Michigan Votes Forum

Can they go in and just deduct $500.00 for this out of my account without notice? They did it! It has thrown us into financial devastation. This was taken out of our account because our son's name was on our account and it was his fee not ours? Any help on this matter?

I had my licence suspended for inabilty to pay my driver response fee with 2 years despite haveing a payment plan in act, then still drove in order to get to and from work I mean how do we pay fees if we can not work and of course was pulled over for a simple thing of haveing a tail light out and got a driveing on suspended , I went tocourt payed my fine and was given another driver responseability fee on top of the first one and sent on my way, I had to go to work if I am ever to pay this crap off and once again stopped for a loud exaust that I dont even have and another driveing on suspended for me and court date of june 9th, what are we supose to do we are screwed no matter what we do we cant drive cant get a restricted licence and the fines and fees just keep racking up yet how do we work if we cant drive and how do we pay if we cant work, this law is so redicioulous we all need to go and get this out before everyone has no right to drive or even have a means to live by what does the united states expect from us the rich get richer and the poor keep getting robbed,

"Can they go in and just deduct $500.00 for this out of my account without notice? They did it! It has thrown us into financial devastation. This was taken out of our account because our son's name was on our account and it was his fee not ours? Any help on this matter?" Nope. It is absolutely legal for them to have taken the money from your account if your son's name was also on the account. Legally, he is considered to be an equal account holder with you and entitled to any or all of the money in that account. That's why people need to be very careful about who they put on their bank accounts. It happened to my sister. She put her boyfriend on her account and he took the money and spent it. There was nothing she could do about it because he was the account holder the same as she was. Sorry that happened to you but you have no legal recourse in this situation because your son's name was on the account.

"Did you know Michigan court houses are running out of money" i happened to be unfortunate enough to have to appear at the livonia courthouse on ticket day. When I pulled in about a half hour before it opened I saw that i probably wasn't going to be able to get a parking spot. You couldn't get this many people to show up at Wal Mart if they were giving away beer. Finally I found a spot and walked in. Standing in the court room listening to all the b.s. tickets I figured that they took in about 300 grand that day. All they need is a few overpaid government employees and some cops that hate the citizens. They don't produce anythiny, improve anything, fix anything or provide any kind of service. And they wonder why people want out of here.

I had e-mail correspondence with my state representative, Richard Hammel, and this essentially is what he told me: The drivers responsibility fee has been challenged on constitutional grounds in some of the other states where it is the law. He also wanted to tell me he understood my frustration with the law in Michigan, which is definitely onerous. Only the courts should be allowed to uphold and interpret the laws, not the secretary of state's office. And, no, I have never had to pay the fee, for I have worked very hard to reform my driving ways. Can't the state see we are in a major recession bordering on a depression? These career pols just don't get it - people in Michigan cannot afford to continue feeding you. State government needs to start living within its means. By slapping all kinds of fees on people, you have ruined the one thing that could produce economic growth here - an affordable place to work, live, and raise a family. Everyone complains about corporate greed, but guess what? Government greed is killing this once great nation from within by killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

if this bill is not acted on before the end of the year, it is then voided

For crying out loud, what a whiner you are. Gotta' tell you too, for an 'adult' your spelling and grammar are horrific. Perhaps rather than hang out with a bunch of under-aged drinking buddies you should take a remedial english class or two at your local high school. That way you could still socialize with younger kids but maybe learn something other than their bad habits.

I talked to one of Senator John Gleason's representatives last night at the Flushing Fair, and he told me the bill to repeal the driver's responsibility fee has passed the House, and is now being considered in the Senate. I have been told that this bill will probably be passed, only to have Jenny veto it. Then they will have to override her veto. I hope they can muster enough votes to override her veto.

As I said, I met with one of Senator John Gleason's representatives on Saturday, and this confirms what he said. Visit this website at: http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/24/2421.asp You may need to cut and paste this web address.

This is about the repeal effort of the driver responsibility fee in the House, which I reported had passed and probably will pass the senate, only to potentially face Jenny's veto: It is from The Newspaper.com, whom I tried to provide a link. At any rate, here's the story, dated 6-13-2008: Michigan Moves to Eliminate Speeding Ticket Tax The Michigan state House of Representatives takes the first step toward repealing abuser fees. Philip LaJoy The Michigan House Transportation Committee voted unanimously yesterday to eliminate the state's driver responsibility fees. State Representative Bettie Cook Scott (D-Detroit) first introduced a bill that would have reduced some of the yearly fees imposed on drivers convicted of various offenses. State Representative Philip LaJoy (R-Canton Township) agreed with Scott's direction, but thought her measure did not go far enough. He convinced the committee to modify the language so that it eliminated the fees in their entirety, especially the annual tax imposed on motorists with points on their license. After paying a speeding ticket, for example, a motorist can face a second annual penalty of $100 per year or more. "These heavy-handed judgments are the same as double jeopardy on Michigan drivers," LaJoy said in a statement. "They are excessive fees that have not had an impact on fixing Michigan's roads or public safety." Virginia imposed its own speeding ticket tax in July 2007, but voter outrage forced lawmakers in March not only to cancel the program, but refund every dollar it had collected. The success of Virginia's repeal may help boost the likelihood that LaJoy's measure will make it through the full House and Senate, which must approve the measure for it to take effect. If this happens, those who owe existing fees would only need to pay back one-half of the amount owed in a "partial amnesty." One of the unintended consequences of Michigan's driver responsibility program has been the creation of unlicensed drivers. Under a typical scenario, Michigan's Secretary of State will suspend a driver's license if a single fee or tax is not paid, even if the bill had been mailed to the wrong address. When this happens, a motorist may not even know that he is driving under a suspended license. Then, if stopped, he faces a mandatory $1000 ticket tax on top of a $150 license reinstatement fee. "This legislation was designed to fatten state coffers," LaJoy said. "The legislature is doing the right thing by repealing the fees for drivers in the future, and it is only fair to do everything we can to those who have already fallen victim to these fees." The bill's greatest hurdle may be Governor Jennifer Granholm (D), who thus far has resisted efforts to repeal the fees that have generated $383 million since 2004. New Jersey, New York and Texas also have driver responsibility taxes.

The Driver Responsibility Fee is a sickening symptom of corruption, conflicts of interest, thievery, narcissistic politically driven egotistical mania of officials, bureaucratic bullying mentality, hypocrisy, power lust and governmental hubris. We have allowed this to happen as we have not been able as citizens to effectively combat the previously mentioned destructive forces. The powers that be watch closely our reactions to oppressive measures they impose. So far they have been able to reach directly into paychecks with withholding laws - FICA tax, Medicare tax, Federal Income Tax, State Income Tax, and for some - the Local Income Tax. We accepted this with our trusting kind hearts - thinking we are doing our part to support government. Unfortunately it always seems that when you give an inch someone will take a mile. We now have condoned this practice and when the bully sees an easy mark his efforts intensify. If money is power (which seems to be the case) we have less and they have more. The Driver Responsibility Fees are so blatantly outrageous and sneaky that those who seek to impose and continue them can never say they are for policy which supports the "working man and the most vulnerable". I have seen the Gestapo demand letters from the Department of Treasury - truly frightening and not far from Nazi tactics of using fear and intimidation to extort money and thus gain more power. This is a nightmare situation which puts many people between a rock and a hard place. It obstructs the fundamental ability to survive and earn a living. I hope that somehow the premise that driving is a privilege can be changed for we all know the importance of this basic need when it comes to employment and mobility. It is despicable to deliberately hinder the foundation of our founding principles - right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Your post is right on, but here you have inadvertently identified the entire problem: "So far they have been able to reach directly into paychecks with withholding laws - FICA tax, Medicare tax, Federal Income Tax, State Income Tax, and for some - the Local Income Tax. We accepted this with our trusting kind hearts - thinking we are doing our part to support government." We don't exist to "support government." We are individuals. We each have one life. It is ours to live to the fullest. It does not belong to the state. Think about it hard: ONE LIFE. That's it. You are not a pawn in somebody else's game. You're most definitely not the pawn of some grown-up high-school debate club member who decided to run for "office" in Lansing. "Support government." Ugh. That's the whole problem: this notion, developed over the past century, that Americans are subservient to the state, and not vice versa as intended. Driver responsibility fees are an abomination. I know that's a cliche, but I don't know any other word to describe it. They're the natural product of an America where the concept of freedom is no longer even recognized by most people, let alone celebrated. Many of you reading this are probably nodding your heads in agreement, comprehending and apprecating the words... but still ready to run out in November and give power to freedom-robbers such as Barack Obama and John McCain. Don't do it. Stop. Think. Find a candidate for whom power is not the end-all-be-all, who doesn't consider you a means to their end, who understands that YOU, not him, are the one who is supposed to be empowered. Either find that candidate, or don't vote. Don't continue to empower those who would toy with your ONE LIFE, by gracing them with the endorsement of your ballot.

Hello everyone: I'm working to get this law repealed for Texas. Please let me know what is going on with your fights! Virginia has repealed their DRL. If we can get out states to follow suite, this would be amazing for us! The object is to stop the court actions: they are not working or catching attention. We must educate everyone, let them make their decision to join/not support/ and take action. Join the fight against the DRL in all impacted states! If we join together-we WILL make a difference! Thanks for letting me post/vent: Mary Moody http://www.myspace.com/fightthetxresponsibilityp YouTube postings at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt5SU95y_oo to view the first posting and: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fljjLhLdwHE for the second. And Tamara has began a petition for the state of TX at: http://www.petitiononline.com/TXDRP07/petition.html

I agree wholeheartedly with your post and wish that you registered so I could follow your other posts. It's a relief to find other like-minded voters in this State!

do peoplw realize is this bill isn't vetoed by the end of the year, it is null and voided? Hpw many more of us are going to lose our license because of the econmy being so bad? come on congress start bcking the poop people remember the relection is coming up

Stop this money train to hell! It is unfair.

Yes I want to know has this bill passed, I have to kids to feed. I work two jobs and go to school and I need to be able to drive.

What is worse is the fact that some clerks upon taking your fees for ticket associated with this fee do not deduct the ticket fees after proof of insurance is presented or faxed to the court. If one pays the fee for the ticket, it is an admittance of guilt and you are still charged the fee.

The fees and the "gestapo" associated with these fees including law enforcement who are actually running plates and then registered owners name to see if you are suspended due to the fee. There are so many out there driving currently on suspended drivers licenses they are making a ton on the tickets. Sadly, I like Granholm and this fee and the lack of interest by the govs office including those who introduced and sponsored the bill should be in line waiting for their jobs to be eliminated. Notably, every single rep voted for it and 93 percent of Dems. They are all worried about their raises since this is part of what this supports.

I had a Driver Responsibility Assessment fee levied against my drivers license for a "Stop Sign Violation" in NY. I went back to college for a semester and studied Constitutional Law and filed a Federal Lawsuit against the Commissioner of Motor Vehicles, Nancy Naples, and the New York State Department of Motor Vehicles, and Karen T Gharhartt, and Ida Traschen for violations of my Civil Rights. My case was finally heard by a Federal Judge Mordue, in Syracuse, NY. Who dismissed my lawsuit because he said that any state agnecy and its employees are immune from lawsuits under the 11th Amendment. I can appeal this judges decision, but it will cost another 455 dollars to do so, but the fine I have tp pay is only 175 dollars, so its not worth it for me to continue my lawsuit which would have dragged on for another two years. In hindsight what I should have done was challeneged the Constituionally of New Yorks State Driver Responsibility Assessment Statement. Not the people who issued the statement I most likely would have won the case then I could have filed for damages against the State of NY. To file a lawsuit against the State of Michigan for unfair Driver Assessment fees. Go to your Federal Courthouse and get whats called a "Pro-se", read it it self explanatory and file your lawsuits. AND GET RID OF THE SOB'S IN OFFICE, RUN THEM OUT OF STATE. Then take there property like they take your money with fake laws and fees...

I now send him a reply e-mail telling him to get rid of the driver responsibility fee. And now I have told him that he is targeted by the Michigan Taxpayers Alliance for defeat due to his voting record of huge tax hikes. In addition, I have been making a big deal about the tax-and-spend folks like our Guvvie Jenny and Andy Dillon on John McCain's website. And a lot of people agree with me on many of McCain's positions. BTW: Palin is way better to look at than Jenny. And she doesn't talk down to people, either. You go, Sarah! You and McCain have my vote and full support!

hi my name is kenny and on the driver license it is your right to drive on the roads. it is not a privileg i have some us supreme court cases you might like to read i will list only a few there to many to list here. aptheker v.secetary of state 378 us. 500 [1964] boyd v. united states [1886] oregon v.mitchell 400 us 618 [1970] i have 35 pages of court rulings on driver lic.

the income tax only applys to a small group of people.most people think that thay are us citizen you are not. you are a common law state citizen title 26 is not law on state citizen only if you work for us goverment.there is a ton of us supreme court cases on this to many to list here look them up.

but the big nanny government can take away a so called privelege...That's why they hate God given rights and love those politician controlled priveleges. It also makes them easier to tax and charge fees for.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree about the privilege thing and driving. Some people just don't have the ability to drive a car, and they could be a hazard to others. Not only do I believe it is a privilege, but a responsibility. That being said, the driver responsibility fee needs to be repealed post haste. But then again, count on Jenny to block this from happening, for she has all her people to feed at the public teat.

"Not only do I believe it is a privilege, but a responsibility" You and I have the Right to do whatever we please as long as we don't harm anyone or their property. They started this "privilege" nonsense about 30 years ago when the libs/socialists took over the schools. Since the nanny government can take away a privilege at will they like to have this hammer to hold over the serfs heads. "they could be a hazard to others" This statement scares me. if you hurt someone or their property there are already lots of laws to deal with it. Where would this end? I can drive with 3 beers in me lots better than a soccer mom on a cell phone but she can run you over with no penalty and I would go to jail. Why do we punish these two things differently? Because the nannies have taken that responsibility thingy out of our lexicon. If you think that it's okay to punish a guy because he's had 3 beers and then drove home without hurting anyone or anything then what is to stop me from jailing the not so bright kid down the street that is walking with a baseball bat? He has as much potential to harm someone as I did. How about the guy that pulls into a gas station on his way to deer hunting camp? He has guns and ammo in the truck and history has shown that guns and gas stations are a deadly mix. Once you let the state punish "POTENTIAL" harm then you have relinquished all your frredoms to your new mommy, the gubmint.

it don't mater if you agree or not that driving is a right and always has been.the courts have ruled this over and over.how good or bad a person drives has nothing to do with it.goverments can not take your rights and turn them into a privilege only you can stop this.

 go to http://www.petitiononline.com/mdrl06/petition.html to sighn the petition to get rid of this money stealing law

     As queen Jennifer ponders how much to increase our gas tax and auto registration fees, we are witnessing an exodus from our state composed largely of our youth. Why do you suppose she chooses to raise money from the poorest people in our state? Only Michigan and Rhode Island lost population in 2008. Michigan has the highest unemployment rate in the state. Whats wrong with this picture? I agree the driver responsibility fee is wrong and unlawful. I also believe that the state cannot lawfully profit by making driving a priveledge. We need to hold our elected officials accountable and provide means for change. I believe we should start by "re"-criminalizing traffic laws. If we all got the jury trials our constitution guarantees, our jurors would put a quick stop to law enforcement writing $60 tickets for no seat belt. The court system would grind to a halt, resulting in law enforcement being held accountable to the people. Another idea would be someone to design a template that any locale could use which allowed locals to blog about their experiences with local law enforcement. The website would have all local law enforcement officials pictures and records. Easy access to internal affairs and freedom of information. Wall of shame or fame. Access to attorneys or free legal information. Based on the frequency the police blotter is viewed in our local paper, I would have to believe that a site like this would bring much pressure to bear against law enforcement that is more focused on raising revenue and less focused on protecting and serving.

 I'am with you. I was born in this state in 1971 and have lived here all my life. And I loved ever min. of it growing up. But every year, for the last 15 year its gotting worse and worse. And the last three gov. has had there hands in the down fall of michigan, as I see it . And grandmole being the wrost. And the only way to change it is to stand up. I ask were are thoutghs who used to stand up and kick ass for the good of man. Enstead of all these KISS ASSES that do all this talking of doing something, and when it comes  time to make a stand there not around. I can say Iam one that will stand up to the end for the good of man kind. I have people in my family that fought in ever war sents Rev. war. I just laid rest this past fall my 94 year old great uncle who was in world war II .  He was a proud man that put his life on the line for his country to fight Communisnum. And it makes me sick to see the unjust law's and the robbing of the people going on by the Goverment that he went to fight for. There not happy with all the depression they but on other county's people. Now there done it to there owen people that are paying them there pay checks. I hate to think of there ever beening a nether cival war in the united states. But things do n't change, and the unjust laws for money grabs do n't stop it will happen. They us the unjust laws to keep us down. It's true if you kick a dog enough times he will bite. And I can say I am feed-up to and about to BITE theres power in numbers. We need to start with cival and none violant protest. To let ower ledders know ower out-rage. And not on this Blog but in the public eye's so all can here ,and see what kind of hardships these unjust laws are putting on family,s. The middle class ones that has made this state wheels keep going around are hurt and going with out and soon the wheel going to stop all together. It can change today if we stand together, but we need to stop talking and GETTER DONE   WHOLEEBOB @   wholeebob@comcast.net   God bless you all and god bless Michigan

 you say your a cob and against the DRFL . But if you pulled some one over coming or going to work,for a light out or some thing small. And there Lin. suspend for it and they did all there time. Would you still take them to jail noing the hard it going to make for them or would you tell them to go home. If you took them to jail, I can say you still don't get it

 hey bob.

there is a difference between DISAGREEING WITH A LAW and REFUSING TO DO YOUR JOB.

asking a cop whether or not he would take someone to jail who has broken the law is like asking if a politician wants to raise taxes.

OF COURSE they're going to take lawbreakers to jail. we wouldn't want to pay them as cops if they didn't.

it's not the cops job to INTERPRET the law, just to ENFORCE IT.

 

 Ha crazycajun thanks for your reply. And Iam understanding the point your makeing about doing your job.  When Iam working for a builder sents Iam a carpenter by tread, I do my job that Iam ask to do to the best of my abilatey. Even if its a *** job. but if I was ask to frame a stair well or frame a wall up  in a way that was unsafe to were it would hurt some one and there family should I still do it because it was my job. Or should I do whats right and not do it.  I would hope you become a cop to serve and protect. And when laws are broke and it calls for jail time one should do his time . But when one has broke the law and has done his time. And he trying to change his life for the better,and work to provide for his family,and a peace of paper thats says he can drive. Is taking from them for unpaid money's that he doesn't have. Take him to jail and hurt everyone in his family. When all he was doing was doing his job to provide for his family. I may have been in the wrong my self when I drove on a suspend Lin. I did my jail time. But all i was trying to do is make my house payment and feed my self with my owen hard work. And I lost my house my car my job, and now Iam a berdin to the state and my family. And on food stamps just to eat. I was had a good job and was able to help out friends and family, and felt good that i was able to do so. I've soported my self sents i was a teenager.  But Ive been beat down and I don't see of any way of getting back on my feet. Other than take the chance that I took before and pray Iam not stop again. I ask what do i do wholeebob@comcast.net

 Readers of this thread should be aware of Dec. 11 House action on 2007 House Bill 5518. The bill as substituted and amended did not pass, but there was a serious effort to repeal the "bad driver tax" and replace it with a much lower tax imposed on all moving violation convictions. This indicates a recognition by the House leadership of the destructive effects of this tax, and a desire to get rid of it. Replacing the revenue with a new "ticket tax" is problematic for the reason cited in the description below, but that detail is best discussed in a separate thread.

'Amendment offered by Rep. Richard Hammel (D) on December 11, 2008, to repeal the “driver responsibility fees” imposed by Public Act 165 of 2003, and make up the revenue by imposing a new $35 "assessment" on each moving violation conviction, on top of a current $15 fee. Note: Under current law, except for these "bad driver" surtaxes, revenue from regular driving law violations does not go to the state general fund, in order to avoid creating direct fiscal incentives for writing more tickets. The amendment passed in the House by voice vote on December 11, 2008.'

 thanks for filling us in.

quota's strike again....

 there is nothing unsafe about making an arrest for a bad law. it's unjust, not unsafe.

back in the clinton days, thousands of police officers were asked if they would kick down their family's doors to take away their guns. many said no, some said yes.

it's what made the rank and file UNION COPS vote republican.

I've lived in Michigan all my life but when I was given the opportunity to move out of state, I took it.

So if any of the Michigan legislature happen to scan this thread, you can quote me in saying that the 2nd most important cause of my decision to leave was the DRF - 1st being the economic conditions.  Which are closely related.

I refuse to pay the fees.  They'll have to steal the money from me in order to get it because I will NOT give it willingly.

 a tax is what citizens pay for necessary services.

a fee is what citizens pay for UNNECESSARY services.

a fine is what citizens pay for breaking the law.

what SERVICES are provided by this DRIVER'S FEE?

none. it only serves to PUNISH DRIVERS TWICE. which is unethical, unconstitutional, illegal, and just plain wrong.

 

the problem is she is not a democrat she is a republican in sheep’s clothing... democrats are smarter then this mess we have been in slaved into!!!

I didn’t get to vote on the Drivers Responsibility fee.. did you