Michigan Votes Forum

not TRUSTING an ATTORNEY?!?!?!??!?!?!? heaven forbid...

it won't become the law of the land until the governor signs it. even though it is supposedly "veto proof", her gut liberal instincts could win out, leaving us to have to push this through for a vote again.

>>Retreat never was mandated by law in Michigan, except in one very narrow circumstance.in other words, IT IS MANDATED.< Before crowing that you’ve taken a point here, Jasper, consider that the package of bills passed by the legislature did not change the absolute duty to retreat in the one narrow circumstance identified by the Michigan Supreme Court in People v Riddle.

before I trust an anonymous source on the internet. That said, you could be right, it could be that he was following the NRA's guidelines. In any case debates like this prove to me that this should be written into the law. Self-defense is such a critical area, the law should be spelled out in very plain language, so that any citizen can read it and know where they stand, without having to consult an attorney first.

if it can be done safely. It all depends on the situation at hand. Which is exactly why the law should not concern itself with whether or not someone retreated.

yes, i will raise a toast when this becomes the law of the land. and i will throw a MUCH BIGGER party when such anit-gun legislation as *permission to purchase requirement *mandatory registration *safety inspections that do not (and cannot) inspect for safety *idiotic vehicle carry restrictions are all repealed as well. EVERY citizen has the right to KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. EVERY citizen has the right to protect himself, even in his car. EVERY citizen has the right to own a weapon without the permission of the county gun board. you can conceal a weapon ANYWHERE IN YOUR HOME YOU WISH. and a car is an extension of your home. as an ex law enforcement officer, i know the perils of walking up to a car where you don't know whether or not the occupants are armed. if an officer walks up to a car and ISN'T looking for weapons, he needs to start selling ice cream for a living. it's not the average citizen that's going to shoot him, it's the criminals. i've even known a few 'average citizens' to come to my aid a time or three.

I perdict the number of deaths due to gunshot wounds sky rockets over the next 12 to 24 months as any criminal now has the right to simply say, "I had an honest fear my life was in danger" and had an open license to kill for any reason. The prosecution now has the burden of proving his statement false when in the past, it was the shooter that had to explain why they needed to shoot to kill as a private citizen. The law passed on Oct. 1st, 2006 and it reads "anywhere" that a person has a legal right to be, not just in their home. This should alarm you! We are now back in the wild, wild, west in Michigan.

not here, not in any of the other states where similar laws have passed. look it up.

not read the new law. criminals are STILL treated as criminals. simply because you are 'victorious' in a shooting situation doesn't mean that you are right. it will still be investigated. the law has been in effect now for a while, have the shootings gone up? even a little?

Statistics have consistently shown for major felonies that such laws will NOT deter or detour true criminals from acting. It has little to no impact upon a true criminal mind who will act regardless what laws are in place or not in place.

this law has passed. it is in place. the only thing missing is the .45 muzzle between the would-be murder's teeth.

was that violence will INCREASE, not whether or not it will decrease. this bill simply reinforces your rights to defend yourself legally.

legislation is not to deter, or detour, but to allow citizens to effectively defend themselves against murdering attackers. the "deterrent effect" will be seen when more and more murdering criminals who attack law abiding citizens are effectively and efficiently removed from society, permanently.

My fiance went to our neighbors house to discuss a barking dog situation. Upon leaving the home, (3) large men came out of the house next door abd got in his face and threatened "We'll kick your a** all over this street", We'll f***you up", "You're gonna die pal". My fiance happens to be a CCW holder in the state of Michigan so in his defense, he brandished his weapon and said "Well, you'll have to go through this". A few hours later, he is facing 2 felony charges (Felonious assault and felony firearms). He was put in jail for 48 hours and given a $20,000 bond. Upon posting bond, we hired an attorney for $5,000. We went to the Pre-exam and to a hearing on Tuesday. The PROSECUTING attorney stated that she wanted to get these charges dropped as my fiance has no prior record. Unfortunately, the "victims" do not want to drop the charges. The attorney has let us know that they want paperwork on his gun (the police never took the gun), medical records, etc., AND they MAY drop the charges completely if we move out of home of 15 years! My fiance is disabled as he has plates and screws that hold his back together as well as severe narrowing of his vertabrate in his neck. We have been told that he should have turned and walked away! His physicans have warned him for years that should he fall, or suffer a blow to the back or neck, it could paralyze him. He was defending himself against an attack. His CCW training has taught him that if a threat is within 20 feet of you, you have the right to defend yourself. So, what's wrong with this picture? We loose our home over a barking dog and some neighbors that had no right to get involved! My fiance defends himself against possible bodily harm and now he faces charges! The "Victims" are contesting that one man calmly approached my fiance and said "you shouldn't talk to the old lady". Then he says that my fiance said "I'll kill you" as he brandished his weapon. The courts are believing these lies and it is outrageous! I saw these three men approach him and point directly in his face....I saw him backing up away from them as they kept coming towards him. Nobody wants to hear what I saw....they just think that moving MAY get the charges dropped. Does anybody have any advise or direction that they can give me. I don't know what to do anymore! We have written letters of apology explaining that he was trained in self-defense, we have had all of our neighbors write letters about how my fiance is an upstanding citizen, we have talked until we are blue in the face. Now, all I can do is cry! If you have any advise, please email me at pobrien@talkamerica.net. We have another court date on November 27 and a hearing before the gun board on November 13. Thanks for listening!

this bill has passed into law.

I feel for you. My family too was the victim of an over zealous court and prosecutor. They are all the same, groupies and in the wallets and sometimes, each others bedrooms. It's all about ego, prosecutors these days, just look at the recent event on the person wrongfully convicted of killing the LCC instructor. Prosecutor's use the misfortune and often wrongful accusation of innocent people to further their careers. I agree with the positive changes taking place that permit us to defend ourselves because you can't count on the police anymore. However, I've learned, as a good citizen and CCW holder to no longer get involved. It's hard to turn an eye but unless it's life threatening, I won't lose my family our home to help someone any longer. I'll die protecting my family but for the drunk driver or wack job walking down the road, my cell phone doesn't call 911 anymore. I sincerely hope the Lord works His miracles in your case and that the truth will be known. My prayers for you and your family.

Just to update you, today, we went to court and found out that although the prosecutor;s office wanted to drop all charges - the gun board is now involved and refuses to drop the felony charges. I am also loosing confidence in our attorney but since we do not have another $5,000 I guess I will just have to keep him on his toes throughout the rest of this ordeal. You are absolutely right though - we are no longer the neighborhood watch people and unfortunately, no matter what - I will NOT get involved!

getting involved with an ongoing criminal trial? they are not a law enforcement agency.

I think that michigan has to step up with the times. we here as the people of florida are immune from all civil liability if the shooting is found to be justified and all that is needed for this is the investigation to come up with a clean report. I travel back and forth from fla. to mich. all the time and i always wonder what will happen to me here in michigan if im forced to make a tough choice, in fla. we dont ask questions, take out the person who is the threat and call it a day

here, you will almost never get a 'clean shoot' ruling.

I defently agree on this bill. I am a marine and one of our sayings is better to be escorted by 2 than carryed by 6. I will never try to "flee" if someone broke into my home. i might get away, but what if my kid or my wife. Ill flee to the gun safe.

PErx7M

interesting site man

interesting post thx

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get a jury trial, The stand your ground law is in your favor.But next time remember if you pull it out you better use it....Signed U.S.M.C

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I feel that this law that was passed is right. When a person is at a family members home and a family member shoves or hit's a person they shell be intitled to defend themself's by force even if there is no visiable marks on the person defending themself . I agree that people in this situation should stand his/her ground.

 

   I am a law abiding citizen,  never have been arrested,  I have no record,  and I respect the laws of the land.  My history is squeaky clean.  

   Recently,  I was threatened with physical violence by my girlfriend's son.  He doesn't live at our house and hasn't in 5 years.  He crashed through the front door,  confronted me,  and then went back outside.  I locked the doors,  and he tried to regain entry while he again threatened me.  I called the police.   I then loaded my shotgun,  awaiting he and his friends to enter the house.  I verbally warned him that I was armed and he should leave and that the police were on their way.  I'm not sure whether he heard me,  but if he had came through that door...I would have shot him.  They got into their vehicles and left before the police arrived.  I believe that this law is very good for us "law abiding" citizens.  I feel safe and protected in my home with this law.

   I now keep my weapons loaded and ready for use.  There are no small children about the home,  so the weapons are safe.  Though,  I do not wish to have to use them.  I will first shout a warning to an intruder,  and only fire when there is no other alternative.  The deputies informed me that I had that right under Michigan Law.  Criminals should be aware that citizens DO have the right to use deadly force if needed.  Keep your doors locked at ALL times.  Exercise your right to defend yourselves and do not be affraid to use deadly force...your life may depend on it!  I felt that mine did.

 good for you, bird'o'prey.

you survived the lesson.

next step, concealed carry permit.

and working to change the gun laws so that we never need a permit to protect ourselves again.

 

 Thanks crazycajun.  All too often people are attacked and killed in their own homes.  I will not be a statistic.  I've also posted warning signs on the front and back of the house stating that "USE OF DEADLY FORCE AUTHORIZED".  The guns are oiled,  powder is dry,  and I won't leave my gaurd down again.  I also carry my "Rambo" knife strapped on while around the house.  It's a dog eat dof world out there.  Protect yourself at all times!  Keep your eyes peeled.  Be vigilant.

  We must make a stand against intruders.  We must defend our rights.  With that,  comes great responsibilty.  

 your next step is to make sure that everyone in your home knows what the weapons are, what they are there for (that they are not toys) and, when responsible enough, how to use them.

you must train not only yourself, but each and every member of your family.

it CAN be the most fun you have with your family. i know my daughter really appreciates the QUALITY TIME we spent together at the range. she went on to shoot competitively, and had a blast doing it.

we also occasionally go hunting together. everything from rabbits and squirrels to deer, turkey,  and alligators. depending on whats on the menu.