Michigan Votes Forum

>The number of Loons that died on one Great Lake alone (I believe it was Erie) over an approximate three-year period ending 2005 is measured in the tens of thousands. Eighty-thousand is one estimate. >These birds died from botulism poisoning.< I have seen reports of loon and other waterfowl mortality in the Great Lakes associated with botulism. I don’t find the scale of loon mortality you report here, though. Perhaps the loon numbers you cite are puffed up with other species. But that raises a good point. It is not just loons affected by the ingestion of lead. Some 27 species are affected, including several varieties of swans and cranes, numerous duck species and bald eagles. Your focus on the loon misses a wider point. Here’s what Michigan’s DNR says about botulism: “Botulism is a paralytic condition brought on by the consumption of a naturally occurring toxin produced by the bacterium Clostridium botulinum . . . .” And: “Botulism is a food poisoning. The toxin-producing bacterium, C. botulinum , is common in surface soils of both the terrestrial and the aquatic environment. Toxins are produced only when conditions favor growth and multiplication of the bacterium. . . .” In other words, botulism is a naturally occurring phenomenon. It is not a result of toxic human-deposited materials that are implicated in the mortality of certain species. Lead is one of those toxic materials deposited by humans, and its toxicity to waterfowl has been recognized for more than a century. If we humans are responsible for having deposited something that's toxic and harms wildlife, don't we then have some kind of moral-ethical obligation to correct that situation as best we can, if we can? >Now you're tellin' me that you don't even question some screwball claim that forty-percent -- forty-percent -- of loon deaths a dozen years ago were due to lead poisioning -- presumably due to those stupid birds swallowing sinkers?< I believe the reference usually is to adult loon mortality. As I understand it, loons have a normal life span of 20-30 years. So they have a lot of potential exposure to toxins deposited in their feeding grounds. Also, you might do well to acquaint yourself with the how loons and other waterfowl become poisoned by ingested lead, and why they swallow sinkers. It has to do with their digestive mechanisms. And you might do well to ponder this note from the DNR about how much lead a bird has to ingest in order to become poisoned: “In waterfowl a dose as small as 1 pellet can result in anemia, while a lethal dose of 5 or more pellets can result in death due to heart attack or muscle paralysis. Occasionally cephalic edema (swollen head) may be seen in Canada geese.” And: “It has been proposed that the mortality directly due to lead poisoning may be secondary to the losses due to ‘non-lethal’ effects of lead such as reproductive problems, increased susceptibility to disease and infection, and increased predation due to anemia and weakened muscles.” >While I'm out fishing I'll pick up trash.< That’s a good, sportsmanlike thing to do. And you are to be applauded for it. Now, if we can persuade you to also stop using and depositing toxic lead fishing tackle that may be ingested by and poison waterowl, wouldn’t that be a dandy thing, too? It would be wholly in keeping with the true tradition of the ethical sportsman -- a way to further earn your spurs, so to speak. You’re almost there now, why not go all the way? HB 5775 is far from perfect in proposing a blanket ban on all tackle containing lead. But a well focused bill -- amendment -- to target only those items that creat the threat of lead poisoning by ingestion is something sportsmen should support.

I will be using lead free fishing tackle no matter what the legislative outcome. There's no question lead is toxic. The federal government has banned lead shot shells for hunting on U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service lands and nationwide for waterfowl hunting, and has banned lead in gasoline and paint because of its effects on animal and human health. Lead at toxic levels harms nervous systems, causing paralysis and eventually death. There are many side issues raised throughout this discussion (eg: pollution and overfishing), these are issues that I can work on, as I do not know of an immediate and viable solution. I CAN DO MY PART to fix the lead problem right now by not using lead fishing sinkers and other lead tackle, so that’s what I’ll do. I have done some research and found several manufactures of lead free products their details are listed below for anyone interested; http://www.drdropsinkers.com Lead free fishing sinkers http://www.AquariumMonsters.com.au/catalog/ Lead Free Fishing Tackle http://lead.org.au Lots of information on the dangers of lead

Oh my word....lead fishing jigs. Whoever dreamt this legislation up needs to have their head examined. I will leave my comments at that...

What's next banning lead solder for copper piping. They want me to stop using lead jigs and lead shot. But we keep importing canadian garbage day after day. That has to do wonders to the water table.

Already banned lead solder for pipes. New stuff doesn't work too good.

Find some data if it makes Michigan fisherpeople happy, though.

People who fish are reasonable people. Just be sure to have your research in order and educate the public through the news, please.

Glad to know there are people looking out for us.

a while back, so you can blame me. I come from a fishing family. My grandfather made the first down riggers on Lake Michigan, and he started the first skin diving club in our town. He used to help the police find bodies in the water, even in the winter. I stirred this up, and I HOPE that he would be proud of me. I am not a member of PETA. I'm sorry if you would have to buy new tackle. Perhaps there could be arranged a system in which fisher(people:) could turn in their lead tackle for some sort of credit or something. Tax credit, SOMETHING, to make this transition easier. I am a teacher, and I don't want any brain damage for children or anyone. Sorry. I know people with lead poisoning that may die. It's a big deal. I love the Lake, but, now we know better. Lewis and Clark's men used thunderclappers which contained mercury as they traveled across the US as a laxative. Not too bright, but they just didn't know any better. It's time to give up lead, too. I apologize for any inconvenience, but it's time. Historians theorize that the fall of the Roman Empire was due to the chemical reaction between the lead wine goblets and the wine, resulting in strange behavior and illness.

a while back, so you can blame me. I come from a fishing family. My grandfather made the first down riggers on Lake Michigan, and he started the first skin diving club in our town. He used to help the police find bodies in the water, even in the winter. I stirred this up, and I HOPE that he would be proud of me. I am not a member of PETA. I'm sorry if you would have to buy new tackle. Perhaps there could be arranged a system in which fisher(people:) could turn in their lead tackle for some sort of credit or something. Tax credit, SOMETHING, to make this transition easier. I am a teacher, and I don't want any brain damage for children or anyone. Sorry. I know people with lead poisoning that may die. It's a big deal. I love the Lake, but, now we know better. Lewis and Clark's men used thunderclappers which contained mercury as they traveled across the US as a laxative. Not too bright, but they just didn't know any better. It's time to give up lead, too. I apologize for any inconvenience, but it's time. Historians theorize that the fall of the Roman Empire was due to the chemical reaction between the lead wine goblets and the wine, resulting in strange behavior and illness. Lead has to go.

If you have some extra time, arrange to visit your legislator, or the one introducing this bill.

...another to do what lead does.

We are at the top of the food chain. Maybe you should try a fish fry and a few beers...you might enjoy it. Besides that, folks will like you better when you become happier and less smug.

Have you considered therapy?

We are not superior, and people eat these fish, so think about it.

:)

that's why I have enough brain cells left to know this is a good idea.

!

says a lot about Michigan which bills are most frequently visited

Have a nice day!

Do you own the internet? All hail Frantz, King of Michigan Votes!

Thank you

!

No one doubts that a small percentage of birds do find a way to ingest toxic substances, but most experts agree that no increase or decrease in the loon or raptor population will happen by eliminating lead. Getting the lead out of fishing tackle needs to be based on scientific facts and definable outcomes, not fear and misplaced hysteria. The fact is that only a few loons since 1976 have clearly been identified as having suffered lead toxicosis. Absent from studies often quoted by the people supporting this is the comprehensive 1999 study requested by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and conducted by the National Wildlife Health Research Center in Madison, Wisconsin. In this under-reported study, liver, blood, stomach, and radiograph samples were taken from 2,749 individual birds of 30 species. In addition, necropsy records of 36,671 waterbirds and bald eagles from the files of the National Wildlife Health Center from the years 1975 through 1999 were examined. The results showed that only 3.5 percent of common loons (from a sample of 313) had ingested lead sinkers and just 27 of 36,671 waterbird and bald eagle carcasses (0.007 percent) contained ingested lead sinkers. So, what happens to fishing tackle lost while angling? In our nonacidic, soft bottomed lakes, most objects such as lead sinkers are permanently buried within days. Lead in fishing tackle is not the same as lead in gasoline or paint. It is not airborne or accessible to children for ingestion. Workers making fishing lures are closely tested for lead levels and no reports of hazardous effects exist. they need to find something else to spend there time on beside this issue