Michigan Votes Forum

OH, and I love the beach that bans cigarettes. NOW we are getting somewhere. Michigan rarely wins awards for its beaches, and it SHOULD considering the percentage of coastline. BRAVO. Butts make up the largest percentage of solid waste found on world beaches. YUCK. Increase tourism and save on beach maintenance by banning cigarettes EVERYWHERE on MI beaches. Tourism is something we should be investing in HEAVILY right now. Other states already have cigarette bans on beaches. I hope this trend continues SOON. I love and appreciate and respect that the state invested in money for curb appeal between the Indiana border and the close to the border lake cities to attract Chicago citizens to MI. Fabulous. GOOD leadership. New Buffalo, cute town, is just opening their casino. I think that's a good place for one. If you live in New Buffalo, you've already got good financial literacy skills to be able to afford to live there. Those citizens won't RUIN themselves and their family's finances. It will draw many Chicago folks. We need to give scholarships in tourism skills, send our kids to the best hotel, rest. management programs in the nation, and then give them job offers they can't refuse to come back. We need SOUTHERN HOSPITALITY in Michigan in a BIG way.

That's reason enough for me. I have to wash my hair after being around that crap. And that takes FOREVER.

Michiganders could stand to be spending their money on other things when it comes down to it. I think this bill would be really helping the state out.

Do them a favor and pass this. They should be paying their mortgage and paying down their credit or improving their credit score, anyway.

Your right....the health inspector can't say anything about cigarettes because they ARE legal....legal WHEN THEY'RE IN YOUR OWN POCKET, SMOKED ON YOUR OWN TIME, IN YOUR OWN PRIVATE HOME, CAR, ETC!! But the health inspector SHOULD be able to say something when those cigarettes are smoked in a business where the public is served and negatively impacted by them!!!

All the fire inspector can do is make sure the "fire code" is being followed... the fire code that makes the business what???? say it with me now.... SAFE! Yes, safe. The fire inspector, the health inspector, they're all there to make sure a business follows guidelines that make their facility SAFE for it's customers. Allowing a carcinogenic toxin to pollute the air, as far as I'm concerned, is not keeping the customers safe, so it shouldn't be allowed in the building.

Go for it.

Sock it to em

if they follow the HEALTH GUIDELINES!

lol,

SICK OF THE SMOKE. I go to a restaurant, have to wait in line. Why? Because someone with a nasty, pathetic habit can't make through a meal without their addiction interfering. I go the bowling alley, the casino, and come home smelling disgusting. Why, because some has, yet again, contaminated the air with their weakness and addiction. It is about damn time this bill gets passed. And we can say goodbye to the pollution being cast on innocent people's lungs, clothes, hair!!! IT IS A FILTHY, POISONING, WEAK HABIT THAT NEEDS TO BE REMOVED FROM ALL PLACES OF BUSINESS! DO IT ON YOUR OWN TIME, AWAY FROM INNOCENT BYSTANDERS.

Dangers of Secondhand Smoke: 21.9% of Michigan adults smoke. Secondhand smoke causes between 35,000 and 62,000 deaths from heart disease every year. 1 12,000 otherwise healthy nonsmokers will die of some form of cancer, 3,000 specifically to lung cancer, because of their exposure to secondhand smoke.2 Secondhand smoke contains over 4,000 substances, more than 69 of which are known or suspected to cause cancer.3,4 The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has classified secondhand smoke as a Group A carcinogen, a substance which is known to cause human cancer. According to the American Cancer Society, secondhand smoke is the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States, killing 38,000 to 65,000 nonsmokers every year. Food service workers appear to be 50 percent more likely than the general population to develop lung cancer, largely because many of them are exposed to secondhand smoke on the job.5,6 Kids and Smoking: 17% (101,400) of high school students smoke. 30,100 to 19,000 young people(under 18) in MI become new daily smokers each year. 20.7 million packs of cigarettes are bought or smoked by young people in MI each year. Studies show secondhand smoke may be a major factor in the development of asthma in children under five. Secondhand smoke is a serious trigger of asthma and can cause or worsen respiratory conditions. Studies have shown that children with asthma who are exposed to secondhand smoke require more asthma medicines, have more emergency room visits and lower lung function. Deaths in Michigan From Smoking: 14,500 adults die each year from their own smoking. 298,000 young people under 18 and live in Michigan will ultimately die prematurely from smoking. 1,340 to 2,390 adults, children, and babies die each year from others' smoking (secondhand smoke and pregnancy smoking). Smoking-Caused Monetary Costs in Michigan: $3.4 billion—Annual health care costs in Michigan directly caused by smoking. $1.1 billion—Portion covered by the state Medicaid program. $637—Per household resident's state and federal tax burden from smoking-caused government expenditures. $3.80 billion—Smoking-caused productivity losses in Michigan. References: 1Steenland, K. (1992). Passive Smoking and the Risk of Heart Disease. Journal of the American Medical Association 267(1): 94-99. 2U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) (1992). Respiratory Health Effects of Passive Smoking: Lung Cancer and Other Disorders. Washington, D.C.: EPA. 3National Cancer Institute. Risks Associated with Smoking Cigarettes with Low Machine-Measured Yields of Tar and Nicotine. Smoking and Tobacco Control Monograph No. 13. Bethesda, MD: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, National Institutes of Health, National Cancer Institute, NIH Pub. No. 02-5074, October 2001. personal communication, dated October 28, 2003, from Dietrich Hoffmann, Ph.D., Associate Director, Institute for Cancer Prevention, co-author of Chapter 5 of NCI Monograph 13, clarifying that Table 5.4 of the Monograph (that lists the 69 carcinogens) is missing a carcinogen, namely MeAaC (2-amino-3-methyl-9-Hpyrido[ 2,3-b]indole, and it should be inserted under “under “Miscellaneous Organic Compounds”. 4National Cancer Institute. Risks Associated with Smoking Cigarettes with Low Machine-Measured Yields of Tar and Nicotine. Smoking and Tobacco Control Monograph No. 13. Bethesda, MD: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, National Institutes of Health, National Cancer Institute, NIH Pub. No. 02-5074, October 2001. 5Shopland, D.R.; Anderson, C.M.; Burns, D.M.; Gerlach, K.K., "Disparities in smoke-free workplace policies among food service workers," Journal of Occupational and Environmental Medicine, 46(4): 347-356, April 2004.

Key Messages from the "Make MI Air Smokefree" site: Smokefree air is good for Michigan’s health. The 2006 U.S. Surgeon General’s report stated the only way to protect consumers and employees from deadly exposure to secondhand smoke is through comprehensive smokefree workplace policies. Our 2006 Air Quality Tour showed that nonsmoking sections do not adequately protect Michigan consumers and employees from deadly secondhand smoke. 12,000 otherwise healthy nonsmokers will die each year from some form of cancer – 3,000 specifically because of secondhand smoke exposure. Secondhand smoke is the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States, killing about 50,000 nonsmokers every year, according to the California Environmental Protection Agency. Smokefree air is good for business. During a poll of 400 registered Michigan voters, 79% said they would go to restaurants "more often" or "just as often" if they become smokefree; and 70% of respondents indicated the same about bars, clubs and bowling alleys. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency estimates the cost savings of eliminating secondhand smoke in the workplace to be between $35 billion and $66 billion a year. Studies across the country prove that smokefree laws benefit business. After New York City went smokefree in March 2003, the Department of Finance reported 10,600 new jobs in the city’s bars and restaurants between March and December 2003; and tax receipts increased by 8.7% , or approximately $1.4 million. Similarly in Florida, receipts for taverns and bars that served food remained unaffected by the state's smokefree law. There are 21 well-designed studies that show no negative economic impact from smokefree policies in restaurants and bars Michigan’s government already regulates several areas of workplace and restaurant policies in the name of public health. Employees should not be forced to sacrifice their health because they need to earn a paycheck. Food service workers are 50% more likely to develop lung cancer, due largely to the fact that they are exposed to secondhand smoke while on the job. A Michigan smokefree workplaces law is supported by more than 70 organizations, including the Michigan Health and Hospital Association, Michigan State Medical Society, American Cancer Society, American Heart Association, and American Lung Association AND is strongly supported by Michigan voters. In a statewide poll conducted in 2005, 63% of Michigan voters support a smokefree workplaces law, while only 23% oppose. Fourteen percent are neutral. A MIRS poll conducted in February 2007 showed 61% of Michigan voters support smokefree buildings, including restaurants and bars.

fingernail polish remover is a 'class a carcinogen'? as in KNOWN TO CAUSE CANCER IN HUMANS. nail salons routinely have this stuff just sitting out and evaporating. it's JUST GREAT FOR THE LUNGS. no one says a word about it, and it's several orders of magnitude more harmful. you just want everyone to quit smoking. i don't see you giving a flying rat's ass about the OTHER causes of cancer that we are exposed to. i'm not a smoker, but i don't appreciate you stepping on other people's rights just to appease your wishes.

"Similarly in Florida, receipts for taverns and bars that served food remained unaffected by the state's smokefree law" I know 3 in the Keys that are closed due to the draconian smoking laws. "In a statewide poll conducted in 2005, 63% of Michigan voters support a smokefree workplaces law, while only 23% oppose. Fourteen percent are neutral." I can take a poll today that will prove that 70% of the people in Michganistan think that we should take all your money and give it to them. "There are 21 well-designed studies that show no negative economic impact from smokefree policies in restaurants and bars" All done by nanny staters like you. All Bunk "Studies across the country prove that smokefree laws benefit business." B.S. Show me one legitimate study. have you ever tried to run a business? Have you ever been a productive member of society. My guess is that you are living at the public teat, either in government, the so called school system or maybe the dpw. "Secondhand smoke is the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States, killing about 50,000 nonsmokers every year, according to the California Environmental Protection Agency.' Then why will Khalifornia issue a variance (for a price) if you are going broke because of this law? Maybe they just don't care. You are just a lonely little person that wants to impose your agenda on the productive class. Maybe you are jealous that some of these people make lots of money running a business that allows freedom. I Pity You.

and put those veins back in your neck. You have just made my point for me. This has nothing to do with anything except you wanting people to do things your way. You are a anti smoking zealot and facts mean nothing to you. Try to live in the real world, you may like it and find a friend or two.

an entire jack booted gestapo to enforce all the laws that little people like you want. Man, sounds like a great place to live....

us how we can spend our money? Man, you socialists are showing your true colors here. Better be careful, folks are going to be able to see your true agenda. You sound like you need a smoke.

then you could save time by skipping personal hygene? You should seek help. Maybe if you bathed a little more often you would have friends and not be so petty. Meanwhile just head back to the all you can eat buffet and start grazing.

"We need SOUTHERN HOSPITALITY in Michigan in a BIG way." But we don't need ignorant little laws to control all the good subjects. This is too easy, you control freaks keep making my point for me. This has nothing to do with health and everything to do with CONTROL. Someone smoking on the beach will never hurt you but you want to ban that too? I own property on beaches here and in Fl. and have never seen a cig wash up. You are small minded socialist control freaks that need to get a life.

no he can't. he can't even tell a bar owner to get a 'smoke-eater'. all he can do is check the temperature of the coolers and the food in the kitchen. he can't even make you throw out an obviously sick customer. he can't even SUGGEST IT. this is because a health inspecor only has certain duties, and is not allowed BY LAW to do any other duties. he cannot tell you to quit serving alcohol, because he is not allowed to INSPECT alcohol. he cannot tell you to stop smoking in your establishment, because he is not allowed BY LAW to inspect for smoking in your establishment. he cannot be in the bar area at all, and if he is, he is in trouble, because he is not allowed into the bar unless they have a permanent area to serve food. so, your idea of a 'health gestapo' just went down the toilet. remember, the 'department of health' is not there for YOUR HEALTH, it's there for the state's revenue. as long as you pay for your inspection, and pay any fees for non-compliance, you can do what you want. good luck, but try again.

in the state's health guidelines. keep the meat cold IS.

look up the case. "DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS VA SAN DIEGO HEALTHCARE SYSTEM SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA and LOCAL R12-228, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES, SEIU" in this case, the union MUST support it's member's right to smoke. it must fight when a facility arbitrarily closes a 'smoking area'. it MUST do this or face the fact that the union members will not support the union with their dues if the union does not support them. now, the government was arbitrary and capricious when it closed the area, and the union had to stand up to them. the state of michigan is being arbitrary and capricious in closing down THESE smoking areas. it has no scientific evidence, just anecdotal statements by anti-smokers. now, when the hearings come, please try and produce some truely scientific evidence about this specific case, not just some 'well done study' about the 'evils' of smoking in general.

when a goodly portion of the beaches in east michigan are CLOSED due to a dark brown muck that grows on the beaches. it stinks. it comes from fertilizers and waste water run off going into the lakes and bays. do we ban farming? do we ban fertilizers? do we ban toilets? that's what we'd have to do to clean this mess up, and then, they are not even sure if THAT would do it. a mucked up beach will never win awards. but michiganders will never understand that, they are too busy trying to outlaw smoking.

to wash your hair for anything else. you DO wash your hair every day, don't you???

open bottles of fingernail polish aren't present in almost every single restaurant in Michigan! Smoking is, and continuing to deny that it's not a known health risk is just just turning a blind eye to avoid what you know is true. This isn't about taking away rights and pushing an agenda non-smokers just "want". This is about asking businesses to ensure the safety of their customers while they are in their establishment. Many smokers against this bill are ignorantly ignoring a mountain of evidence that smoke is a health hazard. Why? So that they don't have to be "inconvenienced" when they go out in public. They don't care if their bad habit hurts someone else, they don't care if the workers are put in danger, just as long as they get their nicotine fix. Talk about "pushing an agenda just to get what you want". Smokers are pushing an ignorant, factless fight, throwing around words like rights and liberties, just to get what THEY want... they don't care about "private business". They care about their ADDICTION plain and simple. Even if that means they have to promote puffing carcinogens throughout the air of all of Michigan's restaurants, regardless of who it harms.

"lonely little person", "jealous of people who make money".... these are useless statements that have nothing to do with this bill. But you are right, this is about money. Business owners are just looking at the bottom line. Again, this has nothing to do with rights and free will. As long as that owner gets paid, they don't care if their customers are subjected to a known health risk. "making lots of money running a business that allows freedom"????? Right.... making lots of money at the expense of the health of their workers and customers. They're the one's pushing an agenda just to get what they want.... making a buck.

ask a state that just took in several BILLION dollars from the tobacco industry to suddenly cut that income? every cigarette smoked is MORE MONEY FOR THE STATE. do you REALLY think that they are going to cut off that funding??? oh, they'll make TOKEN JESTURES, but that's about it. they understand that people are FREE, THAT INCLUDES BEING FREE TO DO THINGS THAT AREN'T GOOD FOR US. driving isn't good for us, but we do it. drinking isn't good for us,(depending on who you talk to) but we do it. riding motorcycles isn't good for us, especially if someone runs you over in their big s.u.v. all these things aren't good for us for one reason or another. all can kill us. but it's not the state's job to tell us not to do them. it's up to each and every one of us to tell ourselves not to do it. and while we are at it. it's not YOUR job to tell ANYBODY what not to do.

restaraunt to insure the customer's safety, it's their job to FEED THEM. it's the CUSTOMER'S JOB to ensure their own safety. if they are too dumb to do it, then they are just too dumb to do it. you don't have to like it, but that's the way it is. you can try to educate them, but some just won't learn. you can't just take them by the hand and 'rescue' them, as some just don't want to be rescued. i think the message we have been trying to get through your thick skull is MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. if you don't like a smoky environment, don't go to the establishment. if you can't resist, just die quietly like everyone else. don't whine when YOUR decision kills you. it IS your decision to hang around all those smokers. practice what you preach. get away from those NASTY SMOKERS, quick, before you end up dead. and by the way, there CAN'T be any open bottles of nail polish remover in the restaraunt, as that has been banned since the turn of the last century.

"Business owners are just looking at the bottom line" Explain to me another reason to work the long hours and have all the headaches that go along with owning your own business. "Again, this has nothing to do with rights and free will" This has everything to do with "rights and free will", namely the owners "rights and free will". Your free will is to not patronize them. Your rights end at their Pivate Property front door, if you don't like the way they do business then stay out. Problem solved. Maybe you think they lose these rights because you consider them part of "the evil rich" Let me tell you something libby, without the evil rich, risk taking business men and women you would be sleeping under a bridge in a refrigerator box.

to do with another liberal trying to push his liberal agenda on others, all the while taking away rights, freedoms, and liberties. it's the liberal way.

that's why they HAVE to follow fire codes and health guidelines in order to STAY IN BUSINESS. That's why they have limits to how many people they can have in there at a time, that's why they HAVE to have fire exits, that's why they HAVE to keep their freezers and refrigerators at certain temperatures, that's why they can't have asbestos or black mold growing in the ceiling, that's why they HAVE to put warnings on their menus if raw egg is in a food item. These businesses are not their "privately owned" HOMES. They SERVE THE PUBLIC. When a patron chooses to enter the establishment, it is with the understanding that there are certain safety measures put in place to protect the customer while they are there. It's not the customer's job to make sure the restaurant is following the fire code. It's not the customer's job to go check the freezers. It's the BUSINESS OWNER'S job to see that those safety measures are in place for their patrons. If all of these SAFETY mesaures are NOT enforced by the owner they will not only be fined, they'll be SHUT DOWN! If you can't have black mold and asbestos in your facility then you shouldn't be able to have carcinogens in the air either.

"ask a state that just took in several BILLION dollars from the tobacco industry to suddenly cut that income?" The state isn't cutting that income... if a person can't smoke in a restaurant do you really think they're going to stop, or have one less cigarette that day? No, they're going to smoke just as many cigarettes, but smoke them somewhere else. "they understand that people are FREE, THAT INCLUDES BEING FREE TO DO THINGS THAT AREN'T GOOD FOR US". I don't have a problem with people doing things that aren't good for them, just as long as it doesn't affect the people around them. The only way a business is even allowed to exist, and make money off the public, is because it has agreed to follow certain safety and health guidelines to protect the people that are giving them their business, and the employees that help to run that business. "all these things aren't good for us for one reason or another. all can kill us. but it's not the state's job to tell us not to do them." The state ISN'T TELLING PEOPLE NOT TO SMOKE. People can smoke 50 packs of cigarettes a day, for all they care. They're telling them if they go into a place of business, they can't contaminate the air of that business because it's a health risk to the other patrons. When the smoking no longer affects JUST the person doing it, it becomes a whole other issue. Yes, the other patrons "made" the decision to enter, but they did so with the understanding that the restaurant was following the state health guidelines. Harboring a known carginogen in the air of your business should become a part of those state health guidelines.

but as of now, those KNOWN CARCINOGENS are NOT part of the state health guidlines. it's not the job of the state to protect YOUR health. if you know the air is 'polluted' with KNOWN CARCINOGENS, don't go to the restaraunt or bar. it really is YOUR responsibility, not the state's. the state has enough to do without you dropping another thing in their lap to nanny over. businesses are 'allowed to do business' in order to pay the state certain fees and taxes. not to protect the general public from KNOWN HEALTH HAZARDS. if the state did that, they would have to close every mcdonalds hamburger joint in the state. exercise some personal initiative. stop relying on the state to keep you safe. they really do a crappy job of it.

"it's not the job of the restaurant to insure the customer's safety, it's their job to FEED THEM." Ok, so maybe it isn't a restaurant's job to "insure" the "absolute" safety of a customer. I get that. But, as a business, don't you think they should be responsbile for creating a reasonably hazard- free environment while the patron is eating there? I mean, that IS why these fire and health codes are put in place, and inspected on a regualr basis, isn't it? It has to generally be considered a safe place to go. There can't be rats running around and fecal matter all over the floor, right!?! And I understand that it's not fair to demand that a business owner police the customers and have to deal with potentially throwing people out for non-compliance, if this thing goes through. I get that they are just trying to run a business. But as a responsible business, don't you think they should be creating an environment that isn't going hurt the customers that give them business? I know smokers are a big part of that business but I honestly don't think this will stop them from eating out. I still feel if a business is set up to serve the public, as a responsible business, they should be following guidelines to maintain a clean environment, and to me, I just don't see how keeping the circulating air free from toxins shouldn't be a part of that.

a vast majority of the customers are the ones circulating the carcinogens. to stop it is to stop THOSE CUSTOMERS. the RESPONSIBILITY OF THE BUSINESS IS TO SATISFY THE CUSTOMER. that is the only thing that keeps customers coming back. if they feel uncomfortable because of too many rules and regulations, they don't come back. 'the customer is always right' is a rule you seem all too eager to ignore. you can be as 'responsible' as you like. the customer is always responsible for himself. if you forget this, you will have lots of 'alone time' to learn it while your customers go someplace else. it's called FREE ENTERPRISE. IT DOESN'T LIKE TO BE 'MESSED WITH'.

owner who is smoking, it's his customers. the health inspector cannot say ANYTHING about them. he cannot mandate that THEY stop what is a legal activity. as long as it is TAXED AND REGULATED, IT IS LEGAL. as long as the cigarettes are not being used to make poisons that are then forced down the other patron's throats in LETHAL DOSES, which can easily be done by soaking one in water, and making a patron drink that water, killing him almost instantly, the state can say nothing. it is up to the patron (the customer) to avoid cigarette smoke IF HE WISHES. it's not up to the state. if the state DOES make the statement that it IS harmful, it also takes on the responsibility of NOT SAYING IT SOONER, SAVING THOUSANDS, IF NOT MILLIONS OF LIVES. it also takes on the responsibility of taxing something harmful to the population, profiting off of other people's suffering. saying that it's okay to harm yourself and others simply because you are paying taxes on it. imagine the legal position that would put the state in. look what happened to the tobacco industry when THEY admitted it was harmful. they paid BILLIONS OF DOLLARS (mostly to states, not to victims). imagine what the states would have to pay when the 'useful idiots' found out that the state not only ALLOWED them to be hurt, but PROFITED FROM IT. no, the government of this state will take no such position, instead will allow you to be responsible for your OWN health and well being. if you wish to be responsible for someone else's health and well being, be prepared to be responsible to pay when they aren't healthy and well. the state is not in any kind of a rush to put themselves in that kind of predicament.

"a vast majority of the customers are the ones circulating the carcinogens." I don't believe the smokers make up the vast majority, that's why the non-smoking sections are all larger. You say it's the restaurant's job to satisfy the customer and that "the customer is always right". That's only true to a certain extent. If a bar has a capactiy limit and a customer wants to enter, what happens? They have to wait in a line outside until a certain amount of people leave. Even though they may think they have the right to enter, the customer is NOT right in this circumstance, because it violates the safety code of the building. If a customer decides when they get in the restaurant to move their table and chairs right smack in front of the fire exit, what happens then? They CAN'T do it, because it violates the fire code. Customers HAVE to obey the regulations of the building so, in actuality, they AREN'T always right. How can a smoker be mad, and take it out on the restaurant by not returning, if the state decides to add smoking to the list of health guidelines the restaurant must follow? It's not the restaurant's fault. The owner isn't denying satisfying the customer, it would just break the health code if the building, like any of these other examples. I don't want the state to "run" my life. I just want them to make sure restaurants that are set up to feed the public, maintain a clean environment, and this includes the air. HOW can a business follow regulations, such as keeping the freezers at the right temp. and having fire exits, KEY SAFETY ISSUES, and then NOT think that the air in the building shouldn't be part of those safety measures??? They can't have mold spores floating around, so HOW can they justfy smoke???

Well if it is soooo damn bad, BAN THEM< MAKE THEM ILLEGAL. Nope, they would NEVER do that, too much tax $$$. And does your little study say how much FAT PEOPLE cost us? So BAN JUNK FOOD. And does your little study say how much BOOZE cost us? BAN THE CRAP! See how that works our for you moron. And while your at it, make cars illegal. they kill alot. You moron, it isn't about HEALTH, 'cause if it was, they'd be ILLEGAL. Tis about $$$ and feel good BS Gov. FIX the damn BUDGET, NO NEW taxes. Stay out of my wallet, my personal life and the LEGAL choices I made. You think these people are your momma? PS, I don't smoke, never have.

Best reply I've seen here. PERFECT and RIGHT ON!