Michigan Votes Forum

Introduced in the House on November 14, 2006

Click here to view bill details.

This bill is hysteria, plain and simple. There is absolutely no evidence, study or data that the proponents of this bill can point to showing that lead shot or other ammunition is actively contaminating soil and ground water in concentrations higher than what occurs naturally. Further, there may be a more sinister side to this legislation. Steel shot costs far more than lead, which would raise the cost of ammunition and hunting in general. The number of hunters is already in decline, and "animal rights" people who want to see it banned will stoop to any level to stop it. This may be one more front in their attack on hunting and recreational shooting in general. Bottom line: there is no good reason to consider, let alone enact, this legislation. There IS good reason to can it.

The only way to get lead poison is to ingest it. AKA eat lead. By making a new bill/law that is more harm to those who depend on the money generated by us hunters, such a the hunting license, You pretty much cut down the rights to own a gun let along hunt for food that is safer then the current food supply being sold as safe. Aka beef. I don't see a law that stops chickens from eathing their own droppings. Or a law that makes Turkeys stay off the country roads. So come on Michigan elected people wake up quick trying to tell us what can be harmful. I can also say that if you did a good low cost money research then maybe you would find out that the reason behind this law is to hurt any state that has hunting in it. SignWatcher

I participated in a similar discussion a number of months ago in connection with the ban on lead fishing tackle. That anti-fishing measure was based on another enviro-wacko red herring. Now, it appears that similar illogic and junk science are being used to fear-monger and attack the shooting sports. Gee...who didn't see this coming? Jim Arvada, CO

Jimbo! The chief enviro-wacko around here these days seems gto be you. Have a good, polluted life.

you just don't like jim.

:-)

Yeah, nummy. I stand FOR dirty air, dirty water and pollution of all kinds. That's why I moved to Colorado...somewhere near Golden, actually. You may have seen the commercials. It's really filthy out here! I just stand against red herrings, hidden agendas and the stupidity that allows both to become public policy. Jim Arvada, CO

"I stand FOR dirty air, dirty water and pollution of all kinds." That is environmental wacko-ism at its apex.

HOUSE BILL No. 6652 November 14, 2006, Introduced by Reps. Kolb and Zelenko and referred to the Committee on Conservation, Forestry, and Outdoor Recreation. A bill to amend 1994 PA 451, entitled "Natural resources and environmental protection act," (MCL 324.101 to 324.90106) by adding section 40111c. THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN ENACT: Sec. 40111c. (1) Beginning 20 years after the effective date of the amendatory act that added this section, a person taking game by firearm shall use only steel or other state or federally approved nontoxic shot and shall not have any other shot, such as lead shot, in his or her possession. (2) The department or commission, as appropriate, shall provide by order for the phasing-in of the prohibition under subsection (1) during the period preceding the effective date of the full prohibition. Before issuing an order under this subsection, the department or commission shall consult with interested persons, including, but not limited to, the Michigan united conservation clubs, the Michigan environmental council, and the Michigan Audubon society. (3) If a species of game was not listed in the definition of game under section 40103 in effect on the effective date of the amendatory act that added this section, a person taking that species of game shall use only steel or other state or federally approved nontoxic shot and shall not have any other shot, such as lead shot, in his or her possession.

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bill? is it because lead shot is used for hunting, and you support an "anti-hunting" agenda? lead has NOT been found to be the "problem" that so many "anti-hunting" groups would have us believe. lead shot has safely and sanely been used for hundreds of years by hunters and recreational shooters around the world. why now, all of a sudden, has lead become a "problem"? because the "anti-hunters" know that driving up the cost of hunting will make fewer people hunt. that is their aim. is it YOURS?

true michigander. at least you are HONEST about it.

It's a real challenge to reach NCLB standards with lead poisoning.

Do you have any evidence that anyone -- ANYWHERE -- has been brain damaged by lead FROM SHOT??? (Aside from a home invader taking lead the traditional way, of course!) :) The FACT is that more kids get lead from PAINT CHIPS than any kind of water or food contamination. Kids will put almost anything in their mouths, but I haven't heard of any of 'em eating shotgun shells or scooping-up mouthfuls of dirt with shot in it -- which is exactly what it would take to suffer any kind of ill effects from lead shot. The FACT is that lead is found almost everywhere in the soil and is a natural part of the environment. Shot, when left in soil, or even when fired directly into water, doesn't leach into the supply in any significant amount. In fact, unless a volatile chemical is present, it doesn't readily break down at all. This bill is simply hysteria. It is NOT a health issue. It IS an attack on hunting and sport shooting in general. (a.k.a. more people trying to tell others what to do by force of law regardless of being in the so-called "land of the free.") How 'bout this: if you don't like hunting, then DON'T HUNT. If you don't like guns, then DON'T BUY ONE. But leave everyone else alone. This bill is CRAP and needs to be shredded ASAP.

from this crowd will only bring out the same bunch of people who put out the bogus "studies" and "reports" that are throwing "red herrings" in the death penalty thread. the "anti-hunting" crowd doesn't mind stooping to an untruth or two here and there. their use of "the sky is falling" hysteria proves that point well. this is a made up "problem", supported by "made up" data, all in an effort to stop legal hunting.

what the research says about lead from bullets in meat. If it truly is a problem, then ban it.

If we can prevent problems, then do it. What does the research say about lead in bullets? Let's just be scientific about this and be open-minded and not selfish.

I don't think legislators would do ANYTHING to hurt our economy or tourism with a good reason. They must have SOME research that says there is a danger. Has anyone heard anything along those lines?

There must be something dangerous about the lead. Right?

?????????????

your point with real data and facts.

I imagine our economy will be stronger and turned around with diversification by then.

Have you, either way?

I suspect that there could be a problem with lead, not only in the ground, but elsewhere. If you buy or sell a house today, or rent one, there is paperwork that must transfer regarding the age of the house. The age of the house is in regards to the date that lead based paints were made illegal, and so it is assumed that earlier built houses have lead based paint in them It is assumed that newer houses do not. Believe it or not, the problem appears to be with children who eat peeling paint from woodwork, thereby retarding the little tykes to varying degrees. Also, I have heard that lead based solder is illegal in residential construction. Is this due to lead from the solder contaminating the air of the plumber doing the soldering of water lines? I have also become aware of water filtering units being available that will remove "heavy metals" or lead, among other stuff, from the water. We are all agreed that leadshot in ponds and shore waters is proven to be harmful to game birds, though, right? The enviro-wackos might be right on this one. I am surprized that nobody has come up with this earlier. That said, I would still like to see some hard evidence to make the case before it gets written into law.

all agreed. there is no hard evidence that (other than lead poisoning from eating lead shot directly) there is any other damage from lead. it was once thought that lead pipes "caused" the downfall of the roman empire. if that were the case, then a vast majority of the cities in the united states, including most cities in michigan, would be in trouble, because lead is in most of the old pipes, and in almost all of the solder used in the new pipes. lead poisoning is easily recognizable, and very easily tested for. the tests are not cheap. if there is a REASON to test for lead, then please do so, if not, worrying about it will not do anything positive for you. as for "lead shot problems", they are being trumpeted by the "anti-hunting" groups out there in an effort to stop legalized hunting and all shooting eventually.

Roman Empire. AND STILL DO. SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT. Try being a teacher in a state with lead poisoning. If there is something we can do, we should. There is PLENTY more we could do. Why would someone introduce the bill unless there was evidence of danger. That would be irresponsible and a waste of time. I am curious what the research says. This legislator would be wise to share the data with the media and public.

either there IS a problem with lead. (easily diagnosed) or there ISN'T. maybe your legislator IS wasting time.

Is lead screening ROUTINE for children? Are adults and teachers proficient in recognizing symptoms? I doubt it. Doctors are getting better, but things are FAR from perfect, and if you were a teacher trying to meet NCLB standards, you would understand the urgency for wanting to fix this problem in any way possible instead of looking at it as a drain on your pocketbook. The newspaper said recently that people are not getting adequate follow up care once diagnosed. This continues to be a problem, especially for the poorer population which in turn is a problem for education and in turn for the work place and in turn for the taxpayer when they pay for welfare because that person can't keep a job or goes to prison for violent behavior. BE PROACTIVE ABOUT LEAD POISONING NOT REACTIVE!!!! There is going to be a cost somewhere, but do it ahead of the damage and not BEHIND the damage. Follow?

introduce this bill if there was no problem with lead? simple. if there is no lead, there is no hunting. if there is no hunting, there is no "legitimate need" for owning a weapon. if there is no "legitimate need" to own a weapon, then all weapons can be successfully banned. if all weapons are successfully banned, then the liberals can pass all the taxes they want, or do whatever else they want, and you can't do a damn thing about it.

Yet a life and update your meds:)

well known, age old liberal policy that has been in the works in every state in the union, and is slowly picking away at gun rights nationwide. the people of new orleans, after the horror of Katrina, had to live with the indignity of having their front doors kicked in and their legally owned weapons confiscated and destroyed. they were NEVER compensated. this directly violates the second amendment of the constitution of the united states, and of the state of louisiana. a democratic governor did it. maybe you should just say no to drugs.

It's about brain damage. Nobody is out to get you by changing metal in bullets. PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ! lol

!!

i don't either.

your students have tested positive for lead poisoning?

going to be any safer or better for you than lead?

let's see. you can't own a weapon in this state unless you apply to a gun board first. IF they say yes, and that's a BIG if, THEN you can apply for a permit to purchase a weapon. after paying a fee (tax) then, you can go purchase a weapon. THEN you have to bring it in front of the gun board again to have it REGISTERED. after that, you have to take it to the POLICE DEPARTMENT to have it SAFETY INSPECTED. this "inspection", by the way, doesn't REALLY check for safety (read the back of the form) it just RE-REGISTERS the weapon. both of these things COST MONEY. then, if you wish to CARRY that weapon to defend yourself, you have to apply for, and be approved for a permit. (again, for a fee (tax)) now, in all my years of law enforcement, there has never been a time when gun registration has been credited with stopping a crime. guns are stolen daily. no crook EVER says 'oh, darn. i can't steal this perfectly good weapon, it's REGISTERED.' and yet, we register weapons daily, at great cost to shooters. changing the metal in ammunition COSTS MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. the benefit is MINIMAL. it costs hunters MORE money to hunt. some can't afford this. it's not the rich hunters who will be stopped, it's the poor hunters who will be stopped. if you get enough poor hunters to stop hunting, the lands once open to hunting can be easily closed. this is happening already. why? not because hunters destroy or deface the environment, but because landowners believe that hunters are poisoning their land with an ounce of lead. there are TWENTY POUNDS of lead in every car battery in the country. you don't see any great cry to change THAT metal, do you?

think so...

okay, teach... lesson one. GET is spelled G...E...T... not Yet. you gotta quit smoking the ritalin that you confiscate from your add/adhd students.