Michigan Votes Forum

why on EARTH would i want to do that?

tell your loved ones to stay out of jail, and all your problems with "the system" and "conjugal visits" will be over with. this will involve some "sacrifices" in the lifestyle of your loved one. they will have to give up drugs. in the end, this is a good thing. be advised, they may not be the same "person" that you fell in love with after they stop taking drugs. if this is too big of a sacrifice, then your loved one is telling you that they love to take drugs more than they love you.

evidence of "trumped up charges and even crimes". i am personally and professionally interested in hearing what you have to say and seeing what you have to show me. this is a serious allegation you have made, and i hope you have some hard evidence to back it up. of course, if these allegations are FALSE, which they usually are, then we will once again consider the source.

for an infamous example, Google the case of the "choctaw three" who were convicted in Alabama of a 1999 "murder" that could not possibly have happened

a woman lying, and three other people CONFESSING TO THE LIE constitute trumped up charges by the government. nice try though. if anyone "trumped up" a charge, it was the woman who lied in the first place. THIS is what happens when people don't tell the truth, and when other STUPID people confess to the crime. i wonder why reasonable people would CONFESS to murder? the government didn't stalk them down and "pin" these charges on them, they freely confessed, unless wiccipedia is not to be believed either.

actually read that Wickipedia entry evidence is that you did not

My husband was set up by his ex-wife and her daughter...for nothing more than greed...they were divorcing, but she didn't want to split...she wanted it all....after the charges were filed....after he was unable to take the stand to defend himself...after none of his evidence to prove himself innocent was allowed, after all the lies were told....after his attorney continually introduced himself as prosc. attorney,...attorney for the mother...and even admitted he was having an "identity issue" with himself, the jury convicted him on just her word....with no evidence what so ever...so can someone explain exactly what is fair here?

and why wasn't his testimony allowed?

He was charged with a CSC1, His lawyer told him if he took the stand in his own defence....He wouldn't question him...He also paid this Lawyer 20,000....His lawyer did absolutely nothing, except do lunch with the Prosc. Attorney, that much we do know....so much for our justice system....the so called "victim" was heard telling the prosc. attorney that "it wasn't supposed to be like this" after my husband recieved 15-30 yrs....she also took the stand and said she didn't want him to recieve any jail time....hmmmmmmmmmm.....why not?...so again....exactly what was fair about any of this....and yes his ex-wife recieved a 200,000.00 home, a new truck, and the bank account....my husband got a destroyed life and an 8x10 cell....so again...until you know the whole story...please don't judge....thats Gods job.

was he convicted of a sex crime with no proof???

pretty vague. is there something you aren't telling us? it's pretty tough to swallow that a high dollar lawyer just sat there and allowed a paying client to be railroaded FOR NOTHING. it also sounds like you are describing a divorce proceeding more than a criminal trial. the two are usually separate. if things are exactly as you describe, then your loved one has PLENTY of grounds for an appeal. there would be A.C.L.U. attorneys camped out in your front yard just chomping at the bit to take this case.

How does someone get convicted of a sex crime with absolutely no evidence what so ever....but it happened....the pros. attorney moved the "timeline" of which the so called victim claims he assulted her...which at the timeline he was working full time as a foreman in a machine shop...reroofing the 3 story home and the 4 car garage, which took him almost 2 months to do because he only had weekends and after work to do it...and had receipts and witness's showing his whereabouts throughout the whole time,...but alas, it was her word against his...her mother and 2 of her friends were her witnesses....everything was "hearsay"...its just so wrong....but getting back to the conjugal visits....more than anything I just want my husband home...he shouldn't be there...he did nothing more than take care of this woman and her 4 children for 14 years...providing them with whatever they needed....but that wasn't enough...they wanted more....they wanted it all.

These days its too easy for women to cry wolf....women don't file for divorce anymore...they files charges....girlfriends don't just get mad...they get revenge...and society has allowed this to happen....what happened to innocent before being proven guilty...here in michigan that just don't happen.....I have 4 sons of my own and every day i fear that thaey may piss someone off and end up next to my husband....YES IT IS THAT EASY....im living it every day....and society has allowed this to happen....so not only does my husband have to pay for the rest of his life for something he didn't do....so do I....

but she didn't file criminal charges. what did she say he did to her?

When i went to pick up his file from his lawyer...of which the lawyer claimed was "huge"...it was nothing more than the statements from everyone involved....the notes that my husband had given to him....and 2 copies of the so called victims diary....thats it....that was the "huge" file...so you tell me what he did for 20,000.00....absolutely nothing...im a firm believer that lawyers that take on a CSC case should not get paid unless they win the case....maybe that way they will actually work for the money and not just sit back and do absolutely nothing....as my husbands lawyer did.

"there would be A.C.L.U. attorneys camped out in your front yard just chomping at the bit to take this case." The aclu doesn't give a rats patoot about most of these cases. They only want the high profile, lets turn America into a socialist county kind of cases. They might take it if the so called "victim" is a member of a favored group and the accused is an evil white male but then it is a long shot. I've sat on three juries in the last ten years and lost all respect for the judicial system in this country.

that "do nothing" attorney would have had a hell of a time cashing that check if he did nothing for it.

that means that you had three chances to MAKE A DIFFERENCE. DID YOU?

you said that your husband was convicted of a "csc1". that covers a lot of territory. sexual crimes are USUALLY taken very seriously by the police and the courts. these proceedings are public, and the police have a "burden of proof" to meet before things like this are let into a courtroom. you are trying to tell me that a vindictive woman MADE UP a story, told it to the police, and they, after investigating, believed her completely, and sent this thing to trial? then, at that trial, the prosecuting attorney didn't ALLOW the defendant, or his high priced, do nothing attorney to speak, to get on the stand, nor did they even LOOK at any evidence that he presented? there is something that we are not being told.

so he can be tarred and feathered.

a "csc1" involves sex with a minor. was a "rape kit" used? what were the results?

i'm sitting here reading this thread and realizing that a very serious charge has been made about a man who, for all we know is innocent. criminal sexual conduct in the first degree can carry a LIFE SENTENCE. obviously, this man did not recieve a fair trial, by what we are being told, and by all the facts in hand was "railroaded". the net effect is, this man's LIFE can be taken away using shoddy methodology and poor courtroom proceedure. had this been a CAPITAL case, this case would have been AUTOMATICALLY revued by the superior courts, and AUTOMATICALLY sent to the supreme court if necessary to assure that this man's rights were not infringed. now, all the "facts" of this case are not in, and there may be other factors we don't know about, but on the face of it, as we see it now, i agree with this woman and have no faith in the "system" as it sits here in michigan. i personally don't believe that ANY case can stand without SOME bit of "truth". i'm having a hard time believing that a totally innocent man is doing hard time just because his ex hates his guts. i'm also having a hard time believing that his ex can say something like this, in court, without having to "back it up" some kind of way. now, if ALL trials in michigan are conducted this way, a certain poster on another thread has nothing to worry about, as NO trial run like this will pass supreme court muster. if, on the other hand, we are being "misled", then that is proof that some people will say ANYTHING to get the result they want.

this is from michigan law. "M Civ JI 8.01 Meaning of Burden of Proof I shall now explain to you the burden of proof which the law places on the parties to establish their respective claims. When I say that a party has the burden of proof, I mean the evidence must satisfy you that the proposition on which that party has the burden of proof has been established by evidence which outweighs the evidence against it. *(When I say that a party has the burden of proving a proposition by clear and convincing evidence, I mean that the evidence must more than outweigh the evidence against it. To be clear and convincing, the evidence must satisfy you that the proposition has been established with a high degree of probability.) You must consider all the evidence regardless of which party produced it." now, what part of this did the people of the "system" not understand and not follow?

It has happened....it happens everyday....look through the michigan court of appeals opinions under csc1...csc2....csc3...csc4...it happens everyday...whithout a shred of evidence....obviously no one here {thankfully} has ever had to deal with such a thing....most cases are judged with no evidence what so ever....just someones word....the jury my husband had asked the judge to see some of the evidence but was refused....why?????......she filed the charges in 2004, claiming he had assulted her back in 1998....only days after they agreed to divorce.....she claimed the assult began in 1990....but my husband and her mother didn't marry until 1993 and she then lived with her father until 1994....she claims he assulted her for many years.....but lived with him until the charges were filed....she was 22 when she filed the charges....she left my husband alone with her 2 yr old daughter...why???....if he had assulted her...why would she do that...just so many things....so many lies....yes my husband was railroaded....and michigan won't do anything about it....its a money thing.

why did the prosecutor take the case? why did the judge not allow evidence? why did she wait so many years to file charges? was the child examined for any evidence of assault? was any evidence found?

that is a problem with someone WAITING for years to file a claim, especially one for sexual assault. it happens so often, and is almost unprovable. people win those kinds of cases based on "benefit of the doubt". the logic is that it's better to wrongly prosecute a possibly innocent man than to allow a sexual assault, even a ficticious one, to go unpunished. this allows "abuses" to happen regularly, and usually without inpunity. the only safeguard to this is to have EVERY case investigated thoroughly, having EVERY fact being presented verified to the best of the investigator's ability, and throwing out those that can't be verified. waiting for years before filing a claim, especially a claim of sexual abuse, is an open invitation to being called a liar. one of the BIGGEST why's in this case is WHY the mother waited for years before filing this claim. i'm sure that there is more to this story than we are being told.

appealed??? is this guy just "accepting" the verdict?

He lost his first appeal...and is now waiting on the supreme courts....but we're not getting our hopes up...its michigan....Have you had this happen to you...if not....then you have no idea!!!!!how dare anyone question what my husband and I have gone through the past 2 1/2 years....why did all this happen....greed...plain and simple...why is that so hard for you to understand....its in the transcripts...want a copy?????????...How do i know all this....I met him six weeks after the chargers were filed...he had a teather, i saw all the statements...I read all the notes...I talked with all the witnesses,...I listened...I am a sexual abuse survivor....so please don't tell me what I know and what I don't know...If you've never been there....then please...don't act as if you do.

From the time the charges were filed...his ex-wife kept in constant contact with him...telling him she loved him...and even after he went to prison....for over a year she wrote to him...professing her love to him....telling him she wanted to be with him....he pushed for the divorce which finally happened 8 months later...and of course she got everything....just as she predicted....we were married 1 year after he went to prison...in the prison....why?....because I believe in him...i know in my heart that he was wronged....not by just his ex-wife....but by the system as well....so you ask WHY?????....me too.

THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE.......NONE......JUST HER WORD!!!!!!

Im not an attorney...Im just my husbands pitbull....ready to defend....ready to attack....but maybe I should have been his attorney....I could have done a way better job the he did.....FYI....all this happened in oakland county....we all know oakland county is a money county....they do whatever they have to do to get the money...even if it means destroying a life.

lost his appeal? there was NOTHING that they found wrong? i think we're still missing something...

But the ignorance of my fellow "peers" was scary.

moved to Macomb co. Then all you had to do was contribute to the prosecutors campaign fund.

juror to say "this isn't right". it's called "jury nullification". i'm still having a problem believing that "twelve good men and true" put your loved one behind bars for a signifcant period of time without a single shread of evidence, and allowed all the shenanigans to go on that you say happened. it would require an AMAZING amount of collusion between a tremendous amount of people, including the general public, all pointed at the single goal of putting an innocent man behind bars for something he didn't do. not that it's IMPOSSIBLE to happen, but for it TO have happened, it would require an AMAZING amount of co-operation that you just don't see in the public sector today. i'm a little bit disturbed by the "refusal to hear evidence" claim, especially since this has been to at least one appeal. michigan law may be strange and complex, but i don't think it's THAT far out of the mainstream as to allow something like this to happen without SOMEBODY taking notice.

you should be ready to defend, and ready to attack, but not to attack EVERYBODY. some things about what you say just don't add up. are you SURE there is nothing more to this? there MUST be something you aren't telling us.

How much more clear can i make this....my husband is in prison serving 15-30 yrs because his ex-wife got greedy....his lawyer didn't do his job...and our judicial system has a lot to be desired....he was convicted with no evidence...only her word...his evidence to prove himself innocent was not allowed...so what aren't you understanding here?.....its not rocket science....

How much more clear can i make this....my husband is in prison serving 15-30 yrs because his ex-wife got greedy....his lawyer didn't do his job...and our judicial system has a lot to be desired....he was convicted with no evidence...only her word...his evidence to prove himself innocent was not allowed...so what aren't you understanding here?.....its not rocket science....

why it wasn't allowed. usually courts are EAGER to hear evidence. unless it contrary to OTHER ESTABLISHED EVIDENCE. so you are saying that the judge and jury found this man guilty? that they just listened to one greedy woman, and nothing else? AND that his attorney stood there and said and did NOTHING to help defend him? AND that the judge ALLOWED this? AND that the superior courts of michigan CONDONED this? what's this guys name? the liberal media are DYING to put this kind of stuff in print. if what you say is true, you could be a REALLY rich celebrity in just a few minutes with one phone call to 20/20...

Amen to that. I too have lost all respect for our judicial system. It's a joke! And the criminals and their families and the rest of us are paying much more than we should.