Michigan Votes Forum

when the people have no right to do things with which others disagree, or think unsafe. there is no law now that says the taxpayers must pay for any damages anyone recieves no matter what the source of those injuries. hospitals are not going to go broke as long as they charge $30.00 for an aspirin, and $50.00 for a tylenol. now, it's the liberals idea that we all need to be taken care of, and it's the liberals idea that anyone with money (read that as anyone who pays taxes) should foot the bill. those are the main reasons most people vote republican. we are all for personal responsibility. allow us to be responsible for ourselves.

are more head injuries incurred by those in automobiles than those who ride motorcycles? who should be wearing helmets now?

No one is asking you to pay for a damn thing. My insurance rates are less in Colorado than they were in Michigan -- even when we still had the No-Fault garbage -- and Colorado has not had any helmet law since the '70's. I am so sick and tired of dumbasses spouting this nonsense about how everyone will end up in the poor house because a guy might ride a motorcycle without some stupid piece of plastic on his head. "...I'm not willing to pay for...." Wake up. Jim Arvada, CO

We need more like you here...Great Post

Why do you think I left? Well...the weather for one. Broken pavement, for another. The chronic mess that is Detroit. But union-inspired, democRat non-think is right up there. I was raised in and around Detroit. Graduated MCCC and WSU. Married on Mackinac Island. I've camped, fished and canoed throughout the state. Michigan will always be my home...but it's just f'n hopeless: The state continues to spiral downward. There a number of reasons for it, but how on Earth does anyone think that the Michigan will benefit from more taxes and less services? Hasn't anyone heard of New Jersey? Actually, New Jersey could provide the basis for Detroit's new motto: "At least we're not Newark." Little bit of an off-topic rant, there. Sorry. Jim Arvada, Co

is not your home if you don't live here. If you left because you find the state "hopeless," those of us who decided to stay and try making things better say bye, bye, and don't let the door tag your behind on the way out. In other words, good riddance to quitters. Sorry to be so blunt. But cut-and-run types aggravate me.

Yeah, maybe. Maybe not. Regardless, I do expect my remaining property interest in Michigan to terminate within the next couple of weeks. I will also likely be ending my contract status with my one Michigan client corporation. Although family ties will, of course, continue, my business connection to the state appears to be coming to an end. If and when it does, I suppose that the "good riddance" will be mutual. Jim Arvada, CO

reply. if you don't like it, leave. that's one less taxpayer you just waved goodbye to. one less person to help dig this state out of the pit the dumbocrats have placed it in over the years. i have to admit that even the republicans aren't doing to hot of a job right about now, but at least they aren't coming up with new taxes and fees every few minutes. and they aren't talking about releasing prisoners all over the place either.

people, and hundreds of businesses have left michigan. is this state FULL of quitters? this state QUIT caring about businesses a long time ago when it started taxing them out of existance. this state QUIT caring about the common citizen a long time ago when it stopped trusting them to be able to live their own lives. this state QUIT caring about the infrastructure that the people paid for a long time ago, that's why it QUIT maintaining it.

You are completely wrong. I'm not one of those "if you don't like it, leave it" types. I'm of good stock that has the old real American ethic of "if you don't like it, stand and try to fix it." Never had any use at all for quitters and cut-and-run types.

The people who decided to stay in Michigan aren't the quitters. They're stand-uppers. It's the cut-and-run tyopes who have left who are quitters. Not at all admirable.

"good riddance" from a cut-and-runner hardly stands as condemnatioon of anything.

on click on detroit.com. They have a site set up right now to "ask the governor" your question or just state your beef. I read them all and I can happily say someone even brought up RECALL !! Jump in there with me suppressed !!!

the rats are usually the last to leave a sinking ship. are they admirable?

where was the admirable vigilance that allowed this mess to get this far? to 'stand and try to fix it' works fine, if the problem is caught early. all you can do now is hope that a solution CAN be found, and IF one can be found, that the legislature and the government at large have the wisdom and the fortitude to actually carry that solution out. maybe if the problem had been addressed EARLIER, it COULD have been fixed by the 'stay and try to fix it' crowd.

tried to avoid this situation by not voting for Grand-mole the first time around. THEN, we tried to fix it by not voting for her again this last time. And for those who say stick around and try to fix this, or ride it out, well, that takes money and time, and a lot of us don't have either anymore.

people who have left Michigan in search of what they believe to be better opportunity for themselves elsewhere. More power to them. I wish them success. That's the American way. I am critical of the cut-and-runners who leave in a huff and then somehow find it necessary to snipe at the place they left of their own accord, blaming this or that or the other thing for the decision they made, trying to act as if they didn't make their own decision and choice, trying to create scapegoats to explain their own lack of integrity and fortitude, criticizing those who have enough backbone to stay and try to make better things happen. Cut-and-runners like that are undignified crybabies who have nothing constructive to offer or bring to the table. They are not the kind of people who built America. They are not the kind of people who will rejuvinate Michigan. They are not the kind of people I want for neighbors.

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She continues to do what she does best, absolutely nothing. Way to go Michigan!

you have things absolutely bass-ackwards Classically, it is understaood that rats rush to be first in line to desert a ship that finds itself in a hard way. That's why they are viewed as despicable. Of course, like most cut-and-runners, the rats like to think they are superior to those loyal, admirable and dignified folks who choose to stay with the ship and bring her home intact.

YOU have it wrong. rats leave last. it takes a liberal to believe he knows what rats think.

exactly the kind of people YOU elect to SOLVE the problems of michigan. jennie has a job, thousands in michigan don't. jennie can't blame engler anymore, it's been four years of HER WATCH, and nothing has even been STARTED on the 'cleanup' you keep spouting on about. show me where she has EVEN TRIED to do something. T.I.S. is NOT the problem, the CRIMINALS are the problem. but as liberals, you are not allowed to admit that. jennie's "solution" to prison overcrowding is to release criminals. this shows that she cares more about the criminal than she does you. or don't you see that?

people not wearing helmets is NOT THE PROBLEM, JENNIE PICKING UP THE BILL FROM THE INSURANCE COMPANIES IS THE PROBLEM. jennie's solution to the motorcycle helmet problem is to disobey the will of the people, and veto this bill. it's also to make YOU believe that it's a good idea for the state to subsidize the medical profession for injuries the state didn't cause, and the insurance companies don't want to pay for. she doesn't want to fix the ills of this state, she wants to CONTROL THE PEOPLE OF THIS STATE in as many ways as possible. she has already shown her contempt for the will of the people on this issue. if given enough time, she will show her contempt for the will of the people on MANY issues. yet, the simple minded democrats keep right on electing her. believing her promises and hoping she doesn't cut THEIR programs. i'd like to personally thank each and every democrat that voted for jennie TWICE for putting us in the situation we are in now. p.s. sorry for splitting this thread up.

rats cut and run first -- that's just the way it is doesn't matter whether they are liberal rats or conservative rats or middle-of-the-road rats. rats is rats. they scoot and scatter when the going gets tough and then snipe at those who have the guts to hang in there.

love your own opinion, don't you? you are certainly never going to give up your point of view any time soon. you just hang in there, let the legislature keep doing what it's doing, and just let the state go to hell around you while you ignore what is happening and keep right on thinking that you are right. SMART people abandon ship. RATS and idiots stay till after the water has washed over the decks. the time to fix the problems of this state were long ago. you haven't even gotten around to admitting that there is a problem. you just stand there. give my regards to the rats.

1. a michigander never admits to being wrong. 2. if you prove a michigander wrong, you will be asked, nay ordered, to leave michigan post haste. 3. those that leave michigan because they are fed up with the other michiganders are deemed quitters. 4. a true michigander picks and chooses the worst possible politician in every circumstance. 5. a true michigander will only pay attention to their elected representitives long enough to complain about them, not to vote them out.

love your own opinion, don't you? especially when it's based in falsehood!

what part is false? come on, be specific.

80 of those have to do with taxes. most of those are TAX INCREASES. NOT ONE of them promises to get michigan out of the hole jennie has us in. give my regards to the rats too.

Read 'em again, dumbass. I "condemned" no one. That's all you, bubba. I don't post on topics that are unique to Michigan or it's nepotistic bureaucracies (except for that stupid crap about naming a "bird of peace," which was just completely ridiculous). I do post regarding issues that reflect national trends in stupidity, including the continued fantasty on which motorcycle helmet legislation has been built. With that connection, another participant in this site asked me to move to "Michiganistan." I responded with a short paragraph or two about some of the reasons I left. In reply, you have gone off on whole chain about cut-and-runners and rats leaving sinking ships? Idiot. Jim Arvada, CO

Mr. Cut-And-Runner who posts about Michigan issues from Colorado, then wear it. You decided to run away. Be a standup guy for a change -- take responsibility for your choice and quit carping about things that no longer are your business. Quit trying to interfere with the business of people who made a different choice by staying and trying make things better where they live.

like Jim from out west here. He understands the way things work better than most michganistan voters. I would vote for him for governor.

Was a Michigander. He decided to leave in search of what he thought was better opportunity elsewhere. No problem there. That's the American way. It is even applaudable. But Jim can't move on with his life. Nope. He sits out there in Colorado, which he tells us is te Land of Milk and Honey, and snipes at Michigan, continues to involve himself in the business he left behind. That makes him an interloper. He never has anything constructive to say about Michigan or the people who love here -- all negative complaints. That's what makes him offensive. That's what makes him a carper who cut and ran when things got tough. Not the kind of fella that makes a good neighbor or community member at all.

ok, mr. stand-up guy. when do the changes start happening? when do YOU start to make changes? all i see is more "same old-same old" from the politicians you and your 'stand-up' buddies re-elected. i'm wondering why no one is 'standing-up' and demanding some results from their elected officials? i'm wondering why no one 'stood-up' earlier, and demanded that these problems be solved while they were still 'manageable'? all your talk about being a 'stand-up guy' is all well and good, except that you didn't 'stand-up' for anything either, did you?

and standing up for what I believe in. what are you doing, whiner?

up. whoopie... while you're up, get me a beer. if you 'stand up' and let the problems continue, then you are NOT DOING ANYTHING ABOUT THEM. in other words, you ARE standing up, but you ARE NOT fixing the problem. it seems to me that standing up is FAR more important to you than ACTUALLY FIXING THE PROBLEM.

But I’m not merely standing around throwing a lot of rhetorical bombs at people. That’s your specialty. I'm standing tall. I do constructive things, like: Go to work every day, to do productive tasks for my employer and support myself and my family. I help create, build and maintain what economy we have. No government or politician can do that. No rhetorical bomb thrower can do that. Actively participate in local community affairs, politically and otherwise on a fairly broad front. I look for practical ways to address community issues. There are few dramatic breakthroughs. Patience, persistence and perseverance are necessary. The result is that my community remains a decent, safe and attractive place to live. Actively support local politicians who behave responsibly and are willing to provide leadership that serves the community interests. I actively oppose non-leaders who slavishly toe party lines and allow themselves to be buffaloed by abusive and usually partisan loudmouths who do nothing but throw rhetorical bombs. Actively engage my neighbors in a positive way, ginning up support for constructive ideas and activities that will maintain or improve the decent quality of life we enjoy in our community. I encourage active, open participation, not passive acceptance. I try to discourage destructive sniping by encouraging people to openly and actively engage and seek workable, positive solutions to issues that concern them. Vote responsibly by becoming well informed and making my own, independent judgments regarding issues and candidates at all levels. Regardless of election outcomes (whether “my” candidate or issue wins or not) engage my elected representatives and appointed or civil service officials at the state level. This helps maintain my voice in respect to a wide range of issues and state government activity that directly or indirectly affects my community and me. Sometimes what gets doner is what I think is right, sometimes it isn't. But I keep on plugging away. Real commitment to ideas and ideals forms a basis for constructive action. Patience, persistence and perseverance are necessary. Clarity of vision doesn’t hurt.

long time to say that you voted for the people who caused this mess in the first place, and that you 'kept them engaged' in doing what they were doing to screw things up. you work hard at your job, but sit idly by while new and different taxes and fees are piled one upon the other, with nary a peep out of you. you seem more concerned that your politicians 'don't toe the party line' than whether or not your politician is going to impose their will over the will of the people. you must have been awfully disappointed when NONE of the politicians have done what you voted them in for. i know i have. it doesn't help to send e-mails to a politician who has a deep seated NEED to raise taxes and lower services. it does help to send them packing. sometimes just being a 'stand up guy' isn't enough. sometimes you have to decide to stand for something. i'm not sure what you stand for, but it doesn't seem to be much different than we have for government now.

Actively participate in local community affairs, politically and otherwise on a fairly broad front. [so far, so good. i'd like to hear your definition of 'fairly broad front'.] I look for practical ways to address community issues. [do you think that releasing prisoners is a practical way to address the issue of truth in sentencing?] There are few dramatic breakthroughs. Patience, persistence and perseverance are necessary. The result is that my community remains a decent, safe and attractive place to live. [some of the 'practical' responses to local problems sort of scare me. mandatory gun registration to respond to local increases in crime. random stops and searches of any vehicle on the road to respond to the drunk driver problem. mandating the taking of a relatively untested vaccine to respond to the cervical cancer problem. you seem to have no problem with these 'practical' responses.] Actively support local politicians who behave responsibly and are willing to provide leadership that serves the community interests. [i don't know what community you live in, but there are very few of those sorts of politicians, especially at the state level.] I actively oppose non-leaders who slavishly toe party lines and allow themselves to be buffaloed by abusive and usually partisan loudmouths who do nothing but throw rhetorical bombs. [now, which side of the partisan rhetoric do you fall on? there are only two. so far, more of the 'non-leaders' toe the left side of the rhetorical line, and i take it that you do too. as they seem to get a 'pass' from you." Actively engage my neighbors in a positive way, ginning up support for constructive ideas and activities that will maintain or improve the decent quality of life we enjoy in our community. [so, which of the above lists did you actively support?] I encourage active, open participation, not passive acceptance. [yet you passively accept that which comes from the legislature.] I try to discourage destructive sniping by encouraging people to openly and actively engage and seek workable, positive solutions to issues that concern them. [so releasing prisoners is a workable, positive solution to the issue of truth in sentencing? registering handguns (twice) is a workable, positive solution to crime? violating people's fourth amendment rights is a workable, positive solution to drinking and driving?] Vote responsibly by becoming well informed and making my own, independent judgments regarding issues and candidates at all levels. [so, did you independently vote for jennie, or for devos?] Regardless of election outcomes (whether “my” candidate or issue wins or not) engage my elected representatives and appointed or civil service officials at the state level. This helps maintain my voice in respect to a wide range of issues and state government activity that directly or indirectly affects my community and me. [so, i take it by that last statement, that your voice was in support of the increased taxes and decreased services we are seeing now?] sir, my patience with being lied to by the most recent crop of politicians in lansing is at an end. i'm all for holding them responsible for positive changes, and for sending them packing when they don't. it's only been a short while, and it's ALREADY time to send the lot of them packing. you seem content to wait and see what other indignities they can subject the voting michigander to.

Questions and flame shooting, we see. Same old stuff from you, different minute.