting-and-recycling law that would oblige residents and businesses to separate their waste into multiple color-coded bins, whose contents would be inspected by city trash collectors. Individuals failing to "separate the coffee grounds from the newspapers," the San Francisco Chronicle reported, "would face fines of up to $1,000 and eventually could have their garbage service stopped." Of course it isn't only on the Left Coast that government paternalists are busily restricting freedoms in order to spare adults the trouble of making decisions for themselves. Regulators in Boston want to stamp out the sale of cigarettes in drugstores and on college campuses and to shut down cigar bars altogether. It makes no difference to the city's health commissioner that tobacco products are lawful and that many individuals enjoy them despite their well-known health risks. "Why," she asks indignantly, "would you want to sell something that has absolutely no redeeming value and ends up killing a lot of people?" Sagging pants, a ridiculous fashion trend in which pants are worn low enough to expose underwear, has been criminalized in communities from Louisiana to Michigan. In Riviera Beach, Fla., where a ballot initiative banning sagging pants passed overwhelmingly, violators can be hit with a $150 fine for a first offense, and up to 60 days in jail for repeated infractions. "It's not our intent to get rich off of fines or lock people up in jail," Mayor Thomas Masters insisted. "It's about a simple message: Pull up your pants." There was a time - younger readers may find this startling - when society was able to convey such messages effectively without resorting to prosecution. There was similarly a time when grown-ups could decide on their own whether to have a Big Mac for lunch, or to take home their purchases in a disposable bag, or to grab a pack of smokes at the corner drugstore. The fact that some people disapproved of their choices was not a sufficient reason to deploy the state's police power. Freedom, it was understood, necessarily included the freedom to choose unwisely. No longer. Politicians today may invoke "freedom of choice" when extolling abortion, but freedom evaporates when it comes to matters they consider really important. Jeff Jacoby

And send it to the governor for signature, now! This is great legislation for Michigan and Michiganders.

pass house bill 4163 without exceptions. Please..do it now

I hear ya.... (please raise right hand)YA VOLT!!!!!!!! Idiots.............and more than likely a fat ass pig.

we wouldn't be turning into a nanny state crap hole that is going toward socialism while the rest of the world is trying to go toward freedom.

I appreciate your comments on Baggy Pant, Plastic Bag, Fast Food legislation. The difference between these and the Workplace Smoking Ban is that the act of smoking harms other people thru the known dangerous effects os second hand smoke, and these other activities do not harm other people.

for you then why do the actuarial tables knock more off your life for not wearing a seat belt than smoking everyday???? You are a control freak zealot and you know it. I will be praying for you in hopes that you can find a friend or two and learn to enjoy the rest of your life and not spend it by sticking your nose in everybody elses private business. Have a Great Day

I am tired of going out with friends to bowling alleys, bars, ect. and then having my clothes, car and apartment all smell like smoke when I don't smoke!

ITS TIME TO PASS THIS LEGISLATION, NO SMOKING IN ALL PUBLIC PLACES TO INCLUDE CASINOS. Canada does not allow smoking in casinos so how would that hurt Detroit? Even smokers arn't dumb enough to drive over 100 miles at $4.00 a gallon just to smoke at Mt. Plesant. (well maybe) so how would this hurt Detroit?

My post below was in referance to the smoking ban.

Keep the "cigar bars" and tobacco specialty shop excemptions in the bill as the house had approved! You will be shutting down a lot of Michigan businesses. These businesses are 100% based upon smoking and non smokers don't go in there anyway!!!

your an idiot

Rep. Clemente, under Rule 31, made the following statement: “Mr. Speaker and members of the House: I did not vote on Roll Call No. 760 because of a possible conflict of interest.”

don't understand why David Law *39th district did not vote (along with 10 others). Was he too busy working on campaigning for Oakland Co. Prosecutor job.

Rep. Sheen, having reserved the right to explain his nay vote, made the following statement: “Mr. Speaker and members of the House: Smoking Ban No Vote HB-4163 I do not smoke and I agree that smoking is a health hazard. However, this legislation is an abridgement of private property rights and will result in more people smoking at home, exposing more children and more non-smoking spouses to secondhand smoke. That is not the desired result, but it is never the less a by-product of this legislation. This legislation is unconstitutional in that it bans a legal product from consumption in a privately owned business, restaurant, or public place, which is a violation of business owners and citizen’s constitutional right to do as they choose with their private property and personal health choices. This legislation opens the door to all kinds of other regulations and restrictions on private property and individual health choices. Will we now regulate the amount of food a person can consume or fat content a restaurant can serve on its menu? If this legislation is really concerned about the problem of secondhand smoke on non-smokers, it will be extremely detrimental to children, relatives, and spouses living in the home, because the only place one can smoke will be in the car, in the home, or outside. This legislation is flawed, unconstitutional, and will reduce restaurant and bar patronage hurting business owners, because their former customers will have no where else to go but home. It will create as many problems as they purport to solve and I cannot support them.”

Rep. Huizenga, having reserved the right to explain his nay vote, made the following statement: “Mr. Speaker and members of the House: I regret that I must vote ‘no’ on the ‘smoking ban’ bill as presented in HB 4163. I laid out very clearly from the beginning that for me to be able to vote in favor of banning all smoking a level playing field must be created. By rejecting my proposed amendments that would have required the Governor to renegotiate the compacts with tribal casinos and ban smoking in their establishments as well, the bill created an uneven playing field and therefore I am not able to support the bill. Unfortunately, this will cost the state of Michigan dearly.”

of whiny little control freaks that think they should be able to make all the rules. A PRIVATE BUSINESS is just that. If you don't like it just don't go there. Man, what a concept. Freedom of choice.

today. What pray tell has your panties all bunched up?

As usual people see the law as it's all about mEEEEEE. But the actual laws intent is to protect workers who are employed in these establishments and exposed to carcinogens. It is the government’s responsibility by law to protect the health of the public and its work force. People have the right to smoke but do not have the right to directly affect the health of individuals who are trying to earn a living and support their families. Any place of business that would require employees to work where there are known carcinogens would be shut down in an instant by regulatory agencies. Second hand smoke should be no different. Law makers in the state need to do what they are statutorily obligated to do and protect the works in our state. They also need to get out of the, it’s all about me and do what the majority the residence who they represent want, which is safe work environments for business who are struggling economically in our state. We need a state work environment where business want to come. Michigan needs to start to go forward not back ward as it has for the past 3 decades. Please take a step in the right direction and pass HB4163

About "private business" for a long walk off a short pier? It is just ideological prattling with no basis in reality. This bill should become law, ASAP, as demonstrated by the fact that (a) a majority of the public think it is the right idea, and (b) both houses of the legislature have passed it, albeit in slightly different forms. As for the exemptions hurdle? I'd say "no exceptions," as an ideal. As a compromise, I'd accept the "cigar bar" exemption, but would not accept the exemption for casinos.

at one time thought burning witches was a good thing. You should be especially glad that one didn't fly.

All about you princess. From your post I can surmise that you don't go to cigar bars but do go to the casinos. Maybe more time outdoors would improve your control freak attitude. Keep your grubby paws off of MY PRIVATE BUSINESS. You may want to give it a go and open one of your own, then you can make the rules and work 15 hour days.

since they will be out of work and won't have to put up with those nasty paychecks. I would be real interested to see what the service industry workers have to say about this draconian law that will put them on the street. Most of you zealots are just sitting in the buffet line watching folks have fun at the bar and you are jealous. I've seen it. I've seen your dirty looks from the non smoking sections. Get a Life.

You surmise a lot of stuff that just ain't so. Josh Billings said it best (to paraphrase): It ain't what you don't know that makes you a fool, Princess, it's what you think you know that just ain't so. Give it up Princess. You're in over your foolish little head.

As you characterize it, then why do spend so much time ranting about it? Does the thought of Michigan doing something moderately progressive in protecting employee and public health get you down? It must, because that's what you are ranting against. Pass this bill, now!

I sell remanufactured toner cartridges to several smoke-friendly establishments and I know that at least one of them will close it's doors if HB 4163 is signed into law. I can tell you with certainty that this bill will harm my book of business. How many others are in a similar position? Why is Michigan so eager to add so many laws and regulations anyway? Please just get off of our backs. We are hurting enough. Michael Kelsch michael@cartridgeworldoftroy.com

You know it. This is all about taking another bite out of private property rights. You can call it whatever you want but the truth will shine through. Lenin would be proud of all the little usefull idiots out there today doing his bidding, and most of em aren't smart enough to know they're being used.

Ronald Reagan that said that princess. Get back to the buffet table, I can hear that third helping of mashed potatoes calling your name.

Stop it now! All of you in government have to remember that we citizens still have the right to choose what and where we want to go, work and spend our money. That is also true when it comes to smoking. If I choose to work at or spend my money at an establishment that allows smoking I will. If I don't want to go to a smoking establishment, I don't. Its that simple. Stop trying to run our lives. You've already tried to ruin this state with taxes and regulations, leave this alone. People are sick of the government trying to run our lives and pretty soon there won't be anyone left to govern. Pissed off voter.

I am in total agreement with that quote.

Ten reasons to pass the ban: 1. The majority of citizens want the ban and we live in a (modified) democracy. 2. A cigar bar exemption is fine. 3. A small number of businesses--in close proximity to Native American casinos--will be harmed. I can still sleep soundly. 4. No one ever points to businesses hurt in states that already have bans--ever wonder why? 5. Any lost revenue is balanced by increased patronage by nonsmokers--there are more nonsmokers than smokers. 6. Second-hand smoke is harmful. Smoke that fails to stay in the smoker's lungs does not go "poof". I had constant ear infections as a child. My parents both smoked in the home. That's all the proof that I need. 7. When I drive behind you on the freeway, I can tell if you're smoking in your car. All I need is my nose. No joke. I'm not angling for a car ban, but people have no idea how bad that stuff stinks. 8. "Everyone else is doing it" is a good argument. Michigan loses convention business to states with bans. 9. Limits on legal behavior are legislated all the time. That's a weak argument against a ban. Prohibition doesn't work; limits do. 10. Breathing matters more to me than almost anything on God's green earth. Don't smoke in my general vicinity. And, no, I won't stay in my house all of the time. I'm the majority.

You have no right to impose your personal issues on others. One of the wonderful things about our country is you right NOT TO GO INTO a bar, restaurant, casino, etc. where others are pursuing their right to smoke and legally available product. I do not smoke and enjoy my freedom to go where I am comfortable without imposing my views on others. Dennis Van Stee

You have no right to impose your personal issues on others. One of the wonderful things about our country is your right NOT TO GO INTO a bar, restaurant, casino, etc. where others are pursuing their right to smoke a legally available product. I do not smoke and enjoy my freedom to go where I am comfortable without imposing my views on others. Dennis Van Stee

After traveling extensively through the U.S. an Europe, it is obvious the smoking ban has no affect upon people who want to have a drink. The MINORITY who do smoke, just go outside leaving the bar or restaurant free of smoke. It is such a relief that I don't have to leave a bar in those situations and need to go home and take a shower. The positive health affects are already well known. No need to repeat that. I would actually go to the bar more if smoking were banned. No more sore throats the next day from breathing smoke, just because I wanted to see a good band. It's younger people who suffer. They are the ones typically working in these establishments where their job choices are limited because many of them are still working their way through school. E T Barrett

Mom always told me smoking wouldn't hurt her and it was not my place to tell her to quit. She wouldn't visit me when I moved out because she couldn't smoke in my place. And it doesn't smell (she said). 30 years later: I'm taking her out to lunch. Her house smells but her sense of smell is gone. I detach her oxygen from the compressor that runs 24/7 in her house. I grab a portable tank and bag and help her out to the car. She's out of breath, lips blue. Her car has a wheelchair, a scooter, a walker, and spare oxygen tanks. When she spends the night, the compressor has to come too. Now the burden of her decision is mine. The expense belongs to us all. PLEASE PASS THE BILL. I don't want my kids breathing 2nd hand smoke.